Rate the Unit, Day 11: Mist

[CrashGordon94]

9/10 to compensate for Snowy

Honestly, Mist is as good as you make her. If you don't invest anything, then yeah, she's probably around Rhys level. If you give her enough EXP to get her to 10 then promote her, you get a mounted healer with some very minor poking utility, but you have so much BEXP and chances are you won't need the promotion item for anyone else, so this is a bargain. Or you can invest somewhat heavily by giving her mostly uncontested resources such Arm Scrolls + SS, or more BEXP so she promotes at a more respectable level, and then you have someone who can blick almost any enemy when needed, kill weaksauce ones with leftover Steel forges, and otherwise provide heals and supporters.

You're always getting out of her what you put into her. Unless you're Crash, because Mist can't produce imaginary penises.

So more like 8.5/10.

This, pretty much.

Except the imaginary penises bit because I actually fantasize about her hooking up with other women.

[Narga_Rocks]

4/10

I don't dislike Mist by any means of the word. I actually quite like having another healer on the team at all times. However, there are two big problems I have with Mist that cause me to want to rate her lower.

1) She's a late-joining healer. She comes at chapter 9 at level 1. I refuse to spend BEXP on a staff-user and would rather spend seals on other units, meaning it will take her quite a long time to promote. People talk about how good she is when she promotes, but that won't be happening for a long time for me.

2) SS Mist is overrated. It takes one or two scrolls to even make it work in the first place once she promotes, and when it DOES happen I get a mounted mage for a timeframe that lasts as long as the SS does. Except mages can crit, Mist does not, and mages can replace their weapon in the event of something awful happening, Mist cannot.

It takes a lot of resources to make Mist good, and I don't like the end result. It's too little for too much. Besides, SS Mia can make the sword last longer anyways and isn't screwed once it comes out.

Plus, I will admit I'm docking her a point because I suspect people will grossly overrate her and I don't want to see her leaving this topic with more than a 7.5 (the upper-limit of how good she is as far as I am concerned). If this is REALLY a issue, make it a 5/10. Otherwise I would prefer the 4.

So, Rhys is worth a 9 and Mist a 5 -1(bias) for 4? Neat.

I'll admit I play slower than dondon, but I probably go around the same speed as snowy, if I had to guess. And at that speed, Mist gets to 20/1 with some bexp help sometime during chapter 17. Steel sword forge makes Mist at least not suck (2RKO stuff, often 3HKO but a 4HKO on stronger stuff and a lolKO on armors but at least she doubles) so I never even need to give her arms scrolls and she pulls off B by around chapter 24 or something (it's been like 5 years, give me a break if I can't remember). What I'm saying, is, it doesn't seem to take me any blatant favouritism to turn her into SS/RS Mist. So, 7/10, and if I'd cared about Rhys I'd have probably given him 6.5.

Except the imaginary penises bit because I actually fantasize about her hooking up with other women.

But wouldn't that eliminate the need for toys?

Edited April 6, 2012 by Narga_Rocks

[Loki Laufeyson]

But since she gains experience through staffs, she doesn't get exp any faster then hard. Maybe even slower since less healing is required.

Perhaps. But there is more BEXP to go around in other mode(s). ;) Hard mode, BEXP is a bit more contested. No, Mist isnt necessary to have on the team since Rhys or Soren a Sage with a staff does the same thing, but shes just fun to use to me anyway. I rated her the way i did because shes usually doing ok and by the time the Physic comes around, shes the only one who can use it. And Soren my Sages are too busy murdering to heal. ;)

[Snowy_One]

To be blunt, I'm not really impressed by Sonic Sword Mia AT ALL. 16 mag atk at 20/1 is anything but impressive in my book when enemy resistance - get this! - doesn't suck.

First off... No. While it is true that a untouched level 20/1 Mia will have 16 attack, it is stupid-easy to boost it up. The Mage-band alone will make that between 17-18 attack at 20/1 and that's not to mention Mia using supports.

Secondly, look at enemy RES. Sages/priests aside, in chapter 18 there isn't a single unit with more than 9 RES, most having ~6 RES. While it is true that Mia would fail to 1RKO at 16MT, she would leave the enemies with only a small amount of HP left (if any were wounded on the PP, they would likely die), and she has a 40-50% chance for a Crit anyways.

Thirdly, Mia only needs to deal about 14-15 damage or so to 2HKO. When Mia can 2HKO an enemy, she is outright better than Mist due to vantage (stopping the attack) and criticals (stopping if on the vantage and potentially saving weapon uses). With the mage band and a Rhys support Mia will be dealing that amount of damage for sure.

Fourthly. Mist NEVER gets to the point of dealing enough damage for a 1HKO. The most she could humanly deal would be 41 MT of damage in a single strike when she's capped magic and is getting +5 attack from supports. There are enemies who can withstand that almost as soon as you get the SS (and I doubt you could even have a Mist capable of dealing that amount of damage at that time without favoritism anyways, possibly even at all). So her higher MAG is nowhere near as meaningful as you think.

Fifthly. Once the SS breaks, Mist is useless. It would take a +5 support at her max level to just get her to 21 STR, nevermind if she has the weapon-rank or that she lacks any combat skills. Mia does not have that shortcoming. Even if one were to sandbag her down to an identical attack power, her crit boost and innate vantage more than carry the day outside of the SS.

If I were to use the SS, I would rather raise up Mia and get a flexible combat unit who can be very potent, than dote on a staff-user who can only fight as long as her only weapon doesn't break.

[CrashGordon94]

But wouldn't that eliminate the need for toys?

What need for toys? Mia and Jill have fingers and tongues, don't they?

[Narga_Rocks]

What need for toys? Mia and Jill have fingers and tongues, don't they?

I know it's only one post, but can't you at least put something on-topic in that post? For me?

[Sunwoo]

Why is Mia using the mage band? Why not put it on - oh, I don't know - a MAGE to make them gain magic faster?

Also, I play PoR at an extremely slow rate. I try to get all my characters that I'm using to 20/20. Even if I give Mist 300 BEXP every session and get her to heal as much as possible, it still takes her a while to promote. Also, I can't give all of my BEXP to Mist. What about my Marcia and Jill and other units I may be using, who might want that BEXP as well? Also, if we're really going to say "but Mist can fight with the Sonic Sword!" as an argument, you're going to want her at 20 before she promotes to make her deal decent damage.

Honestly, I'm not arguing that Mist can't be good because she can be. But what I see here is a lot of arguing for favoritism towards her! I can give any other character that amount of favoritism and make them be good, too. For example, I could give Rhys every physics map in the game (steal-able, buyable, findable, whatever), give him a speed band and speedwings, forge him a light tome with 1 weight, and call him "good". Or I could give Ilyana a forged thunder tome with 1 weight, a speed band, speedwings, defense-boosting items, make her use staves for every little thing, and call her "good". What is my point? Mist requires quite a bit of favoritism to be "good". A little too much, methinks. If we're going to use "favoritism" as an argument for Mist being good, what's stopping us from arguing the same for every other unit?

Edited April 7, 2012 by Jihyun

[Shadow Mir]

First off... No. While it is true that a untouched level 20/1 Mia will have 16 attack, it is stupid-easy to boost it up. The Mage-band alone will make that between 17-18 attack at 20/1 and that's not to mention Mia using supports.

Secondly, look at enemy RES. Sages/priests aside, in chapter 18 there isn't a single unit with more than 9 RES, most having ~6 RES. While it is true that Mia would fail to 1RKO at 16MT, she would leave the enemies with only a small amount of HP left (if any were wounded on the PP, they would likely die), and she has a 40-50% chance for a Crit anyways.

Thirdly, Mia only needs to deal about 14-15 damage or so to 2HKO. When Mia can 2HKO an enemy, she is outright better than Mist due to vantage (stopping the attack) and criticals (stopping if on the vantage and potentially saving weapon uses). With the mage band and a Rhys support Mia will be dealing that amount of damage for sure.

Fourthly. Mist NEVER gets to the point of dealing enough damage for a 1HKO. The most she could humanly deal would be 41 MT of damage in a single strike when she's capped magic and is getting +5 attack from supports. There are enemies who can withstand that almost as soon as you get the SS (and I doubt you could even have a Mist capable of dealing that amount of damage at that time without favoritism anyways, possibly even at all). So her higher MAG is nowhere near as meaningful as you think.

Fifthly. Once the SS breaks, Mist is useless. It would take a +5 support at her max level to just get her to 21 STR, nevermind if she has the weapon-rank or that she lacks any combat skills. Mia does not have that shortcoming. Even if one were to sandbag her down to an identical attack power, her crit boost and innate vantage more than carry the day outside of the SS.

If I were to use the SS, I would rather raise up Mia and get a flexible combat unit who can be very potent, than dote on a staff-user who can only fight as long as her only weapon doesn't break.

Mage Band? What Mage-- Oh, you mean the same Mage Band that's better used by, oh, I dunno, A MAGE!? And supports... Too bad Mia's supports are nothing special (or have better options).

And she 4HKOs most of those enemies with it. If you're relying on chance to save SS uses... Yer Doin It Wrong.

When's that going to happen... Oh wait, don't answer that, I'm capable of answering that myself. Probably when pigs fly (AKA, never).

I'm still convinced SS Mia's a cute gimmick and nothing else.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[CrashGordon94]

I know it's only one post, but can't you at least put something on-topic in that post? For me?

Actually I can't, my 3DS chokes on the edit button.

So have it here: You only really need to give Mist one Scroll for the Sonic Sword, 20 Steel Forge swings isn't too hard.

[Esaka]

Meh, you get what you expect out of Mist, by that I mean feed her bonus EXP for massive pony power.

7.5/10

[Anouleth]

So, Rhys is worth a 9 and Mist a 5 -1(bias) for 4? Neat.

I'll admit I play slower than dondon, but I probably go around the same speed as snowy, if I had to guess. And at that speed, Mist gets to 20/1 with some bexp help sometime during chapter 17. Steel sword forge makes Mist at least not suck (2RKO stuff, often 3HKO but a 4HKO on stronger stuff and a lolKO on armors but at least she doubles) so I never even need to give her arms scrolls and she pulls off B by around chapter 24 or something (it's been like 5 years, give me a break if I can't remember). What I'm saying, is, it doesn't seem to take me any blatant favouritism to turn her into SS/RS Mist. So, 7/10, and if I'd cared about Rhys I'd have probably given him 6.5.

I remember crunching the numbers once and calculating that if Mist heals every turn and you beat every chapter exactly on the BEXP turn limit she ends up around level 7 at Chapter 16. So I think you might be overrating her level. Every level she gets beyond 10 is coming straight out of your BEXP fund, and there's no point in giving her a single drop when you consider how mediocre the results are.

It might not "seem" like blatant favouritism, but it rarely does to the people who participate in it.

(oh and also that's not counting possibilities like if you do pacifist clears of 10 and 15, in which case she will likely gain no experience).

Edited April 7, 2012 by Anouleth

[Frosty]

She's the best staffer to boot in this game!

Apparently, despite of joining later than Rhys; her affinity is definitely in the money! Cause most of her supported units want that Water affinity.

You'll also need her during the Black Knight chapter.

Her combat may be meh, but once you get the Sonic Sword; or maybe Runesword later on, she's gonna wreck shit!

6.5

But she's on a pony... so... ABRA KADABRA BIAS POWERS kick it up to....

7.5

[PKL]

So, somehow SS mia's 17 mt is acceptable but 41 mt SS mist isnt? I know its not possible to have 41 mt at that point but just saying, that post is absurd. Im tempted to throw snowy's vote because it reeks of way too much bias and its not close to the average rating. What do u all think?

[Sunwoo]

So, somehow SS mia's 17 mt is acceptable but 41 mt SS mist isnt? I know its not possible to have 41 mt at that point but just saying, that post is absurd. Im tempted to throw snowy's vote because it reeks of way too much bias and its not close to the average rating. What do u all think?

PKL, my vote is only .5 higher than Snowy's (and I'm tempted to give her a 4/10 anyway), and no one else is complaining about me. He could have definitely explained himself better, but his argument is pretty much mine, just not as well worded, apparently. Go read mine if you don't believe me.

Edit: Also, I did not do bias points, so I truly believe she is 4-4.5, whereas Snowy took off a point for bias. Meaning that his FLAT, unbiased score is actually higher than mine. And once again, no one is complaining about me!

Edited April 7, 2012 by Jihyun

[Snowy_One]

Mage Band? What Mage-- Oh, you mean the same Mage Band that's better used by, oh, I dunno, A MAGE!? And supports... Too bad Mia's supports are nothing special (or have better options).

And she 4HKOs most of those enemies with it. If you're relying on chance to save SS uses... Yer Doin It Wrong.

When's that going to happen... Oh wait, don't answer that, I'm capable of answering that myself. Probably when pigs fly (AKA, never).

I'm still convinced SS Mia's a cute gimmick and nothing else.

Why? Soren has enough MAG, Ilyana would rather have a SPD band, and Calill/Bastion come way too late. That leaves only Tormod as even capable of really using the band. Tormod doesn't have magic issues in the slightest either (25 MAG) and attacks RES, so it's not a huge thing for him. Besides, the mage-band is only one of two ways for Mia to get magic. The dusts exist as well. So even if Tormod uses the mage band there is no reason for the dusts to not go to whoever uses a magic weapon. Of the magic weapons in the game, the SS is pretty much the only one worth using (the bolt axe and flame lance, while not bad, can't be used anywhere near as well as the SS), so the MAG score is not an issue.

In fact, unless you plan to make heavy use of the Bolt Axe with Largo (which I find laughable, but the only other magic weapon worth investing resources for), I would say that there is no reason why whoever is taking the SS can't have both the band and dusts. Healers with mend staves heal enough, mages either don't make good use of the band or want other things, and unless you plan on using both a Magic-high Tormod and give both dusts to Calill/Bastion, resources simply go to waste/unused. So... Why not?

Also, 4HKO? What? Sure, if you have a level 20/1 Mia with no supports or band fighting endgame opponents you'll see those numbers. Oh. Her supporters? Rhys and Ilyana. The only way Rhys isn't supporting Mia if he's played is if Keiran is played, but Marcia, Boyd, and Mist are not played (Titania and Kieran are his only other supports of value, but Kieran wants Marcia over him due to being closer and Titania gets the same/better bonuses with every other unit she supports). Ilyana might not support her, but that's only if both Mordi and Zihark are played and she's unwilling to lose 1 DEF from picking Mia over Mordi for a B and, even if she doesn't it's only 1 attack lost.

People who believe SS Mia doesn't work because of Mia got getting her supporters even if they are played are idiots. SS Mia works and is very viable.

So, somehow SS mia's 17 mt is acceptable but 41 mt SS mist isnt? I know its not possible to have 41 mt at that point but just saying, that post is absurd. Im tempted to throw snowy's vote because it reeks of way too much bias and its not close to the average rating. What do u all think?

The point is that Mist's higher MAG doesn't matter as much as people seem to think because she simply doesn't reach 1HKO range at maximum level with her best supports. Mia's 20/1 unsupported/banded magic score is irrelevant to that argument.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Snowy_One

[Sunwoo]

Snowy. Why would I want to give Mia the mage band? In FIXED mode, even mages who have high enough magic could use that Mage Band to make their magic go up even FASTER. If Mia is getting the Sonic Sword at all, it's because we're not deploying Tanith for some reason and we want Mia to either kill wyverns with it (and for some reason we're not using mages to get rid of said wyverns) or we just want to give her limited 1-2 range.

Meaning: Mia. Doesn't. Need. Sonic. Sword. Or. Mage. Band. At all. She doesn't need to rely on it. At most, you'd give it to her only to give her limited 1-2 range for whatever reason.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Why is Mia using the mage band? Why not put it on - oh, I don't know - a MAGE to make them gain magic faster?

Because Mia has a lot of fanboys.

[-Cynthia-]

I use the Sonic Sword on Tanith so I don't have to use any Arms Scrolls or mage bands or whatever. And Tanith fights more wyverns anyway due to flight.

[PKL]

I missed ur vote boron. Let me go check it and I'll tell you if ur vote counts.

[Sunwoo]

Because Mia has a lot of fanboys.

Well, aside from fanboyism, that is. Efficiently, even if fanboys love Mia, she really has no business taking the Mage Band.

Edit:

I missed ur vote boron. Let me go check it and I'll tell you if ur vote counts.

Everybody ignores me. Also, how do we know that maybe the current average score isn't too high and maybe everyone else is overrating her? No one's ever had to throw out one of my votes in any of the "RTU"s I've participated in before. This galls me, that you need to "confirm that my vote counts" because I rated her lower than the average, while you're not checking to see if everyone else's high votes reeks of favoritism.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Jihyun

[Elieson]

So, somehow SS mia's 17 mt is acceptable but 41 mt SS mist isnt? I know its not possible to have 41 mt at that point but just saying, that post is absurd. Im tempted to throw snowy's vote because it reeks of way too much bias and its not close to the average rating. What do u all think?

41 mt on a frail pony does not a good unit make, especially when it's gimmick for 20 uses & after sucking so so so much in resources.

Bad unit is bad.

[Snowy_One]

Snowy. Why would I want to give Mia the mage band? In FIXED mode, even mages who have high enough magic could use that Mage Band to make their magic go up even FASTER. If Mia is getting the Sonic Sword at all, it's because we're not deploying Tanith for some reason and we want Mia to either kill wyverns with it (and for some reason we're not using mages to get rid of said wyverns) or we just want to give her limited 1-2 range.

Meaning: Mia. Doesn't. Need. Sonic. Sword. Or. Mage. Band. At all. She doesn't need to rely on it. At most, you'd give it to her only to give her limited 1-2 range for whatever reason.

This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone plays fixed.

Also, giving Mia limited 1-2 range? Isn't that the exact same thing we're doing for Mist? Why is it bad to want to give Mia a 1-2 ranged weapon when the only cost is a band that may arguably not be used, but it's good to give Mist the SS when it takes training/scrolls to even get her to use the thing in the first place? Not to mention that Mist becomes a lot less valuable as a combat unit once it breaks, but Mia can keep going.

[Loki Laufeyson]

This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone plays fixed.

But the ratings are assuming fixed mode.

[Elieson]

This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone plays fixed.

Also, giving Mia limited 1-2 range? Isn't that the exact same thing we're doing for Mist? Why is it bad to want to give Mia a 1-2 ranged weapon when the only cost is a band that may arguably not be used, but it's good to give Mist the SS when it takes training/scrolls to even get her to use the thing in the first place? Not to mention that Mist becomes a lot less valuable as a combat unit once it breaks, but Mia can keep going.

Well, this thread, as it says in the rules, is rating her on fixed mode.....

[Shadow Mir]

Why? Soren has enough MAG, Ilyana would rather have a SPD band, and Calill/Bastion come way too late. That leaves only Tormod as even capable of really using the band. Tormod doesn't have magic issues in the slightest either (25 MAG) and attacks RES, so it's not a huge thing for him. Besides, the mage-band is only one of two ways for Mia to get magic. The dusts exist as well. So even if Tormod uses the mage band there is no reason for the dusts to not go to whoever uses a magic weapon. Of the magic weapons in the game, the SS is pretty much the only one worth using (the bolt axe and flame lance, while not bad, can't be used anywhere near as well as the SS), so the MAG score is not an issue.

In fact, unless you plan to make heavy use of the Bolt Axe with Largo (which I find laughable, but the only other magic weapon worth investing resources for), I would say that there is no reason why whoever is taking the SS can't have both the band and dusts. Healers with mend staves heal enough, mages either don't make good use of the band or want other things, and unless you plan on using both a Magic-high Tormod and give both dusts to Calill/Bastion, resources simply go to waste/unused. So... Why not?

Also, 4HKO? What? Sure, if you have a level 20/1 Mia with no supports or band fighting endgame opponents you'll see those numbers. Oh. Her supporters? Rhys and Ilyana. The only way Rhys isn't supporting Mia if he's played is if Keiran is played, but Marcia, Boyd, and Mist are not played (Titania and Kieran are his only other supports of value, but Kieran wants Marcia over him due to being closer and Titania gets the same/better bonuses with every other unit she supports). Ilyana might not support her, but that's only if both Mordi and Zihark are played and she's unwilling to lose 1 DEF from picking Mia over Mordi for a B and, even if she doesn't it's only 1 attack lost.

People who believe SS Mia doesn't work because of Mia got getting her supporters even if they are played are idiots. SS Mia works and is very viable.

So all the favoritism needed to make SS Mia work out is Ok to you, yet what's needed to get SS Mist isn't? Nice double standard there. Also, breaking news: Tormod isn't going to be at 20/20.

The Bolt Axe is outright impractical so I don't see any relevance there. Not to mention that even with both spirit dusts, Largo's magical offense will suck to the point where he'd be better off using a physical weapon.

Rhys is mediocre, and I'd rather not field the least durable unit in the game on Mia's behalf AND keep him within 3 spaces of her... And in Ilyana's case, there's no real benefit for either side.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Metal King Slime