Let's Localize the FE12 Cast

[Dark Sage]

This is a translation patch though. Obviously they're keeping the FE11 localized names for the reason that they don't want to confuse people accustomed to them, so if that's the case why don't they do the same with the translated FE3 names?

This is not supposed to be a patch for Blazer and the others to jerk off to their amateur attempts at localization.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Dark Sage

[dondon151]

This is a translation patch though. Obviously they're keeping the FE11 localized names for the reason that they don't want to confuse people accustomed to them, so if that's the case why don't they do the same with the translated FE3 names?

yes this is what i said like 8 months ago when this shit was going down

and no one's going to listen to you, sadly enough

Well Gemina is an actual name, but I'm not sure what Gebello is supposed to be...

maybe his name is supposed to be gevero

or actually it probably isn't and we should just use the goddamned commonly-used names

Edited March 31, 2012 by dondon151

[Parrhesia]

I don't honestly give a fuck what names are used

can we just get to the point where the game itself is actually being translated

[Dark Sage]

It probably would've been faster if they just kept the translated FE3 names fyi.

[Parrhesia]

I can't exactly deny that. It would've gone quicker if every single fucking decision made hadn't been repeatedly questioned, as well. Can they just make this thing a total dictatorship to the peanut gallery, make the damned thing, then release a text editor so I can have Vergil and you can have Lawrence?

[Dark Sage]

Hey if we're going to localization route of "rename the characters whatever the fuck we feel like", how about we translate Hardin as Murphy? Or Cecile as Saesiil, Luke as Ryusuke, Sirius as Srs, Marth as Bromancer, and Dice as Vergil?

Oh wait, that's because this route of localization is fucking stupid.

[Celice]

It would've gone quicker if every single fucking decision made hadn't been repeatedly questioned,

If a decision was made, being questioned doesn't slow anything down--the decision was already made. Last I checked, being worried over locking my door, after I locked my door an hour ago, didn't make my door lock any slower.

[Othin]

The way I see it, there is a very simple criteria for making a translation patch: When applying the patch, does it turn the game into one that could believably be the English version of the game NOA would make if they were to translate the game themselves, right now, and release it in America tomorrow?

If the answer is yes, then congratulations! You've successfully made a translation patch. Show it to the world.

If it contains names like "Yurius", the answer is no; you failed. Throw away the patch and never touch it again.

[Celice]

Too bad NoA had a habit of making names like Kieran, Rath, Marth, Brom, Florina staples. I guess they're going to have to try harder to create objectively good names for English localization.

[Othin]

Too bad NoA had a habit of making names like Kieran, Rath, Marth, Brom, Florina staples. I guess they're going to have to try harder to create objectively good names for English localization.

Where exactly did you obtain this delusion that you know a tenth as much about translating as do the people who do it professionally?

Clearly it's quite a good habit and entirely acceptable, within reasonable proportions.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Othin

[Celice]

If it contains names like "Yurius", the answer is no; you failed. Throw away the patch and never touch it again.

I just reiterated what you said with other names :) Unless you're stating that you're of the delusion that you know a tenth as much about translating as do the people who do it professionally?

[Darros]

Sirius as Srs

Needs to happen.

But seriously, if there's going to be a text editor, why are people so freaked about these damned names? When I found out there's going to be an editor, I stopped freaking out abouit Malliesia, because now I can change the chosen name back to what I like the most.

[Othin]

What I say is that I can recognize what the professionals do, recognize it as correct, and make inferences from that about what else might be correct.

I took all five of the names you pointed out and plugged them into Google, and immediately found many, many results involving the name being used for some real-world person, place, or other such thing. No such luck with Yurius. So clearly every one of your examples has thoroughly failed to be applicable.

Needs to happen.

But seriously, if there's going to be a text editor, why are people so freaked about these damned names? When I found out there's going to be an editor, I stopped freaking out abouit Malliesia, because now I can change the chosen name back to what I like the most.

Tell me, what would you think if NOA had translated Ike's name as "Eeek" and offered you a text editor so you could change his name to something like "Ike" if you so chose?

Edited April 1, 2012 by Othin

[Celice]

Same with Kevin, Chap, Lucea. They're all valid names, and they were all changed. You aren't trying to look at this in terms of winning an argument, are you? Selectively arguing only certain aspects seems to be a trend with you. . .

What I say is that I can recognize what the professionals do, recognize it as correct, and make inferences from that about what else might be correct.

you have no idea how much giggling this makes me have XD

[Othin]

Same with Kevin, Chap, Lucea. They're all valid names, and they were all changed. You aren't trying to look at this in terms of winning an argument, are you? Selectively arguing only certain aspects seems to be a trend with you. . .

In other words, there can be times when names that are meaningful in the Japanese can be changed regardless. This does not contradict anything I've said, and I assure you, it's been part of my philosophy on translations for long before this argument.

you have no idea how much giggling this makes me have XD

Care to elaborate?

I should mention that I would say, yes, I may well know a tenth or more of what the professional translators know about translating. But I know this because I learned it from observing and sometimes studying those same professional translations. It's clear that you use no such basis for your insistence that you know anything beyond jack shit on this matter.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Othin

[Celice]

It's not supposed to contradict you. Why are you trying to answer to things as if they are? This is a place of discussion, not rebuttals. Looking at things from all perspectives--not a singular argument--will give a wider view on how things like localization are explored. It's not a matter of negating one choice for the other if each are perfectly acceptable. And no, I don't care to elaborate. In many of your posts, you exemplify a boredom that I'd rather not interact with :/

I should mention that I would say, yes, I may well know a tenth or more of what the professional translators know about translating. But I know this because I learned it from observing and sometimes studying those same professional translations. It's clear that you use no such basis for your insistence that you know anything beyond jack shit on this matter.

Really? Despite the fact that I've translated Camus and Beckett for fun, study literature and follow how things are misinterpreted and changed in accidents, purposes, intentions--you're acting on a huge assumption. Along with "observing" as you have. Man, not many people come this close, but I'm almost about to ignore all your posts simply because they're so one-dimensional. I'm not even sure if you're aware of it or not.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Celice

[Dark Sage]

The reason why it's ok for the people in NoA to change the japanese names during localization is because they're basically the official localizers.

Take Pokemon for example. Suppose it was never released in the west. People would be referring them by their Japanese names. So in other words, you would refer to Charizard as Lizardon. Nobody would refer to the pokemon by some made up names come up with by amateur localizers who aren't even affiliated with Nintendo.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Dark Sage

[Othin]

Really? Despite the fact that I've translated Camus and Beckett for fun, study literature and follow how things are misinterpreted and changed in accidents, purposes, intentions--you're acting on a huge assumption. Along with "observing" as you have.

Now this is interesting. It sounds like we've learned some different things from our experiences.

It seems I may have been hasty in jumping to conclusions. If you've done all of this, then I see that your views on the matter are probably based on these experiences. If this is the case (as I'm sure it is), then would you be willing to share some things from those experiences that support your views? I say this with the sincerest curiosity, and with the feeling that if your experiences are as relevant as they sound, they may be able to bring us all to a greater understanding rather than constant conflicts between the multitudes of people with such different views from one another regarding translations.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Othin

[General Banzai]

Oh I'm so cool I translated Beckett even though he translated his own shit anyways

Hey if we're going to localization route of "rename the characters whatever the fuck we feel like", how about we translate Hardin as Murphy? Or Cecile as Saesiil, Luke as Ryusuke, Sirius as Srs, Marth as Bromancer, and Dice as Vergil?

That's not what I propose we do. I propose that we translate names and make localization changes only where it is obvious they should happen. For instance, I disagree with the "Belf to Vergil" crowd and instead think that something more along the lines of Belves should be chosen. Why? Not for some arbitrary reason but because "Belf" is similar to "Barf", something which directly contrasts the aristocratic character that "Belf" is supposed to be.

We are not proposing to make up random names for no reason. People like to strawman us as doing so, with lots of humor by making up completely ridiculous names (see quote above), but that's the opposite of what we're trying to do. The example of "Luke as Ryusuke" is what we're trying to avoid. Luke would be a name we wouldn't even touch. It's clearly what is meant, it makes sense in an English context; Ryusuke does not.

We're trying to turn Yurius into Julius, not the other way around.

[dondon151]

there's too much "what would jesus do" crap in this thread

what's wrong with keeping it simple

[Celice]

Oh I'm so cool I translated Beckett even though he translated his own shit anyways

Either you're purposely missing the relevancy of my stating, or you're bluntly unawares.

It's clear that you use no such basis for your insistence that you know anything beyond jack shit on this matter.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Celice

[TheEnd]

Where exactly did you obtain this delusion that you know a tenth as much about translating as do the people who do it professionally?

What I say is that I can recognize what the professionals do, recognize it as correct, and make inferences from that about what else might be correct.

I, for one, welcome our new translator overlords.

Take Pokemon for example. Suppose it was never released in the west. People would be referring them by their Japanese names. So in other words, you would refer to Charizard as Lizardon. Nobody would refer to the pokemon by some made up names come up with by amateur localizers who aren't even affiliated with Nintendo.

That depends, actually. Everyone knows Tales of Phantasia's characters by the names DeJap gave them... because the game was unknown before they translated it, the patch reached a rather broad audience, and awareness of the Japanese language wasn't nearly a keen as it is nowadays (the mere knowledge of katakana does wonders).

Edited April 1, 2012 by TheEnd

[Othin]

there's too much "what would jesus do" crap in this thread

what's wrong with keeping it simple

When a translation could not pass for an official one, it feels fake, disrupting immersion in the game or story. That is a huge loss.

For this sake, imitating the official translations becomes inherently good regardless of any merits they may or may not have relative to anything else.

[Crimson Red]

Dark Sage, if only you could have kept the silence, none of this debating would have happened, haha.

Also for the 100th time I'm not Japanese and I know so little about it I could probably type up everything I know in a one-page document size 10 font single-spaced, thus I don't go deciding the names or throw out possible names.

This is a translation patch though. Obviously they're keeping the FE11 localized names for the reason that they don't want to confuse people accustomed to them, so if that's the case why don't they do the same with the translated FE3 names?

This is not supposed to be a patch for Blazer and the others to jerk off to their amateur attempts at localization.

FE11 names = official

FE3 names =/= official

You're also forgetting that a lot of people haven't played Fire Emblem 3 so they aren't familiar with those names. Hell I only know a few people who have played FE3, and I'm not one of them. On the contrary, many, many more people have played FE11--and more normal/average people, not internet-goers who post around on Fire Emblem forums debating characters and tier lists like us not that I've ever done that stuff.

Blazer/Luffy only localizes text in that if there is an obvious grammatical or aesthetic error, he beats the shit out of it. Then he does hacking. I don't think you understand that this is not an official project. We aren't endorsed by anyone, we don't get paid, we only have the amount of authority we give ourselves, which I've had other people argue is not enough cough Furetchen. I don't translate shit, choose names (I give my 2 cents about what name might be good out of a list of possible names that I don't create, but that's nothing more than what you guys do), I do all the hacking and organizing shit that you won't ever notice or appreciate. Thus my role in this is minimal compared to say, TheEnd or Agromono. My point here is that you have to quit lumping someone me in the same category as the people who translate. Sure I explain decisions to you etc. all the time but I'm more or less only supporting others/relaying information unless I state otherwise.

@General audience, I think TheEnd and Agromono are better qualified than most people here at translating and localizing a Fire Emblem game, but if you still think it's amateur, that's too bad. My personal opinion, not even from the perspective of a member of the team, is that if you expect much better than someone's very best, you're being a spoiled, greedy, arrogant little... person who is too used to getting his way. No one better decided to help out, so if you think there are people who could do better, it's irrelevant, because they ultimately can't and aren't. People could argue I'm a terrible hacker and there should be someone better doing it, and I would agree 100%, but no one else is willing to/can, and no one else is, so we have to work with what we have. The reason why no one debates that is because hacking is more scientific and most of the time no one notices it so there's not nearly as much to debate as long as the job gets done.

Also, I've seen certain prevalent... "schools of thought" so to speak here, but I might have missed one, so for my own curiosity of knowledge, if you've seen another distinct group of thought, please let me know:

1) Keep to the FE3 names that the small portion of people who have played FE3 are used to.

2) Edit names, but only where necessary, and don't go outside of the realms of the kana.

3) Edit names, but if they need to be localized, like Yumina -> Gemina, or Belf -> Vergil, then do so, because they sound better and more realistic.

or actually it probably isn't and we should just use the goddamned commonly-used names

Commonly used... on a Fire Emblem forum, yeah. Sadly, other people besides the ones that go on SF and have played FE3 will be playing this hack, so for them, they don't have the "commonly-used names" thing. Thus when they see names that don't sound very good, they likely wouldn't understand that the only real reason to keep them was that other people used them in the past. Also, it's a bit too late to go this route anyway, so trying to bring this back is just beating around a dead-horse. We already kinda decided on #2 because it satisfies the most amount of people and most importantly makes the most sense. A lot of the names will be what they were, assuming they were fine as they were, and names that suck will be changed to be better, but not changed too much in that they aren't viable names given the kana since the translators aren't giving themselves the authority to localize names like an official translation/localization group.

And then the other people are the dissenting groups who hold firmly to their ideals, which is quite noble. Some of you would be great as politicans or something else, if for no other reason than I see the same qualities in many politicians and debaters (pride, stubbornness, and holding firm to your ideas) that I do in you guys. Well, just my opinion, anyway...

If a decision was made, being questioned doesn't slow anything down--the decision was already made. Last I checked, being worried over locking my door, after I locked my door an hour ago, didn't make my door lock any slower.

Mostly correct, except

1) that door might have multiple ways to lock it, and you might go back and choose another way

2) the time spent worrying about whether it's locked or not may not make locking the door slower, but you still lose time that could be spent on something else. back to the translating example, the time spent worrying--or posting here--might be better spent on hacking. The only reason we waste said time is that we think that someone might have something good to say here, so we check to see if something someone says can actually help us do a better job, in which case it wouldn't be a waste of time. Despite that we still get chastised for not listening to you guys, but that's life--we're not "listening" to anyone unless we literally play "Simon says" and do what you want us to (which is impossible with so many different opinions/ideas).

[Jubby]

This is a translation patch though. Obviously they're keeping the FE11 localized names for the reason that they don't want to confuse people accustomed to them, so if that's the case why don't they do the same with the translated FE3 names?

This is not supposed to be a patch for Blazer and the others to jerk off to their amateur attempts at localization.

This is just... Absolute horse shit. FE11's is FROM NINTENDO, it's a real localization that's been done by the actual creator company of the game already. Why the fuck would you use names from a game that's translated by fans when there's already OFFICIAL translations? That's the epitome of stupidity.

Edit: Also just wanna throw in the ever classic "they're translating it their way, if you don't like it make your own translation"~

Edited April 1, 2012 by Jubby