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Furetchen turns his hand to balancing FE7!


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HELLO, WORTHY COMPANIONS!

I have seen the scarred battlefield of balance hacks. Nay, I have SURVEYED the CARNAGE! And it is good. It is also the reason for my 30% warn bar, but mostly it is good. And I have decided to give it a go for myself, because I figured why the fuck not?

CHANGES MAY INCLUDE

[spoiler=this is more or less completely unorganised]GENERAL CHANGES

+ All promotions happen through earth seal, save the lords.

+ Pegasi use swords before promotion.

+ Isadora and Vaida use male aid formula.

+ Effective weapons buffed, because of crappy x2 effectiveness formula I can't change.

+ Units use HM average stats even outside of HM. Harken is the opposite.

+ Caps generally raised.

+ Enemy stats improved

+ Holy Weapons + Sol Katti buffed

+ Nerfs to javs/handaxen/hawks/short/spears

THE UNTOUCHED

Matthew

Legault

Jaffar

Lowen

Hawkeye

Hector

Florina

Fiora

Vaida

Geitz

Heath

Canas

Ninils

Serra

Oswin

THE BUFFS

Eliwood

Level 1 Fencer

HP: 20

Str: 7

Skl: 8

Spd: 8

Lck: 7

Def: 6

Res: 0

Con: 7

Wallace (as Knight)

HP: 36 (40) 100%

Str: 16 (18) 60%

Skl: 10 (12) 50%

Spd: 7 (10) 30%

Lck: 10 (10) 50%

Def: 15 (17) 60%

Res: 2 (5) 20%

Rejoins next to player units

Rath

HP: 28

Str: 10

Spd: 14

Con: 7

B Bows

Karel

HP: 36

Spd: 25

Con: 11

Starts with a Lightbrand as well as his Wo Dao.

Lyn

HP: 18

Str: 6

Skl: 7

Def: 4

Con: 6

Erk

HP: 18

Mag: 7

Skl: 7

Spd: 8

Def: 4

Con: 6

Louise

HP: 32

Str: 15

Skl: 18

Def: 11

Con: 8

Nino

Level 10 Mage

HP: 25

Mag: 10

Skl: 12

Spd: 15

Lck: 15

Def: 6

Res: 11

Con: 5

Karla

Level 5 Swordmaster

HP: 35

Str: 18

Skl: 26

Spd: 24

Lck: 26

Def: 14

Res: 14

Con: 9

Lucius

Lck: 6/30

Isadora

Con: 9

Wil

Level 4 Archer

HP: 22/85

Str: 10/40

Skl: 10/60

Spd: 8/40

Lck: 8/40

Def: 7/30

Res: 0/15

Con: 8

Rebecca

Level 3 Archer

HP: 20

Str: 8/40

Skl: 9/60

Spd: 9/60

Lck: 6/50

Def: 6/25

Res: 2/25

Con: 7

Guy

As base but with 7 Con.

Dorcas

Str: 9

Spd: 6/30

Bartre

Str: 7

Spd: 7

Dart

Spd: 10

Con: 12

Farina is free.

THE NERFS

Sain

HP: 20

Str: 7

Spd: 5

Kent

Spd: 6

Res: 0

Marcus

HP: 30/50

Str: 12/30

Skl: 12/30

Spd: 11/15

Lck: 6/25

Def: 10/15

Res: 0/15

Con: 11

Class: Hero

Weapon Ranks: A Sword, D Axe

Starting Weapons: Silver Blade, Iron Blade

Raven

HP: 28

Str: 11

Skl: 13

Spd: 11

Lck: 2

Def: 6

Res: 0

Con: 8

Priscilla

E Staves

Pent

Mag: 15

Spd: 13

Lck: 10

Def: 8

C Staves

Athos

Can no longer use Dark Magic.

Harken starts with a Killing Edge and a Handaxe. The Brave Sword drops off Jerme or a random hero.

This is more or less a first draft, so feel free to flame the shit out of it.

EDIT: okay maybe the title doesn't need to be ALL-CAPS

also yeah

I wish I didn't do this all the fucking time
Edited by Furetchen
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Heh, not only a week after I start a FE7 balance hack, there is another.

A lot of the changes you've put forward look really nice. Marcus may be nerfed, but I do approve of him being a hero. Thank God you haven't made the Short Bow 1-2 range.

But Priscilla having 1 base def... why? Also, I think Karla and Nino should be listed under buffs, not nerfs, and why must you nerf Pent's awesomeness???

Eliwood's a Lv. 1... Fencer? Are you pulling an Yggdra Union on us? Or is that something weird in the localisation?

Otherwise, these current changes are not bad at all. I'll betatest if you need me to.

You're reason for making a hack is the same as mine: why the fuck not?

Edited by HeroMaster47
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But Priscilla having 1 base def... why?

Nothing more than that I felt she needed to take a hit, but I just thought of lowering her staff rank to E. Which would probably work a ton better so I'll put that into the OP.

Also, I think Karla and Nino should be listed under buffs, not nerfs

... I'm organised!

i mean

NO NINO NEEDED THOSE FIVE MORE LEVELS TO ACHIEVE TRUE JUSTICE AT LEVEL 20/20

and why must you nerf Pent's awesomeness???

"Ah, just promoted Erk, have we? WELL SOZ BRAH"

Eliwood's a Lv. 1... Fencer? Are you pulling an Yggdra Union on us? Or is that something weird in the localisation?

I just like to differentiate the class names of the lords. Hector's a Gallant, Lyn's a ... something.

Otherwise, these current changes are not bad at all. I'll betatest if you need me to.

You're reason for making a hack is the same as mine: why the fuck not?

pretty much

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NO NINO NEEDED THOSE FIVE MORE LEVELS TO ACHIEVE TRUE JUSTICE AT LEVEL 20/20

YES! That's exactly what was needed!

Priscilla having E-rank staves is probably better than her having 1 base Def. In vanilla FE7, her base is only 3, and her growth is 15% or something, so she'll be taking a hit if you're stupid enough to let her get in range of an attack anyway.

Now it makes sense why Eliwood's called that now. Thanks for clearing that up.

Edited by HeroMaster47
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Farina in EM? (Dunno how the hell it'd work, though)

Lyn could do with some more HP; 18/4 is still pretty bad.

One single promotion item seems a bit unnecessary (I guess if you want to promote Matthew early or something you can)

Put Bolting and status staves everywhere, they're great fun

Other than that, changes look good!

Edited by Baldrick
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That Pent Nerf is pretty extreme...

Dart could use a tiny buff to his SKL growth.

7 base SPD for Bartre is kinda too high. He has a 40% growth. I think he might be too good with a 7 base SPD. A 5 or 6 would be better.

I really like what you plan to do with Marcus and a CON buff is definitely a good idea for those anorexic units. Stupid Guy...

edit: HOLY SHIT! 26 LUCK for Karla?? Is that a typo? Her base stats will all be fucking insane...

Edited by Hawk King
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The mighty Shin has arrived! After taming the beast known as FE4 balance (or at least I tell myself that), I will aid part of my OTP!

CHANGES MAY INCLUDE

[spoiler=this is more or less completely unorganised]GENERAL CHANGES

+ All promotions happen through earth seal, save the lords. Interesting twist - I'd like to see how this turns out.

+ Pegasi use swords before promotion. - Also interesting, changes their early game quite a bit.

+ Isadora and Vaida use male aid formula. - Hey look, they can actually rescue people!

+ Effective weapons buffed, because of crappy x2 effectiveness formula I can't change. Could work out well, I've never really had an issue with them.

+ Units use HM average stats even outside of HM. Harken is the opposite. Uh... so there's no such thing as HM bonuses?

+ Caps generally raised. I didn't notice much cap ramming in FE7, still, I guess it can't hurt. Sain will love you for this.

+ Enemy stats improved Woo!

+ Holy Weapons + Sol Katti buffed Sol Katti definitely needed it!

THE UNTOUCHED

Matthew - Groovy

Legault - Swell

Jaffar - Funky

Lowen - I'd suggest a minor buff, but at least you didn't nerf him!

Hawkeye - He was the man any way

Hector - See above

Florina - She was fine, but I guess she benefits from swords

Fiora - See above

Vaida - Maybe a tad slow, but still understandable

Geitz - Fine

Heath - Bodacious

Canas - Another candidate for a buff, especially since enemies are tougher

Ninils - Boogie!

Serra - Coolio

Oswin - Other than the move, he's gold. But I guess your promotion edit fixes that.

THE BUFFS

Eliwood A much needed early game boost

Level 1 Fencer

HP: 20

Str: 7

Skl: 8

Spd: 8

Lck: 7

Def: 6

Res: 0

Con: 7

Wallace (as Knight)

HP: 36 (40) 100%

Str: 16 (18) 60%

Skl: 10 (12) 50%

Spd: 7 (10) 30%

Lck: 10 (10) 50%

Def: 15 (17) 60%

Res: 2 (5) 20%

Rejoins next to player units No more suicide for you!

Rath Helps him catch up, nice stuff!

HP: 28

Str: 10

Spd: 14

Con: 7

B Bows

Karel 11's pretty high, but no biggie.

HP: 36

Spd: 25

Con: 11

Starts with a Lightbrand as well as his Wo Dao.

Lyn - Woo.

HP: 18

Str: 6

Skl: 7

Def: 4

Con: 6

Erk No complaints here

HP: 18

Mag: 7

Skl: 7

Spd: 8

Def: 4

Con: 6

Louise No real comments.

HP: 32

Str: 15

Skl: 18

Def: 11

Con: 8

Nino Hey look, she's not trash! I would have done something similar.

Level 10 Mage

HP: 25

Mag: 10

Skl: 12

Spd: 15

Lck: 15

Def: 6

Res: 11

Con: 5

Karla Somewhat usable now.

Level 5 Swordmaster

HP: 35

Str: 18

Skl: 26

Spd: 24

Lck: 26

Def: 14

Res: 14

Con: 9

Lucius Doesn't crit-explode, cool.

Lck: 6/30

Isadora - Isn't weighed down by stuff, fun.

Con: 9

Wil A much needed base boost.

Level 2 Archer

HP: 20/85

Str: 8/60

Skl: 8/60

Spd: 6/40

Lck: 8/40

Def: 7/30

Res: 0/15

Con: 8

Rebecca See above

Level 1 Archer

HP: 18

Str: 7/40

Skl: 7/60

Spd: 7/60

Lck: 4/50

Def: 5/25

Res: 2/25

Con: 7

Guy Sure, why not?

As base but with 7 Con.

Dorcas Workable

Str: 9

Spd: 6/30

Bartre That speed saves him.

Str: 7

Spd: 7

Dart Con? Sure.

Spd: 10

Con: 12

Farina is free. Free? Well, no harm done.

THE NERFS

Sain Pretty minor, but hey.

HP: 20

Str: 7

Spd: 5

Kent Again, pretty minor.

Spd: 6

Res: 0

Marcus Ouch, you've hit him pretty hard, early game HHM is going to be a pain.

HP: 30/50

Str: 12/30

Skl: 12/30

Spd: 8/15

Lck: 6/25

Def: 10/15

Res: 0/15

Con: 11

Class: Hero

Weapon Ranks: A Sword, D Axe

Starting Weapons: Silver Blade, Iron Blade

Raven Gives Guy a chance, his speed was pretty crazy any way.

HP: 28

Str: 11

Skl: 13

Spd: 11

Lck: 2

Def: 6

Res: 0

Con: 8

Priscilla She'll get back up to D in no time. I guess it gives people a reason to use Serra.

E Staves

Pent Ouch. Now he's a replacement Lucius. Insta-warp, I shall miss you.

Mag: 15

Spd: 13

Lck: 10

Def: 8

C Staves

Athos Hey look, the dragon might be an actual challenge!

Can no longer use Dark Magic.

Harken starts with a Killing Edge and a Handaxe. The Brave Sword drops off Jerme or a random hero.

Nice stuff. I commend you on Bartre and Nino. Marcus may have been hit a little too hard, but it's your call.

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That Pent Nerf is pretty extreme...

I'll probably make him start closer to the main group so that the desert chapter doesn't completely fuck him over. In fact, given that I usually just let Pent roll that and try to pick off both bosses, I could use some advice on how to make that better. ... Maybe just make sand count as normal tiles.

Dart could use a tiny buff to his SKL growth.

Tiny buffs get tiny results.

7 base SPD for Bartre is kinda too high. He has a 40% growth. I think he might be too good with a 7 base SPD. A 5 or 6 would be better.

Lowen also has 7 str/spd, and is mounted. I don't hear a lot about his being 'too good'.

edit: HOLY SHIT! 26 LUCK for Karla?? Is that a typo? Her base stats will all be fucking insane...

Her base luck is actually pretty damn high. I mean, she's your 'reward' for sticking with Bartre... so I figured, let's make her actually somewhat rewarding.

Nice stuff. I commend you on Bartre and Nino. Marcus may have been hit a little too hard, but it's your call.

Marcus will probably need playtesting, but on the whole I'm happy with this draft for him. Thanks for your thoughts.

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Thats cause Lowen has 30% STR and SPD growths. I honestly think Bartre would be too good. Definitly the best non-mounted combat unit.

Its your balance hack though so in the end its your call.

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Lowen has mediocre offensive growths. He also has excellent defences, and is mounted with partial and then total weapon triangle control, with a practically perfect 10 constitution. Bartre still has to contend with Raven, a boosted Guy, a boosted Dorcas...

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Again, all three lords have PURELY COSMETIC and LARGELY POINTLESS class name changes just because I disliked that three completely different classes had the same name.

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And Barte has a "Super Karla" incentive to use him now. As it stands I would use Bartre over the other 3 every time.

Like I said, its your call. If no one else thinks it too much then it shouldn't be a problem.

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Again, all three lords have PURELY COSMETIC and LARGELY POINTLESS class name changes just because I disliked that three completely different classes had the same name.

Ah, makes sense. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

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That Marcus nerf looks a bit extreme to me. I think he should have at least 10 speed. 8 speed on a hero just looks kinda jarring to me. With a spd boost and an iron sword instead of blade his earlygame softening utility could last longer than what it would with 8 speed and he would still get obsoleted like you seem to want him to.

Other than that, big tick of approval from me. Whatever that's worth.

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Going to echo the others on the Marcus nerf: If you're going to increase the enemy stats, then maybe it shouldn't be as harsh. Although, iirc, FE6!Marcus had stats like this, and he was okay enough.

hmmmm

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Going to echo the others on the Marcus nerf: If you're going to increase the enemy stats, then maybe it shouldn't be as harsh. Although, iirc, FE6!Marcus had stats like this, and he was okay enough.

even FE6 marcus had 11 spd

9/11 in str/skl is what FE6 marcus had which was perfectly fine

Edited by dondon151
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Aside from the Marcus nerf (</3), I approve of these changes.

There's actually significance to these, unlike most of the usual "balance hacks" that tweak stat caps for some reason.

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Just turn Marcus into FE6 Marcus and all is well

I mean fuck he won't solo the game anymore but HHM enemies aren't as strong as FE6HM enemies so it'd still keep him relevant without soloing the entire game with a Silver Axe

Edited by Luminescent Blade
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Marcus will probably need playtesting, but on the whole I'm happy with this draft for him. Thanks for your thoughts.

I don't think Marcus needs to be nerfed that hard, if at all, if he's a Hero. 6 move certainly isn't soloing the game, especially since he can't rescue Hector!

Especially that 8 speed, I mean come on, Marcus loses AS from Hand Axes, and 25% speed growth is one of the lowest in the game aside from like, Jaffar and Dorcas.

Just turn Marcus into FE6 Marcus and all is well

I mean fuck he won't solo the game anymore but HHM enemies aren't as strong as FE6HM enemies so it'd still keep him relevant without soloing the entire game with a Silver Axe

I don't recall the Silver Axe being that useful?

Edited by Refa
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A balance hack that makes sense this can'f be SF what is going o- oh wait it was conceived by Furet. All's well in the world once again. This gets me seal of approval as well except you should have buffed Pent, not nerfed him. What you do is make him join in the desert with dem new bases.

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