Furetchen turns his hand to balancing FE7!

[Sunwoo]

Okay, so, for sake of argument, if I left all Renault's stats the same except for 11 Con, S-rank Light and gave him Aureola instead of having Athos have it, what would happen?

I think he could use a bit more base magic. Not a whole lot, but even 2-3 more points of magic would improve staff range.

[bottlegnomes]

First off, what's the deal with Aureola's effective bonus? Against Nergal does it get +1 damage for (15+1)x2 damage or is it just 15x2? Second, does S ranking a weapon give the attack boost, or is that just 8? If it does, does Athos get the +1 attack from having S rank in everything? It's terrible that I can't remember this shit.

He'd be pretty much the same? He'd have 2 more AS, but it's not like he has trouble doubling as is. His offense would be better for the sole fact that he can use Aureola from the get go, but Athos still makes better use of it. Though, now that Athos can't luna rape everything, Aureola becomes more useful for dealing with Nergal and the FD. I don't think any other light magic users are going to get to S rank in reasonable play, so he'd have a bit of a niche being the only reasonable Aureola user besides Athos. He could do 15, or so, damage a hit to Nergal. If he procs a point of speed, he's doubling, unless Nergal's getting a boost. Athos would still bet much better thanks to doing 33, or so, damage a hit, and can double with a body ring. The dragon he'd be useless against, though, like 2 damage a hit.

He'd definitely be worth getting since Aureola would be by far the easiest way to deal with Nergal. As for his actual use, I don't think it would improve him much, but he was pretty fine to begin with. You could give him 21 speed so he can double Nergal from the get go and if you're buffing Aureola along with the other effective weapons, that could give him an advantage over Athos.

Well that's my two cents.

Edited May 23, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Parrhesia]

I don't think any other light magic users are going to get to S rank in reasonable play, so he'd have a bit of a niche being the only reasonable Aureola user besides Athos.

Lucius. However, your point stands for speedruns and probably uncasual efficiency.

It's definitely worth a shot; a step in the right direction, certainly.

[dondon151]

First off, what's the deal with Aureola's effective bonus? Against Nergal does it get +1 damage for (15+1)x2 damage or is it just 15x2? Second, does S ranking a weapon give the attack boost, or is that just 8? If it does, does Athos get the +1 attack from having S rank in everything? It's terrible that I can't remember this shit.

if you're talking about the weapon triangle, the +1 atk bonus or penalty is calculated before the effective damage multiplier.

[Anouleth]

First off, what's the deal with Aureola's effective bonus? Against Nergal does it get +1 damage for (15+1)x2 damage or is it just 15x2? Second, does S ranking a weapon give the attack boost, or is that just 8? If it does, does Athos get the +1 attack from having S rank in everything? It's terrible that I can't remember this shit.

There's no attack boost from having S Rank... in either this game or 8.

He'd be pretty much the same? He'd have 2 more AS, but it's not like he has trouble doubling as is.

Renault only doubles one boss in Light, and it's Darin. And even then he needs to use a weapon that doesn't slow him down.

His offense would be better for the sole fact that he can use Aureola from the get go, but Athos still makes better use of it. Though, now that Athos can't luna rape everything, Aureola becomes more useful for dealing with Nergal and the FD. I don't think any other light magic users are going to get to S rank in reasonable play, so he'd have a bit of a niche being the only reasonable Aureola user besides Athos.

Er, Lucius?

[bottlegnomes]

@dondon, yeah that's what I meant. Clears things up.

There's no attack boost from having S Rank... in either this game or 8.

Huh, you're right. Where the fuck did I get that idea from then?

Renault only doubles one boss in Light, and it's Darin. And even then he needs to use a weapon that doesn't slow him down.

Nergal, too, but w/o Aureola, it's kind of pointless. Anyway, I meant generic enemies. Plus it's not like many people are doubling most of the bosses in Light.

Er, Lucius?

As Furet put it, I was sort of assuming uncasual efficiency, so I don't see Lucius getting enough combat exposure to get up to S in light in a reasonable time. Even then, he has a D in light to start, and only gets 30 wexp from promotion, so I could see him not hitting S even in slower PTs. Then again, it's been forever since I've used Lucius.

Anyway, a thought on Renault vs Athos, if you could make it so Renault can 2RKO Nergal at base, while Athos can't, that might help him, and it wouldn't be too big a change. You could do it by giving Aureola 18 might and upping Renault's base speed so he can double Nergal at base. IIRC Nergal has 78 HP on HHM, so Renault would do (18+1)x2+12=50-30=20x2=40x2>78. Athos would do (18+1)x2+30=68-30=38x2<78. But that's still so little difference that it's barely noticeable; base level Harken could finish him off with a steel blade. It's not much, but it's something in favor of Renault. Of course, then there's the problem of Renault not being able to survive two hits from Nergal, though giving him an extra 2 health and 4 resistance would fix that, if it's not too big a change.

Then again, Renault's pretty fine as is and I feel like this is over complicating things. So IMO, it's your discretion, Furet.

Edited May 23, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Gryz]

Huh, you're right. Where the fuck did I get that idea from then?

Probably from FE11/FE12.

Of course, then there's the problem of Renault not being able to survive two hits from Nergal, though giving him an extra 2 health and 4 resistance would fix that, if it's not too big a change.

Pure Water and Barrier can stack with the +5 Aureola res bonus.

[bottlegnomes]

Probably from FE11/FE12.

No. I remember thinking they were just revamping the way weapon ranks worked in the GBA games to make it more meaningful when I saw that. I'm legitimately confused by this.

Pure Water and Barrier can stack with the +5 Aureola res bonus.

True, but I was going for a way where it doesn't take any resources, then again, pure water isn't exactly a high demand/low supply resource.

Edited May 23, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Thor Odinson]

Lucius can hit S fine if you're not going blitz mode. I play fairly fast but not efficient fast (at least a few casuals tell me I play too fast :B) and the only time I had trouble getting him to S is when I spammed staves too much with him and that almost hit S instead.

[Refa]

Lucius can hit S fine if you're not going blitz mode. I play fairly fast but not efficient fast (at least a few casuals tell me I play too fast :B) and the only time I had trouble getting him to S is when I spammed staves too much with him and that almost hit S instead.

Well, there are so many defend chapters in the game that if you were really determined to get him to S, you'd get him to S without losing a single turn haha.

[Thor Odinson]

It was more of "oh shit he's almost S staves, Lucius you I forbid to touch even one staff for this entire chapter until you S light"

And then he S'd light in like 2 turns so it was all cool.

Same thing happened with Pent except with Anima. Dammit Physic. :B

Edited May 23, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[bottlegnomes]

Lucius can hit S fine if you're not going blitz mode. I play fairly fast but not efficient fast (at least a few casuals tell me I play too fast :B) and the only time I had trouble getting him to S is when I spammed staves too much with him and that almost hit S instead.

Fair enough. And I know what you mean about accidentally S ranking something. Seth decided to do that on my last FE8 run. I was trying to get him to S swords, but he used javelin a few too many times and next thing I know, his lance rank increased. I was just kind of like

Anyway, looking at Lucius again, he's only got 7 con as a bishop, so there's no way he's ever doubling Nergal with aureola, and attacking him with anything else is largely pointless.

[dondon151]

oh yeah did furet make tomes lighter at all in this game

[bottlegnomes]

oh yeah did furet make tomes lighter at all in this game

IIRC no, which he probably should. They're stupidly heavy.

[Thor Odinson]

Light magic should be light after all hur hur

//shot dead

[Psych]

Light magic should be light after all hur hur

//shot dead

Does that mean Elder Tomes are heavy cause they're made of dark matter?

//rimshot

[bottlegnomes]

Does that mean Elder Tomes are heavy cause they're made of dark matter?

//rimshot

Does that mean younger tomes will be lighter because generally you gain weight when you get older?

//80's sitcom laughtrack

Edited May 23, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Parrhesia]

I'll make them lighter, particularly the... light tomes. They will still weigh the guy down if they're small and if it's high rank, but it'll be a lot more muted.

[General Horace]

I might have missed something obvious here

but maybe just give Athos A light or make Aureola a PRF for Renault, as there is literally no reason why to not give Athos Aureola from the getgo.

[bottlegnomes]

I might have missed something obvious here

but maybe just give Athos A light or make Aureola a PRF for Renault, as there is literally no reason why to not give Athos Aureola from the getgo.

Why did no one think of this before? That said, I am a little iffy about it just because then there's no real easy way to kill Nergal quickly barring bringing Renault, who's not much good outside Nergal-slaying, or Lucius, who very possibly isn't trained, to endgame. Anyway, if no one else has any objections to it, I don't see a reason not to do it.

[Anouleth]

As Furet put it, I was sort of assuming uncasual efficiency, so I don't see Lucius getting enough combat exposure to get up to S in light in a reasonable time. Even then, he has a D in light to start, and only gets 30 wexp from promotion, so I could see him not hitting S even in slower PTs. Then again, it's been forever since I've used Lucius.

I think it's rather silly to balance characters around the assumption that we're going super duper fast efficiency dondon mode. My Lucius hit A Rank. In Chapter 23. Ranked, btw. WEXP is very very easy.

[CT075]

I think it's rather silly to balance characters around the assumption that we're going super duper fast efficiency dondon mode. My Lucius hit A Rank. In Chapter 23. Ranked, btw. WEXP is very very easy.

[bottlegnomes]

Yes because uncasual efficiency automatically means LTCing. And if you'd bothered to read the rest of my post, you'd see I said I wasn't sure how likely it was for Lucius to reach S in slower play, which I've since found out is pretty likely and thus not a problem.

Edited May 24, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Titamon]

Um yeah.. just one more suggestion can Male Sages have auto D staffs on promotion?

[dondon151]

I think it's rather silly to balance characters around the assumption that we're going super duper fast efficiency dondon mode. My Lucius hit A Rank. In Chapter 23. Ranked, btw. WEXP is very very easy.

No, but you have to take into account the possibility that the player hasn't prepared for the battle and provide him at least a usable alternative.