Super Smash Bros Universe Mafia

[Kaoz]

[12:13] Kay Kaoz, question

[12:13] Kay will the stages people are on be revealed

[12:13] Kay and if so, when

[12:13] Kaoz at the end of the day

[12:13] Kay Oh, okay

[12:13] Kaoz alongside the lynch if there is one

[Kay]

Hmmm, how about discussions on which stages we should be going to? Would that be a good idea?

Maybe it would be better not to say where we'll be going, so the mafia can't go to a stage to kill someone in particular?

[Naglfar]

you should check out the number of slips that take place when people are caught off guard

now then, let me hear your end of the bargain along with Excellen's.

Okay, I'd like some examples of that. I've never seen it happen before.

I never said I didn't like RVS, in fact, I'm not really sure how else you're supposed to start a game with a day start. I just wanted to kick off discussion.

that sounds like you want off topic discussion, don't we have the next two days to decide that?

but what do you want to pick your stage based on?

Off-topic? This is a major mechanic. I've thought it over, and though coordinating who goes where worked very well for the town in Brawl with its town leaders, that strategy hinged on outside contact. This is a NOC game; perhaps specifically because the mechanic was so easy to exploit in OC. I can't think of a strategy that wouldn't just be handing information to the mafia or otherwise too easy for them to manipulate. Thus I think we should keep stage discussion to a minimum unless we have a very good reason to do otherwise.

[Blitz]

I think I am fine with picking randomly then, but in SSBB, didn't the mafia get break stage rules to some extent?

also, Unvote

##Vote:Naggy

[Kay]

Mostly it was just taking advantage of the Spear Pillar rule, and there was the one insta-kill, but IIRC that was it.

[eclipse]

As this is RVS, with very few people even here to say something, I think we should hold off on stage discussion. Let's wait until over half the game has something of importance to say first.

[Excellen Browning]

you should check out the number of slips that take place when people are caught off guard

now then, let me hear your end of the bargain along with Excellen's.

Unfortunately for you morons you've reduced RVS to a matter of course, a cliche, something you always do. Aka everyone here knows how it goes and plays along, making you have no scumtells. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU FUCKING TELL THEM ITS A RANDOM VOTE WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOOOOOOOOU. I haven't exactly seen a mafia getting lynched D1 in games where you people pulled a mass RVS.

[Blitz]

so Eclipse, what do you think should be a good topic to talk about?

[Blitz]

Unfortunately for you morons you've reduced RVS to a matter of course, a cliche, something you always do. Aka everyone here knows how it goes and plays along, making you have no scumtells. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU FUCKING TELL THEM ITS A RANDOM VOTE WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOOOOOOOOU. I haven't exactly seen a mafia getting lynched D1 in games where you people pulled a mass RVS.

agreeing that we didn't lynch scum, but I have gotten good reaction almost every game I tried it in.

[Grace]

Excellen, RVS doesn't happen for the entirety of D1. Eventually, people begin consolidating on targets by the end of D1, based on what is determined through the RVS.

I still wonder how the heck we're meant to even get anywhere without anything to discuss. I'd like to see you propose some other method, to be honest, if you think RVS is a stupid thing to do.

Also remember that we didn't get a N0 for investigative roles to do anything.

Face facts, town is likely to mislynch D1, and that's just a fact of the D1 start. You can't seriously expect to lynch maf D1, it's just unlikely.

[eclipse]

I think a better chunk of the game needs to show up, and place/respond to votes. Once there's some solid reads, people can determine where they want go, stage-wise.

[Blitz]

I was hoping Naggy would post more before I said this, but I gotta go

Off-topic? This is a major mechanic.

here you say that me calling the stage business off topic is wrong

This is a NOC game; perhaps specifically because the mechanic was so easy to exploit in OC. I can't think of a strategy that wouldn't just be handing information to the mafia or otherwise too easy for them to manipulate. Thus I think we should keep stage discussion to a minimum unless we have a very good reason to do otherwise.

and right here you say we shouldn't talk about stages, which is pretty much what I meant to say

I am not liking this contradiction and that is why I would keep my vote on you, probably this entire phase unless you can give me a good reason not to.

Face facts, town is likely to mislynch D1, and that's just a fact of the D1 start. You can't seriously expect to lynch maf D1, it's just unlikely.

but not impossible

Okay, I'd like some examples of that. I've never seen it happen before.

look at draft mini

and I have to go

probably won't be back till tomorrow

[Excellen Browning]

Face facts, town is likely to mislynch D1, and that's just a fact of the D1 start. You can't seriously expect to lynch maf D1, it's just unlikely.

No wonder you guys do so bad with that kind of shit attitude.

[Grace]

It's a logistical point. Given what little information we have (ie, none), and the fact that there are more town than scum, means it is likely to be a mislynch. Likely is the key word, and I never said it's impossible to lynch maf D1.

Also, I don't like how abrasive you're being already. It's making me concerned.

[Bluedoom]

##Vote: eclipse because I wanna vote you.

RVS is the only way to go now! Excellen, do you have a plan?

[Naglfar]

I was hoping Naggy would post more before I said this, but I gotta go

here you say that me calling the stage business off topic is wrong

and right here you say we shouldn't talk about stages, which is pretty much what I meant to say

I am not liking this contradiction and that is why I would keep my vote on you, probably this entire phase unless you can give me a good reason not to.

I am interpreting this as you saying that you are prepared to keep your vote on me for an extended period of time in light of a logical inconsistency (this is not a tell in any capacity) that doesn't actually exist because the fault was in your poorly worded post.

Stages are on-topic. This by no means implies that they are the optimal subject of discussion at this point or even a good one.

Excellen, try not to insult or antagonise people in every fucking post you make. This is a game that is supposed to be fun, and it is not fun for anybody to read you swearing at people in bold and caps. Seriously, bold and caps? Calm your shit.

Also, I don't like how abrasive you're being already. It's making me concerned.

Concerned how? What you want to say is as plainly visible as Jeremy Clarkson in an African village but tiptoeing around your opinions won't get us out of RVS any faster. Say what you mean.

[Grace]

Concerned how? What you want to say is as plainly visible as Jeremy Clarkson in an African village but tiptoeing around your opinions won't get us out of RVS any faster. Say what you mean.

Alright, his abrasiveness is making me think he's possibly scum, because he's trying to strongarm the town into not getting anything to analyse and hence be able to find the scum.

So on that note:

##Unvote

##Vote: Excellen

[Naglfar]

Alright, his abrasiveness is making me think he's possibly scum, because he's trying to strongarm the town into not getting anything to analyse and hence be able to find the scum.

So on that note:

##Unvote

##Vote: Excellen

Good man.

Now that's out in the open, I'd like to warn you that in the last game I played with Excellen he acted like this and flipped town. It's not like he doesn't have good points either, if his posts were more civil you probably wouldn't be suspecting him at all right now. In fact, I've been running around shooting down arguments and topics of conversation I don't like more than he has. Does that make you feel suspicious of me at all? If not, I suggest you reconsider your vote.

[Grace]

Now that's out in the open, I'd like to warn you that in the last game I played with Excellen he acted like this and flipped town. It's not like he doesn't have good points either, if his posts were more civil you probably wouldn't be suspecting him at all right now.

Not really. I would probably still suspect him for still trying to prevent town from gaining stuff to analyse.

In fact, I've been running around shooting down arguments and topics of conversation I don't like more than he has. Does that make you feel suspicious of me at all? If not, I suggest you reconsider your vote.

How would that make me necessarily suspicious of you, and why should that effect my vote on Excellen? It's not like the two points are interrelated directly in any way.

Besides, you've actually addressed arguments properly, instead of saying (and I paraphrase) "no, that's stupid and you're wrong". There is actually a fairly big difference in the two circumstances here.

[Kaoz]

Votals

[1] Naglfar - Blitz

[1] eclipse - Bluedoom

[1] Cap'n Flint - Naglfar

[0] BigBangMeteor - Manix

[0] Psych - Blitz

[2] Daigoji Excellen - Psych, Manix, Blitz

[1] Elieson - eclipse

[1] Manix - Excellen, Psych

[Naglfar]

How would that make me necessarily suspicious of you, and why should that effect my vote on Excellen? It's not like the two points are interrelated directly in any way.

Besides, you've actually addressed arguments properly, instead of saying (and I paraphrase) "no, that's stupid and you're wrong". There is actually a fairly big difference in the two circumstances here.

It depends on what exactly bothers you about Excellen, which it seems I don't quite understand yet. Even though there were a lot of swear words and it took him two posts to get to the part where he explains his stance, he did raise a good point - RVS here is kind of mechanical and of dubious effectiveness. There were clear problems in this, primarily how he was shoving his opinion down our throats and not offering an alternative to RVS. I'm guessing it's the former issue that's bothering you, but that just seems to be the way he is so it's a null tell for me. Combining the former with the latter, however, does catch my attention and moves my read of him ever so slightly in the directly of scum. Not enough to draw my vote, but the combination of those two facts could easily be a mafia-borne plan to stall discussion. What I need is evidence to support the theory that it really was, because possibilities on their own are a shitty case. I should come to a decision later in the phase, but please, tell me more about your decision.

[Grace]

It depends on what exactly bothers you about Excellen, which it seems I don't quite understand yet.

Try these:

And what else do you propose we do then? Sit around and twiddle our thumbs?

Because that's what it sounds like.

Excellen, RVS doesn't happen for the entirety of D1. Eventually, people begin consolidating on targets by the end of D1, based on what is determined through the RVS.

I still wonder how the heck we're meant to even get anywhere without anything to discuss. I'd like to see you propose some other method, to be honest, if you think RVS is a stupid thing to do.

Also remember that we didn't get a N0 for investigative roles to do anything.

Face facts, town is likely to mislynch D1, and that's just a fact of the D1 start. You can't seriously expect to lynch maf D1, it's just unlikely.

I think these accurately sum up what I think about Excellen and why I don't like what he's doing.

Even though there were a lot of swear words and it took him two posts to get to the part where he explains his stance, he did raise a good point - RVS here is kind of mechanical and of dubious effectiveness.

Alright, that's fair enough. But one thing though: Unless you know of a good way to get stuff to analyse later, this is all we have. What we probably should do is not state the fact that it's a random vote, right? Maybe that might take away some of the stigma behind RVS.

There were clear problems in this, primarily how he was shoving his opinion down our throats and not offering an alternative to RVS.

From what I self-quoted earlier, I asked him to provide an alternative, and that's more the point that I'm voting him for. The shoving opinions part is still a fair portion of the reason, as well.

This make my stance clear enough?

[Naglfar]

Crystal clear.

Shit, now I don't know what to talk about!

Subieko? Elieson? I see you in here. Anything to say?

[Subieko]

3 pages before I even woke up, wow. But yay, this game is very active~

Hm, I'm not feeling Excellen as scum right now, swearing and complaining about things seems to be pretty normal for him. Naglfar's making good points/seems reasonable.

And I actually like RVS, so I shall contribute with a vote ##Iris. I should have more to say when more of the game has posted.

[Excellen Browning]

Maybe it would be better not to say where we'll be going, so the mafia can't go to a stage to kill someone in particular?

I suppose this is a good enough idea though it might also mean the doc/inspect can't target who they want to target. I'm curious, can we see who is on which stage?

##Vote: eclipse because I wanna vote you.

RVS is the only way to go now! Excellen, do you have a plan?

I did and I set it in motion from the first post I made.

Yes. I acted like a mean and horrible person to give you guys some bait for non-RVS discussion. It's a little plan I hatched that I would vote someone who random voted someone and said immediately it was a random vote.

I would then point out that this is not town behaviour at all, and rather a scum move because it's a safe way of appearing town in the eyes of most players, while you're also not getting asked to tell about why you voted this person.

So if you're town you should stop doing mass RVS (especially announced) because you're giving the mafia a free D1 cloak to hide behind.