Super Smash Bros Universe Mafia

[charlie_]

I suppose. Why I'm not voting for either of them is that I don't have enough on Blitz. I've read Marth wrong last game and he already has enough people on his back to secure a lynch.

[Strawman]

##Vote:Psych (note: this is rando vote thanks to random.org)

Hello all. Holy balls you guys talk a lot.

I just got home from a friend's house, bout to take a shower, then I will go and re-read all freaking 7 pages and hopefully post something not useless. Please don't yell at me for lurking while I'm catching up, thanks.

[Subieko]

I suppose. Why I'm not voting for either of them is that I don't have enough on Blitz. I've read Marth wrong last game and he already has enough people on his back to secure a lynch.

You don't have to have 100% certainty that someone is scum to vote for them; you can put a vote on as pressure, to get more info. You can always change your vote if you change your mind. Stating suspicions without voting a) can be scummy imo, and b) makes your suspicions have less impact.

[Kaoz]

Votals

[1] Subieko - Iris

[1] Naglfar - Blitz

[1] Iris - Subieko

[1] Helios - Psych

[1] Serious Bananas - Subieko

[0] eclipse - Bluedoom

[1] Cap'n Flint - Bluedoom, Naglfar

[0] BigBangMeteor - Manix

[1] Psych - Strawman, Blitz, Subieko

[0] Daigoji Excellen - Blitz, Manix, Psych

[1] Elieson - eclipse

[0] Manix - Psych, Excellen

[5] Bluedoom - Elieson, Manix, Naglfar, Excellen, Shinori

Not voting: Luster Purge, San, Helios, Serious Bananas, adiosToreador, Folgore Pink

[charlie_]

You don't have to have 100% certainty that someone is scum to vote for them; you can put a vote on as pressure, to get more info. You can always change your vote if you change your mind. Stating suspicions without voting a) can be scummy imo, and b) makes your suspicions have less impact.

I doubt a 6th person on Marth will make a difference tbh. Besides, isn't that just pretty much being a sheep?

[Subieko]

Votals

[1] Subieko - Iris

[1] Naglfar - Blitz

[1] Iris - Subieko

[1] Helios - Psych

[1] Serious Bananas - Subieko

[0] eclipse - Bluedoom

[1] Cap'n Flint - Bluedoom, Naglfar

[0] BigBangMeteor - Manix

[1] Psych - Strawman, Blitz, Subieko

[0] Daigoji Excellen - Blitz, Manix, Psych

[1] Elieson - eclipse

[0] Manix - Psych, Excellen

[5] Bluedoom - Elieson, Manix, Naglfar, Excellen, Shinori

Not voting: Luster Purge, San, Helios, Serious Bananas, adiosToreador, Folgore Pink

You've listed me twice--I unvoted Iris a ways back.

Also Folgore Pink hasn't posted yet at all I think, hrm.

[Excellen Browning]

idk, Blitzy, I wouldn't want players to pick their stages and then when we agree on the optimum strategy with stage picks, a lot of players may have already ruined that.

Not that I know what the "optimum strategy" would be, but I think separating the players evenly to the stages might be a good start. iirc it was the stage system (and the fact that Mafia fakeclaims were spotted as soon as the Mafia character structure was deduced) that allowed the Town to slaughter the Mafia. I'm not sure how well it would work now, with the game being NOC, but at the very least, I don't think it's wise to have everybody on the same stage.

Proto: Blitz I don't want to play night phase suboptimally in any way. Which is just odd if I'm town, I know. There's no real advantage to the town that I see when we split up. The information roles would have less choice of targets. and if I was mafia and we decided who makes the kill or something we have less chance of hitting doc or otherwise roleblocking.

Different topic here, maybe it's a bit early but how many mafia do you think are all in the game?

SB: I'm not quite sure how to talk to you people, but the people in the mafia role pm said I should talk about something. so I guess I'll just talk about something I know something about, the mafia numbers.

[Subieko]

I doubt a 6th person on Marth will make a difference tbh. Besides, isn't that just pretty much being a sheep?

I was thinking more of Blitz actually; you're wary of him, but didn't put a vote down. And the post of his you were suspicious of was one of the first posts of the game, so you had time to bring it up earlier. Wrt Marth, you waited until a wagon had already built up to post suspicions of him, and then your suspicions just echoed what had already been said. So that looks like sheeping to me anyway, with a failure to vote for who you're suspicious of as well.

[Jotaro Kujo]

I haven't posted because I was sleeping, then my parents dragged me halfway across town to do stuff I had no business there, but they just want to bring me along anyway. I'm back now, and I read all 7 pages of posts.

What I got from all of this is that, Excellen did what he normally does and came roaring out of the gates with his standard early mafia game repertoire, which got everyone riled up. Also, apparently RVS isn't helpful (which I disagree with, but I'll say why later), it's too early to pick stages since we still have a lot of time left, and Marth is being...Marth.

In every single mafia game I've played with Marth, he's said something or dome something that everyone instantly gets suspicious of (and I'll be honest, I have been one of those people) and then everyone pressure votes him and either he cracks and says he did it, or freaks out which just adds suspicion. Right now my read on him is completely unreliable. Half of me is saying "Oh, he's done this before; he's probably going to flip town and he's just doing stupid things like he always does", and the other half is like "but what if he actually is mafia and this is his playstyle, and you're falling right into his trap", so meh. My read's not clear. I want to know why you're doing this though, Marth. Saying "Oh I don't want to say" is some bullshit. Get your act together please.

I also don't think much about Excellen, because, like I said, he normally starts with bolded capslock rage at players for saying/doing things he thinks are stupid and unnecessary. I'm wary of him, but honestly, I can't say that he's scum right now.

Since a lot of the fire has been targeted towards these two, and not every player has said much for me to start getting reads, I don't have someone to vote for right now, but, this is definitely going to change as time passes.

[charlie_]

I was thinking more of Blitz actually; you're wary of him, but didn't put a vote down. And the post of his you were suspicious of was one of the first posts of the game, so you had time to bring it up earlier. Wrt Marth, you waited until a wagon had already built up to post suspicions of him, and then your suspicions just echoed what had already been said. So that looks like sheeping to me anyway, with a failure to vote for who you're suspicious of as well.

When I first read the thread, it was on page 4, almost done with it too. I felt like I had things to say about earlier happenings so I said them. Eh...

##Vote Flint

I'll see if anything that comes up while I'm sleeping changes my mind.

[charlie_]

I mean ##Vote: Flint

[Kay]

##Vote:Psych (note: this is rando vote thanks to random.org)

Hello all. Holy balls you guys talk a lot.

I just got home from a friend's house, bout to take a shower, then I will go and re-read all freaking 7 pages and hopefully post something not useless. Please don't yell at me for lurking while I'm catching up, thanks.

Okay, not that I exactly agree with Excellen either, but this really always does seem kind of silly. A "random" vote should be for not much reason, like someone reading the thread but not posting or not commenting on something. Not truly random, at least not at this point. And stating that it's completely random defeats the point, since you're very likely not to keep it there and there's nothing to react to anyway. Not like if scum have to wonder whether they've messed up somewhere. Plus, it's just one of those "don't hold me accountable for my posts" things, and that is scummy.

[Kay]

Also, Excellen, do you not remember how badly that attitude worked for Sho?

[Shinori]

Isn't excellen sho? O.o

[Grace]

SB: I'm not quite sure how to talk to you people, but the people in the mafia role pm said I should talk about something. so I guess I'll just talk about something I know something about, the mafia numbers.

=> begin quick scan after waking up

=> find this

This does make a little bit of sense, actually. But conversely, he might just be town trying to get a grip on the situation at hand. I'm not drawing a read from it right now.

=> rescanning thread

[Kriemhild]

Also, is it really sensible to ask me why am I voting Blitz? I find him scummy, and I want to see how he'd play as D1 carries on. You know, observing stuff. But nooooo. :|

To see how he plays, observing him... I'm not sure how that relates to voting him.

hold on

i'm still kinda awake

iirc, a general rule is roughly the square root of the total players

at least, that's what I read somewhere

I think

I never thought of using square root before but I just realized that it applies to a lot of games...

Isn't excellen sho? O.o

lolshinori

Anyways, so far, I find it quite suspicious how the Blues bandwagon started. I think Naggy and Excellen were overreacting when they voted for Blues simply because he voted without explaining his reasons. I mean, come on, when you don't explain your reasons for voting for someone, it most likely isn't a situation of scum trying to score a mislynch, because Blues did not even attempt to get others to vote for him but rather, he refused to explain his reasons.

##Vote: Shinori

Voting for him when he had four votes already? Simply because he voted without explaining himself? I find it scummy how you were willing to lynch him for that. Why exactly did you want him to spill his beans?

[Shinori]

Because a townie normally wouldn't be privilege to info that they otherwise shouldn't have, and the way he is making it sound is that he already has some sort of info. The only people that normally have that stuff is scum.

[Grace]

Because a townie normally wouldn't be privilege to info that they otherwise shouldn't have, and the way he is making it sound is that he already has some sort of info. The only people that normally have that stuff is scum.

Also, we didn't have a N0, so he couldn't be an investigative role that knows something, either.

=> Back to reading thread

[Shinori]

Also, we didn't have a N0, so he couldn't be an investigative role that knows something, either.

=> Back to reading thread

This.

My point exactly. No night 0 how does he have something extra that says blitz is scum. That's why i want him to say something. I need to read the page before this though.

[BBM]

He clearly didn't have anything extra. He was trying to get a reaction from Blitz. But it was a dumb way to do it, because everybody is so suspicious of him now that a theoretical scum!Blitz could easily deflect any suspicion on him to Marth.

Also, Bizz, you said you had a series of posts to make?

[Grace]

Also, Bizz, you said you had a series of posts to make?

When I get back from my walk I'll continue where I started from

reading too stronk

[Strawman]

idk, Blitzy, I wouldn't want players to pick their stages and then when we agree on the optimum strategy with stage picks, a lot of players may have already ruined that.

Not that I know what the "optimum strategy" would be, but I think separating the players evenly to the stages might be a good start. iirc it was the stage system (and the fact that Mafia fakeclaims were spotted as soon as the Mafia character structure was deduced) that allowed the Town to slaughter the Mafia. I'm not sure how well it would work now, with the game being NOC, but at the very least, I don't think it's wise to have everybody on the same stage.

Well, I think there are both many pros and cons to separating the players. IIRC that is what we did last time and it seemed to work pretty well, but we did have OC. I could see the benefit in it possibly limiting who could be scum based on what stage the person who dies comes from. We would get that info anyways since we will know who went to each stage, but equally splitting people among them(4 on all stages except one stage with 3 people) gives us a very small number of suspects to be the killer. if we leave it up to chance we could get 9 people on one stage and 2 on another which sucks if someone on the 9 people stage dies but it great if the person on the 2 person stage dies. However, there is also the (pretty good imo) chance of a mafia kill ability that can bypass stage limitations. This could cause problems is there is a stage without a mafia on it and they choose to kill someone on that stage. It sets us with the complete wrong targets. This risk rises, I think, if we organize where everyone should go as any form of public in thread organization gives the mafia a chance to participate and try and get things to go the way they want. For now, I think its probably most beneficial to leave stage up to random for day 1, but depending on the information we get and the circumstances later on in the game, it could be useful to organize it in some sense.

I suppose this is a good enough idea though it might also mean the doc/inspect can't target who they want to target. I'm curious, can we see who is on which stage?

So if you're town you should stop doing mass RVS (especially announced) because you're giving the mafia a free D1 cloak to hide behind.

Yes.

As for the subject of RVS(which i participated in extremely late lol) I have begun participating in it for a completely different reason than other. Personally I had been hesitant to vote, especially early on, because of my lack of strong early D1 opinions. In more recent games I have found that if I make a random vote in one of my first couple day posts it eases me into the act of voting and allows me to be much more effective in questioning/pressuring people and expressing my opinion trough votes. SO really I just do it to get over my own personal hesitations. However, it does seem to at least get people in and saying something. And I find it interesting you say the type of RVS used here does nothing yet it prompted you to (allegedly) fake an over reaction and vote/reaction test early on, didn't it?

Any other opinions, Shinori? Or are you just showing up to jump on an easy bandwagon?

Guys, stop voting for Marth. It's obviously a reaction test, and he obviously doesn't want to say so because what good would a reaction test do if you announced it? Marth, give it up and admit it, poking at Blitzy isn't worth getting lynched over.

If there's a huge scumtell, it's clearly not that obvious, since no one else mentioned it. If you think there's a scumtell, point it out. How do you expect to lynch scum if you keep this stuff to yourself? I think asking if something is a good idea in that way is a bit scummy, but that's not huge IMO.

Hmm, I agree that Shinori's like 2 relevant posts haven't really brought much new to the table.I also will agree with you on the Marth thing. not going to lie, I find his behavior highly peculiar, but it doesn't catch me as scummy, unless it were a scum purposefully trying to get lynched(me in CP mafia) and troll town for some reason. Someone, cant remember who right off the top of my head, did bring up possible jester(I'm assuming is the same as fool). I don't know about how broken an unlynchable(or 1 time lynch stop) mafia would be, but that could be another possibility. However, neither of those seem particularly more possible to exist than not and the latter seems pretty ridiculous in general. That leaves me with thinking Marth is just being completely ridiculous but probably town, I just wish I knew why. If he is town it is the least pro-town town I have seen recently. Plus there are plenty of other people(myself included) who we could stand to see more from and get more to form opinions on, and focusing so much on one person so early in the phase wastes some of that opportunity(though giving opinions on him is still helpful, don't get me wrong).

Also by what he means of keeping his "cases' to himself is building up sufficient evidence on someone before striking out at them. It makes sense if you think about it. You don't take someone to court and expect to win with 1 iffy piece of evidence, you build up lots and lots. if he points out every little thing he seems from each player here and there they have the opporunity to respond and correct/hide that behavior which could make the scum harder to incriminate and leave behind less evidence.

(1) What does everyone else think of Subieko? o:

Is it bad that I remember very little of how Subieko played when we were mafia buddies? I do remember her being really worried about what she posts and making sure over and over that she wouldn't be posting anything anyone could have a problem with though. However, I can't remember if she plays differently than that as town, so that meta is only so reliable. Her first couple posts don't come off as either too safe or out there, so not particularly strong reads on those. She does question her own playing ability a little though which could be trying to pass of her lack of too solid of opinions as inexperience. Though in all honesty I think this is just her playstyle and its not giving me anything saying shes scum. Pretty much an unsure/nuetral read on her so far.

Lets see, other people. Naglfar seems to be thinking out things a lot and confronting other people's logic(though really mostly just Manix's, well and Marth but Marth doesn't count as using logic). I would say town, but I'm a bit nervous how when questioning Manix it seemed a little less about finding out Manix's logic on his Excellen vote and more like a roundabout attempt to change Manix's opinions under the guise of intense logic analyses. Especially since he hasn't focused on one thing as intensely since then.

I question the method behind Excellen's angry RVS rant, but hey it opened up discussion. Whether or not that counts as relevant(imo) discussion I haven't decided yet. So far he is coming off as more townish.

SB is in only his second game so I think most the of the things he is doing is just the noob in him. Though what Excellen said about the mafia telling him to talk about something thing, numbers is just kind of a general noob thing to discuss for both noobtown and noobscum. However, I would say his actions are having me lean on the suspicious side since I'm definitely not giving him a free pass for not being experienced, no making that mistake again.

Kay, see my earlier comment on RVS to see why I even opted for a random vote this late and with out having read the thread.

##Unvote

There are a few more people who have posted a good amount that I need to go back and re-read to solidify my opinion on, so I'm gonna go do that and then come back with a real vote. As well as catch up on what I missed while reading for and writing this.

[Elieson]

Who's to say the Marth has nothing on Blitz. His RolePM could indicate something, giving him reason to find him suspicious, simply on principal of something that Blitz isn't even aware of.

Of course, had he come out and said something like that, he'd be out of the frying pan.

But Marth decided to go "Oh, Just consider my vote an RVS vote then.", which was really a poor attempt at guiding us away from him. He found someone suspicious that didn't really do anything, mere hours of the game beginning. There has to be something.

---

Just a few other things I'm working on catching up with.

Hey Flint. You seem super quick to assume Excellen is mafia, this could make Flint a mafia trying to setup a mislynch right from the start.

This would give the mafia an edge - that is if they have any knowledge of who could be what role this early.

I haven't read the last game, does anyone mind telling me how they exploited it?

Way to put yourself in front of a firing squad. Even if you're a mafia bomb or something that's a horrible idea for the first day. If there were 4 mafia, I would rather have everyone alive at this point rather than someone dying to kill off a possibly harmless role. I don't know if there are any vanillas, a smash based mafia doesn't seem like that kind.

Not really, you seem to be pretty town so far. Good to know about Excellen since I've never been in a game with him before.

Nobody knows who is who but the mafia. You can't get a message through without it being read by 22 other players. If you announce that you are a power role, then if the mafia have their first target. First day is already bad enough is we mislynch, it only gets worse if the doctor or cop or someone paints a target on him or herself. Sure mafia can get away with it but if we throw everything out in the open we throw away the game.

I think I can see some small amount of reason behind this but not enough to really go gunning for him yet. Do you have some information of Blitz that the rest of us don't?

I think this x5 is about enough reason for you to tell us why you voted Blitz.

Is there likely to be any way of outside contact? The mafia probably has a way but maybe it's someone's specific role? Maybe lovers?

This just compounds my suspicions of Marth. He even tried the "vote for me" card, except without the lynchproof bluff.

There's some other stuff, but I'm not too sure about it so I'll leave for now.

So far, I think that Nags, Excellen, Manix and Bizz are the most town (in order). Marth is coming across as scummy, and I'm wary of Flint. Everyone else is about neutral right now.

Anyone who wants to argue anything with me go ahead.

You don't find Marth to be anything other than "about neutral"? Ok, just confirming.

And just because you're unfamiliar with the whole mafia thing doesn't mean you're getting a free pass. I was noobscum twice in my first 2 games, ask anyone here. It pretty much opened the stinky expired can of Noobscum, and the smell quickly filled the room. It's stuck in everyone's noses, and with just reason. I can't find your post that said it, but I remember it was somewhere here.

Okay, not that I exactly agree with Excellen either, but this really always does seem kind of silly. A "random" vote should be for not much reason, like someone reading the thread but not posting or not commenting on something. Not truly random, at least not at this point. And stating that it's completely random defeats the point, since you're very likely not to keep it there and there's nothing to react to anyway. Not like if scum have to wonder whether they've messed up somewhere. Plus, it's just one of those "don't hold me accountable for my posts" things, and that is scummy.

This is a valid point. 4AM Sugar crash posts aren't even worth making, because A.) The game just started, and we're still having first time posters in the past say, 5 or so hours, and B.) They contribute absolutely nothing. RVS contributes nothing as well, but that's more related to the game.

And Excel. I never knew you were so...aggressive in these. I'm rereading the first few days' worth of posts, and you have effectively given me the thought of a town aggressor. Something that other players aren't really able to do.

I would loooooove more psychologically sound posts from Psych, more activity from our ladies (Pink and Iris), and probably more activity from myself too. I'm working on it. I got the week off at the restaurant (first week off in....what, like 3 years), so I'll be actually active in evenings, with multiquoted posts that aren't impossible in I.P. Mobile (i.e. my phone).

[Elieson]

Who's to say the Marth has nothing on Blitz. His RolePM could indicate something, giving him reason to find him suspicious, simply on principal of something that Blitz isn't even aware of.

Of course, had he come out and said something like that, he'd be out of the frying pan.

But Marth decided to go "Oh, Just consider my vote an RVS vote then.", which was really a poor attempt at guiding us away from him. He found someone suspicious that didn't really do anything, mere hours of the game beginning. There has to be something.

---

Just a few other things I'm working on catching up with.

Hey Flint. You seem super quick to assume Excellen is mafia, this could make Flint a mafia trying to setup a mislynch right from the start.

This would give the mafia an edge - that is if they have any knowledge of who could be what role this early.

I haven't read the last game, does anyone mind telling me how they exploited it?

Way to put yourself in front of a firing squad. Even if you're a mafia bomb or something that's a horrible idea for the first day. If there were 4 mafia, I would rather have everyone alive at this point rather than someone dying to kill off a possibly harmless role. I don't know if there are any vanillas, a smash based mafia doesn't seem like that kind.

Not really, you seem to be pretty town so far. Good to know about Excellen since I've never been in a game with him before.

Nobody knows who is who but the mafia. You can't get a message through without it being read by 22 other players. If you announce that you are a power role, then if the mafia have their first target. First day is already bad enough is we mislynch, it only gets worse if the doctor or cop or someone paints a target on him or herself. Sure mafia can get away with it but if we throw everything out in the open we throw away the game.

I think I can see some small amount of reason behind this but not enough to really go gunning for him yet. Do you have some information of Blitz that the rest of us don't?

I think this x5 is about enough reason for you to tell us why you voted Blitz.

Is there likely to be any way of outside contact? The mafia probably has a way but maybe it's someone's specific role? Maybe lovers?

This just compounds my suspicions of Marth. He even tried the "vote for me" card, except without the lynchproof bluff.

There's some other stuff, but I'm not too sure about it so I'll leave for now.

So far, I think that Nags, Excellen, Manix and Bizz are the most town (in order). Marth is coming across as scummy, and I'm wary of Flint. Everyone else is about neutral right now.

Anyone who wants to argue anything with me go ahead.

You don't find Marth to be anything other than "about neutral"? Ok, just confirming.

And just because you're unfamiliar with the whole mafia thing doesn't mean you're getting a free pass. I was noobscum twice in my first 2 games, ask anyone here. It pretty much opened the stinky expired can of Noobscum, and the smell quickly filled the room. It's stuck in everyone's noses, and with just reason. I can't find your post that said it, but I remember it was somewhere here.

Okay, not that I exactly agree with Excellen either, but this really always does seem kind of silly. A "random" vote should be for not much reason, like someone reading the thread but not posting or not commenting on something. Not truly random, at least not at this point. And stating that it's completely random defeats the point, since you're very likely not to keep it there and there's nothing to react to anyway. Not like if scum have to wonder whether they've messed up somewhere. Plus, it's just one of those "don't hold me accountable for my posts" things, and that is scummy.

This is a valid point. 4AM Sugar crash posts aren't even worth making, because A.) The game just started, and we're still having first time posters in the past say, 5 or so hours, and B.) They contribute absolutely nothing. RVS contributes nothing as well, but that's more related to the game.

And Excel. I never knew you were so...aggressive in these. I'm rereading the first few days' worth of posts, and you have effectively given me the thought of a town aggressor. Something that other players aren't really able to do.

I would loooooove more psychologically sound posts from Psych, more activity from our ladies (Pink and Iris), and probably more activity from myself too. I'm working on it. I got the week off at the restaurant (first week off in....what, like 3 years), so I'll be actually active in evenings, with multiquoted posts that aren't impossible in I.P. Mobile (i.e. my phone).

[Elieson]

What the heck doublepost is awful.