Rate the Unit, Day 37: Nino

[Lord Raven]

From personal experience, I simply couldn't disagree more. Nino is, without question, the best exp. sponge you have late-game.

sure i could make use of a sponge when draining the sink does me so much better

Your point about a "surplus" seems to me to be based less on experience and more on theorycraft, which is often very unreliable.

read my edit

EDIT: 20 levels surplus, nino gained 9 levels (ie not necessary) and Nino received 7 levels and at 31x he's hit the HHM requirements with 14 extra levels to spare. kindly inform me, what strawman?

also inform me what theorycraft i am proposing

Not all of us are perfect; not all of us have the patience to RNG-abuse every chapter of the game, squeezing every last drop of experience out of each encounter.

nobody did you

Because Nino is so damn good at what she does, she affords the player with flexibility, letting him play a little looser-- and, consequently, makes the run easier.

there's already enough flexibility as is

At the end of the day, I feel I've justified my 9.9/10 ranking as legitimate, and would hope that the Serenes community extends respect towards those who disagree with the majority view. :B):

ah so you are rating her 9.9/10 to be a tool, i get it, interesting maneuver Edited January 26, 2012 by Narga_Rocks

[Geriba]

sure i could make use of a sponge when draining the sink does me so much better

Fallacy of false analogy. Sorry, but if you're going to want to convince anyone of your position, you'll have to do a heck of a lot better.

read my edit

also inform me what theorycraft i am making

The two examples you quoted are from Serenes Forest members, one of which was Emperor Donny himself; hardly representative of a typical S-Rank run, wouldn't you say? Besides, there's an inherent bias in your position: if you think the best course of action is to go heavy on the experience early, and then ease up later on, I could say the exact opposite.

The most correct approach, as usual, is a middle-ground approach: most people aren't going to be reaching dondon-levels of perfection during the earlygame, and Nino saves many players from a headache and a half against the most challenging rank of all.

nobody did you fuck

Please tone down the flamboyant language, thank you.

there's already enough flexibility as is

Not in my experience. But if you want to use dondon as the archetype for a "normal S-Rank run," then I suppose you're entitled to your (rather bizarre) standard.

ah so you are a tool, i get it

[General Horace]

Raven, you also have to remember that dondon and Bal aren't exactly your everyday Fire Emblem player. I agree that EXP is the toughest rank to 5* for ranked play for the everyday player, but Nino definately doesn't contribute more to the exp than say, Erk. Theoretically, Erk contributes more due to his lower base level.

EDIT: Semi-ninjad'

Edited January 26, 2012 by General Horace

[Blitz]

for speed runs

.5/10

for support runs

9.5/10

thus the average

5/10

[uguu]

11/10

IIRC, availability itself isn't necessarily counted here, correct? If trained to 20/20, which requires literally no effort if you're even vaguely competent, even in HHM, she's super amazing, and with that speed she even beats Athos. Her only problem is that she can't use Luna, the best weapon in the game since using it could one round the dragon, but even despite that she's amazingly amazing~. I gave her an extra point for being such a sexy little girl!

[Geriba]

Raven, you also have to remember that dondon and Bal aren't exactly your everyday Fire Emblem player. I agree that EXP is the toughest rank to 5* for ranked play for the everyday player, but Nino definately doesn't contribute more to the exp than say, Erk. Theoretically, Erk contributes more due to his lower base level.

EDIT: Semi-ninjad'

Thanks for the more respectful reply. I know this wasn't addressed to me directly, but there's something worth pointing out. While Erk could theoretically contribute "more" to the experience rank thanks to his earlier recruitment, a) there's a good deal more competition for those earlygame kills, and b) experience is easier to come by early. What Nino lacks in raw experience numbers, she makes up for by being a niche unit with a specific job, one that's largely uncontested, which serves as serious leverage for those who have fallen behind.

[uguu]

Yeah, and Nino really is the only low leveled unit who could be used for exp rank lategame! She's truly greater than Marcus, that piece of shit~

[Shadow Mir]

Ugh... This is really getting out of hand...

[Geriba]

Yeah, and Nino really is the only low leveled unit who could be used for exp rank lategame! She's truly greater than Marcus, that piece of shit~

She's by far and away the best, no question.

[xblade]

lol did i start this

[13th]

lol did i start this

Simple answer:No. I did.

Edited January 26, 2012 by 13th

[Elieson]

Yeah, and Nino really is the only low leveled unit who could be used for exp rank lategame! She's truly greater than Marcus, that piece of shit~

I respectfully disagree with this. Keep in mind that Rank runs have more than one component to fulfill. EXP, being the more difficult to achieve ranking, doesn't completely disregard the other ranking criteria. I do ask, in your opinion, does Nino's potential (though not required) EXP contribution really outweight the contribution of all the other units in the entire game?

Sure, I see your point as Marcus not being able to provide as much EXP to the EXP rank, but still, units like Florina, Lucius, Kent, Sain, and even Lowen would contribute so much more to EXP over time, than Nino does in the last few chapters of the entire game (as well as towards the Combat rank, since Nino has to be fed kills for her early levels).

lol did i start this

PeppyHare posted the first high rating for Nino, but you initiated the defense of such high ratings.

[BBHood217]

I have been waiting for this day :3

Nino is the BEST UNIT EVER. With all the high-level enemies surrounding her, you can bet her levels will skyrocket in no time. And with such amazing growths, she'll definitely turn into a killing machine every single time. No one else deserves Excalibur more than her.

9001/10

...........

...in modes other than HHM.

Alright, even I have to confess. Doing the above is probably nigh impossible in HHM.

Actual rating: 3/10

[uguu]

I respectfully disagree with this. Keep in mind that Rank runs have more than one component to fulfill. EXP, being the more difficult to achieve ranking, doesn't completely disregard the other ranking criteria. I do ask, in your opinion, does Nino's potential (though not required) EXP contribution really outweight the contribution of all the other units in the entire game?

Sure, I see your point as Marcus not being able to provide as much EXP to the EXP rank, but still, units like Florina, Lucius, Kent, Sain, and even Lowen would contribute so much more to EXP over time, than Nino does in the last few chapters of the entire game (as well as towards the Combat rank, since Nino has to be fed kills for her early levels).

Combat rank is worthlessly un-notably easy, who cares? Also, obviously, Nino is the only unit who matters enough to be given enough exp to reach level 20/20, therefore the exp obtained by any other single unit cannot be claimed as relatively notable!

[xblade]

in my other post it was decent and by decent i mean half good

[Balcerzak]

oh and be honest, you all play for end of game ratings, so i understand how nino can be useless, but if you have gone through casual how many of you have actually have trained her

Nino was invaluable to experience rank... in EHM (she made it all the way to 20/9, and I only passed the XP rank by ~300 there). In fact, on EHM I would probably rate her a 6/10 with that in mind.

HOWEVER Cog of Destiny losing the armors for magic users, and thus eliminating the additional easy training really hurts her, in addition to the bug in the coding providing free chapters with 0 XP requirement to pad on your ranks better than anything Nino could do. (Underlevelled Guy in Value of Life, anyone?)

As this is a HHM rating, I would be hard pressed to give her anything above a 3/10.

1 point for hitting Res, 1 point for constant 1-2 range, and 1 point for being cute as a button.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Balcerzak

[Rewjeo]

So, because I don't want to reply in detail to everything that has been said, Nino handing you up to 34 levels out of however many that you need in ranked runs, never mind all the other areas she doesn't help and in all of the playthroughs she doesn't help in adds up to a 9.9? She is not even *that* helpful for the EXP rank, as has been shown.

And as for other things, like not being that good once leveled, 20/20 Pent, in comparison, has all the SPD he could want for most enemies, does plenty of damage, and actually better physical durability. Never mind when she's level 5 and has 5 MOV and low damage output. The difference between Pent and Nino is 1500 EXP in exchange for help with the other rankings. Ultimately, it's entirely possible to make up for the advantages either of them have in a ranked run, but Nino has nothing to contribute outside of one that is objectively quantifiable.

[Thor Odinson]

Maaaaan.

Counting votes will be a pain in the ass this time.

Please let it not be this crazy with Jaffar and the others later.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Nino was invaluable to experience rank... in EHM (she made it all the way to 20/9, and I only passed the XP rank by ~300 there). In fact, on EHM I would probably rate her a 6/10 with that in mind.

This, this, this, this...holy crap, this. I had the same problem with experience in EHM. However, I was also seeing how fast I could beat it while S-ranking it, so no FFO arena abuse. Nino is nice when you need to squeeze every last drop of experience from your army -- plus, EHM has a crapload of knights/generals right away. Have Merlinus lure a couple away, stick Nino on a forest tile, and watch her go from 13/-- post NoF to 20/1 in like 3-4 turns. However, EHM is not HHM...in EHM, I'd give her probably a 6/10-7/10 for S-rank runs.

HOWEVER Cog of Destiny losing the armors for magic users, and thus eliminating the additional easy training really hurts her, in addition to the bug in the coding providing free chapters with 0 XP requirement to pad on your ranks better than anything Nino could do. (Underlevelled Guy in Value of Life, anyone?)

Basically, this. It's notably harder (but I still think feasible...YES CLIPSEY I PROMISED YOU....I WILL DO THIS IN MY S RANK RUN) to train Nino in CoD, and 0 XP chapters (some of which....Value of Life and probably 19xx in particular...give nice experience) diminshing her benefit of EXP rank padding. When trained, though, she is the boss combat-wise; absolutely amazing and everything I'd want from a sage (alright, except staff rank).

Now if only combat wasn't so easy to get in FE7...

Anyways, I'm going to go the middle road here. I think her true rating should be between the 0/10 and 9/10s. I'll give her 4/10; low availability and a bitch to train, but my god does she blow shit up if you train her.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Geriba]

Maaaaan.

Counting votes will be a pain in the ass this time.

Please let it not be this crazy with Jaffar and the others later.

I really doubt it; Jaffar's boring filler (though I love him~), but Nino is the pinnacle of love-em-hate-em. I do hope you'll count my score if you're planning on counting the 1/10s and 0/10s, however.

[Junkhead]

1/10 better than wallace

Wallace can take a hit.

I give her a 2.

[Narga_Rocks]

I really doubt it; Jaffar's boring filler (though I love him~), but Nino is the pinnacle of love-em-hate-em. I do hope you'll count my score if you're planning on counting the 1/10s and 0/10s, however.

I think she means your trolling, as you used to call yourself Jaffar. You can't seriously belive she deserves to be above all the other units in the game (except whatever else you'd give a 9.9 or 10). I mean, you and Tang helped create the gamefaqs S rank tier lists for fe7 and did you ever try to push Nino up that high? I think your rating should be discounted based on the improbability of your views changing this much over just a year or two.

[Junkhead]

Oh, what. I thought he was just a silly new user.

Edited January 26, 2012 by gaw

[Elieson]

Wallace can take a hit.

Not really.

Have you tried to recruit Wallace?

[eclipse]

Geez. Ratings are srs bsns.

Anyway. . .it's not ridiculously HARD to feed someone kills (just look at what I did to Colm in a FE8 draft run), and not everything in 28x has Javelins. It's possible, but I can see how most people would say it takes too much effort. That being said, she can contribute, even a little, in 28x (where she does not take up a deployment slot). . .and unlike Wallace, you can tell her not to wander into range of everything that can kill her.

3/10, with an extra 1 being for her starting equipment (Pent appreciates an extra Elfire)

Edited January 26, 2012 by eclipse