Super Smash Bros Universe Mafia

[Shinori]

My two relevant posts has been due to the fact that I've been playing Xbox or PS3 all day. Like, literally, all day. Sorry about the inactivity, I've just been lazy today and yesterday with mafia related stuff. However the way I currently feel about bluedoom hasn't changed and I still want some sort of answer from him, it doesn't even have to be anything super specific, I just wanna know if he was bullshitting just for some sort of reaction or if he does have some way of actually some how having information already. Thus, I need to go read the last page.

[Grace]

Very well then, think of it as part of the RVS situation and let it continue. Its not like anything game-changing happened.

That would be nice, if it wasn't for the fact we blew past RVS in record time. We're at that point where you really need to start justifying your votes.

I think the Marth wagon looks kind of bad, but from my experiences, when a townie racks up tons of votes, scum tends to not vote for said townie, but it's hard to explain my votal analysis. :/ His initial refusal to explain why he voted Blitz kind of annoys me, though.

No, that's a reasonable thought. Scum can probably avoid voting someone if there is a lot of votes on someone already by the town, to avoid being seen as suspicious when that person flips.

2. The tone of the bottom line bothers me.

Bothers you how? Clarify what you're saying. If I had to earlier, then I don't think it's completely unreasonable for you (and anyone else) to either.

(1) What does everyone else think of Subieko? o:

(2) And what about Marth? o:

1) At this point, not that much. I'm only getting a neutral read. :/

2) He really shouldn't have done what he's done. Because of how scummy it looks, if he's town, then he's just wasting town's time. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he flips scum.

There definitely was something up with that wagon that I don't like. Way too fast on Day 1 for my tastes.

Because town can't vote for someone who looks scummy? Right, I'll keep that in mind... /sarcasm

I get the feeling there's 4-5, but I definitely feel like there's a third party.

I considered that possibility of a third party, and it's quite possible.

This stood out to me as kinda scummy. If Marth flips scum, I'd do something about Helios. This looks like a way a scum buddy would try to warn his pal. I know in that other game Paper hosted where Bizz and I were scum, we couldn't talk during the day. So it's possible that the mafia can't talk during the day right now and Helios is trying to help Marth. Sure, probably Meta'ing, but still something to consider.

Wasn't there something in the rules of that game that specifically said the mafia couldn't nighttalk? If so, check the rules of this game, and see if there's something about that. We can't assume that the mafia doesn't get daytalk, so we have to assume the worst.

In other words, I doubt it, and like before with Naggy and Excellen, they would probably just use their capacity to talk outside the thread.

Hey Flint. You seem super quick to assume Excellen is mafia, this could make Flint a mafia trying to setup a mislynch right from the start.

No, this is normal Blitz play. Kinda, in the sense that he throws votes everywhere early, RVS or not. I'm not sold on that being a good reason.

Is there likely to be any way of outside contact? The mafia probably has a way but maybe it's someone's specific role? Maybe lovers?

This irks me a lot. How can you assume that the mafia gets any form out outside contact? Most of the time, the only outside contact they get is with other mafioso's. I think we may need to come back to this part when SB flips.

He never said he wasn't using logic and reasoning. He's just not telling you what it is.

Which is the reason why I'm voting him. It's detrimental to the town this early to withhold information that is clearly in thread. If there's something scummy about someone, you say why, not to flitter about it and not say why.

no thank you I might post my current opinions just before the end of N1 but for now I will mostly keep my suspicions to myself to keep building cases against whoever I think is scum at the moment and to avoid a stupid bandwagon. If I think I have made a solid case however you guys will know.

Take notes, Marth. This is a better way of doing it.

I see. But consider this: if both Marth and Blitz were scum, why would Marth make such a commotion by voting for Blitz? Drawing a ton of attention himself and a scumbuddy early D1 seems way too risky to me. I'd also like to know why you're not voting for either of them, given that you're suspicious of both (unless you voted somewhere and I missed it).

But what if only one of them is scum? And somehow, right now, I doubt it's Blitz.

##Vote:Psych (note: this is rando vote thanks to random.org)

Hello all. Holy balls you guys talk a lot.

I just got home from a friend's house, bout to take a shower, then I will go and re-read all freaking 7 pages and hopefully post something not useless. Please don't yell at me for lurking while I'm catching up, thanks.

I'm going to yell at you because we're out of RVS already, but since you haven't read the thread... ugh. Fine, but I do expect a decent post from you soon.

You don't have to have 100% certainty that someone is scum to vote for them; you can put a vote on as pressure, to get more info. You can always change your vote if you change your mind. Stating suspicions without voting a) can be scummy imo, and b) makes your suspicions have less impact.

Stating suspicions without voting can also be useful in certain situations, but this isn't one of them (see LYLO as a case study). Also, when you get close to the hammer and don't want to hammer yet (but again, not the situation here).

[Grace]

dammit straw ninja

but yeah, SB is striking me as possible scum, along with Marth

[Paperblade]

Tell me if anything is wrong.

[1] Naglfar - Blitz

[0] Iris - Subieko

[0] eclipse - Bluedoom

[2] Cap'n Flint - Bluedoom, Naglfar, Bananas

[0] BigBangMeteor - Manix

[0] Psych - Blitz, Subieko, StSS

[0] Daigoji Excellen - Psych, Blitz, Manix

[1] Elieson - eclipse

[0] Manix - Psych, Excellen

[5] Bluedoom - Elieson, Manix, Naglfar, Excellen, Shinori

[1] Subieko - Iris

[1] Helios - Psych

[1] SeriousBananas - Subieko

[1] Shinori - Proto

Voteless Scum - Bizz, Folgore Pink, BBM, Helios, San, StSS

Edited July 3, 2012 by Paperblade

[Percivalé]

okay back

rest of my responses to come soon

[Strawman]

Yo, real vote time.

##Vote:Eclipse

So your posts are all in the early phase and they're all very short which is nbd really. But the problem i have is that at least three of your posts are all along the lines of "This is RVS lets not talk about stages now(/it'll probably come up later)." Which when that and discussion on RVS were the only things brought up, it didn't seem like you wanted to be apart of either of them. And then it gets confusing because in your fist post about stage discussion that gives of a "we shouldn't talk about that now" vibe also asks Proto his thoughts on it, when he was the one who brought it up originally. So then with that and your later two posts it seemed you were either contradicting yourself, but also not at the same time. It seems like you wanted to contribute without really contributing much. Most of your posts also seem to focus on waiting on/wanting input of others with very little of your own input so far.

And thoughts on Blitz, since he was hot topic discussion and in the discussion earlier in the day. Blits is coming off as his normal Blitzy self with lots of jumpy votes and lots of short posts/responses. Actions want to me to put him as a slightly scummy read. Meta wants me to put him as slightly town read. His Nags vote was initially scummy, but I think his explanation made it better.

Stating suspicions without voting can also be useful in certain situations, but this isn't one of them (see LYLO as a case study). Also, when you get close to the hammer and don't want to hammer yet (but again, not the situation here).

if you have multiple suspicions its not like you can vote for all of them at the same time :/

Stating suspicions without a vote can be useful if you find multiple people vote worthy but you haven't quite decided which you want to pressure/pressure first. Of if one of the people you find suspicious already has a ton of votes and you want to get discussion about someone else going as well.

Also, I think a lot of people are taking Marth's vote the wrong way. It isn't a vote that is pushing Blitz to actually get lynched or more votes, aka a vote with tons of reasoning he would want to explain and give away so people agree with him and also vote. It still isn't a "good" vote since its so suspicious, and its definitely lacking any power, but I think it was more meant specifically for Blitz to respond to than for everyone else to respond to. If that makes sense.

[Subieko]

But what if only one of them is scum? And somehow, right now, I doubt it's Blitz.

I still think Marth is Town playing poorly, and Blitz seems Townish to me. So, I think neither of them is scum. I raised the question because SB had mentioned suspicions on both of them, and they really don't look like scumbuddies to me right now.

Because a townie normally wouldn't be privilege to info that they otherwise shouldn't have, and the way he is making it sound is that he already has some sort of info. The only people that normally have that stuff is scum.

I really don't think Marth's vote was based on some kind of private info; as you've pointed out it's unlikely he would have any as Town (only scenario I see is if his role PM said something and that doesn't seem likely), and if he was scum why would he admit to having private info? I assumed he was trying some gambit or something that didn't work. The vote was bad, yeah, but it seems like bad Town play rather than scum play.

At this point I think Marth and the wagon on him are likely to be D1 Town infighting, and scum is likely to be avoiding it and thus flying under the radar more. I would like him to post some response to all the discussion about him though.

I'm still a bit wary of SB, but he's responded pretty calmly to my questions where I would expect noobscum to maybe get more flustered. So I'd like to wait and see more from him for now. ##Unvote

Right now I want to hear more from Helios. He made one post of summary and some complaints about Marth with no vote, then left. ##Vote: Helios let's see some opinions.

And now sleep.

[Jotaro Kujo]

Also, I think a lot of people are taking Marth's vote the wrong way. It isn't a vote that is pushing Blitz to actually get lynched or more votes, aka a vote with tons of reasoning he would want to explain and give away so people agree with him and also vote. It still isn't a "good" vote since its so suspicious, and its definitely lacking any power, but I think it was more meant specifically for Blitz to respond to than for everyone else to respond to. If that makes sense.

Marth's vote was probably a pressure vote. Still, he went about it the wrong way, which is why everyone got on top of him like they did. I'm still unsure on what to call Marth at this point, but he tends to do stupid things and he always gets into a mess even when he doesn't mean to.

As more things started coming out, everyone started getting more defensive, which is making it hard for me to get clear reads. Too many times I have voted for the wrong person and it annoys me. Straw, you voted for Eclipse while saying that Eclipse was contradicting some of the things she said before. Can you please provide me with what you had in mind when you made that post please? I'm curious as to what you think you found.

[Percivalé]

All right; I've been kind of tight today. I have analyzed page four (keep in mind that I'm only thoroughly up to page four)

I'm going to add though that the Marth wagon was kind of ridiculous. Reasons will follow below.

Okay, but why exactly are you voting him then? You haven't answered the question.

It doesn't help us later on when trying to analyse voting patterns if you don't tell us why.

Here's where it gets tricky.

I don't necessarily think that what Marth is doing is wrong. It seems like he's withholding information from the town, but I think there are times when it's better to just not say anything at all (though it isn't very wise to publicly announce that you supposedly know something but won't share it, because not only does this irritate players but it also gives subtle hints to the mafia, so avoid that next time, please, because stuff like this is what paints a fucking target on your head sometimes). I do this actually and I've stated it in-thread before, and I never got any shit for it, so I'm curious as to why it is exactly Marth is scummy for this.

I found him scummy, I won't say why though.

Don't out this next time if it's important to you; just note it down and lie low until the appropriate time comes to out it. But be careful holding it for too long--if you die, your information is useless.

*facepalm*

You have got to be kidding me.

##Vote: Bluedoom

This more incentive? Because goddammit, this could be useful later on, and yet... *sigh*

no stop it with the overdramatic facepalm and the sigh that does not read well for me at all

No, active lurking is making posts in thread to make it seem like you're doing something. This is just lurking.

I disagree; active lurking is sort of, like, maybe echoing thoughts here and there, obviously reading the thread but providing no info at all, etc.

I think being in the thread a lot but saying nothing can count as active lurking.

Why are you buddying with BBM?

##Vote: Bluedoom

stop it

##Vote: bluedoom

no stop it

three minutes in between votes

Well, I don't really find Excellen scummy because I agree with him about RVS being useless if people know the votes are meaningless, and IIRC he was pretty abrasive for the one phase he played in GSM.

Yeah, I agree; Excellen really does strike me as protown right now. His aggressiveness is different from Manix is that he seems more frustrated in general than completely pushy.

And no you can stack votes against me if you wish.

DEFEATIST ATTITUDE TOWARDS A LYNCH IS NOT A 100% SCUMTELL

and he's not even saying "go ahead and lynch me," he's saying he doesn't care if he gets a vote train

Why does it seem as if you don't give a fuck? I was originally planning on voting you earlier when you voted blitz with no reasoning but it's gone beyond that. ##Vote: Bluedoom You don't like blitz for a reason you won't say to us and that's why you want him lynched. Sorry if you want him lynched you need a better reason than that.

... ew

I don't like this post >:

It kind of gives me the feeling that you're trying to make it seem like you've had an incentive to vote him all along to make it seem more legitimate, not to mention you pretty much copied everyone else's reasons for it.

I'm not trying to rely too much on meta but

i think marth is town

manix is giving me weird feelings and kay kinda posted two or three one-liners and disappeared from what I remember

also shinori's marth vote was icky >:

[Strawman]

As more things started coming out, everyone started getting more defensive, which is making it hard for me to get clear reads. Too many times I have voted for the wrong person and it annoys me. Straw, you voted for Eclipse while saying that Eclipse was contradicting some of the things she said before. Can you please provide me with what you had in mind when you made that post please? I'm curious as to what you think you found.

These three posts.

This is RVS time. Stage discussion will come naturally.

What are your thoughts, Proto?

As this is RVS, with very few people even here to say something, I think we should hold off on stage discussion. Let's wait until over half the game has something of importance to say first.

With these posts its hard for me to tell whether or not she was supporting or postponing the discussion Proto had brought up. In any case she still never actually gave her opinion on it.

[Strawman]

Lol, forgot the third quote. Here:

I think a better chunk of the game needs to show up, and place/respond to votes. Once there's some solid reads, people can determine where they want go, stage-wise.

[Shinori]

It's not really joining an easy wagon when and echoing when I had the same thoughts originally and just wasn't around to post them at first. Meh, whatever you think though, that's fine to me.

However my vote stays until he answers my question. At least part of it, as I stated in my last post.

[Blitz]

just thought I should make a post before I am done reading the thread [i only read the last two pages] and I think if Marth wants put a vote on me, he can be my guest and at everyone who says my role info could be given to Marth, I don't find that possible because I know I am not mafia, but to each their own I guess. I have no idea on what Marth is trying to do, but I am glad he started up this gigantic discussion [which I still have yet to finish reading thoroughly] as for SB, I am not sure how he plays. As for Subei, she seems like she wants to be on everyone's good side and I can't tell if it is a scum tell or is it just her normal self.

I could have missed these, but did Naggy make a post after the reply to my post?

and in answer to Naggy's reply, inconsistency is a very good scum tell, but I will admit my language skills need work.

also, Shinori should put more effort in the game

at Excellen, I don't find numbers a valid scum tell because I like talking about it all the time.

and I should finish reading, btw, I have a class in 15mins

[Blitz]

edit

never mind the Naggy not posting thing

[BBM]

I'm getting pretty good protown vibes from Naglfar and Bizz atm. However, one bit in your post confused me Bizz, so I'm not sure if you mixed people up, but why did you say that Manix was buddying up to me? While not being directly against each other, we presented quite different opinions.

About Eclipse being mainly inactive, IIRC I remember her saying something about being away most of today in another thread. So I wouldn't read too much into that.

[Strawman]

I did not vote her for inactivity...

[Jotaro Kujo]

To me, it seems that Eclipse is trying to postpone the discussion until more people show up. Those don't seem very contradictory to me, but it's 12:30 so I'm a little tired, and therefore, might not be getting all of it. I think that when Eclipse was asking Proto for his thoughts, she meant his thoughts on the game so far.

Still not getting good reads yet. Maybe after I sleep I will.

[BBM]

You just made a small mention about most of her posts being in the early phase, so I was talking about that. I know that that wasn't your reason for voting for her, and if that's how it came off, that was a mistake.

[Strawman]

You just made a small mention about most of her posts being in the early phase, so I was talking about that. I know that that wasn't your reason for voting for her, and if that's how it came off, that was a mistake.

Oh yeah that wasn't supposed to be part of the reasoning. If someone's busy with their life, they're busy with their life and that doesn't have any bearing on scumminess.

To me, it seems that Eclipse is trying to postpone the discussion until more people show up. Those don't seem very contradictory to me, but it's 12:30 so I'm a little tired, and therefore, might not be getting all of it. I think that when Eclipse was asking Proto for his thoughts, she meant his thoughts on the game so far.

Still not getting good reads yet. Maybe after I sleep I will.

Ah ok that makes more sense. Still doesn't seem to me like real content in terms of discussion and opinions and etc. Why I want to hear more from her whenever she can get back in here.

[Kriemhild]

Except she made that post really early on, when there weren't much stuff to post thoughts on. Anyways, I still think there were some Mafia members involved in the Blues bandwagon, and Shinori still seems the most suspicious from among them.

Shinori, here's a question. Why do you want to pressure Blues? If he has some info that makes him find Blitzy scummy, why do you want him to reveal it? The fact that he has a reason to find Blitzy scummy does not make him look scummy as well. Him revealing his reasons why is throwing free info to the Mafia for no good reason.

His vote for Blitzy does not seem scummy at all. Refusal to give reasons shows that he has no intention of getting others to vote for Blitzy, so he most definitely was not trying to score a mislynch as a Mafia would. As far as I can see, the only reason he was being voted for is because he implied that he knew something but refused to share it. I see absolutely no reason for him to reveal it.

Shinori, do you think anybody that has info that makes someone seem slightly scummier than usual should immediately announce it to everyone so that the Mafia can guess their roles? Blues wasn't even pushing for a Blitzy lynch, so why were are you still pushing for a Blues lynch?

[Grace]

Okay, so in my absence (had to clean up a lot of stuff, long story), I got to thinking. As much as I don't like what Marth did, the defeatist attitude is kinda telling me that he's just probably town who made a mistake, and it's drawing us away from the real scum. Particularly if he's anything like me (which it does seem that way). Hmmm.

##Unvote for now. Next on my list was SB, so: ##Vote: SB for stuff I said earlier (ie; jumping to conclusions far too quickly).

[Shinori]

I said a few posts ago i would be fine if he would just tell me if he was probing for a reaction or not. I don't want him to reveal exactly what he said. I mean whatever. If other people don't find it scummy that's your decision. I still don't like it. What roles have blatant information on other PLAYERS Day 1 with no night 0. Scum, lovers, and the what not. There was no night and no one would get any type of reports, so to me I saw it as a blatant lie to us, the town. Of course maybe I'm just overreacting, I tend to do that if i catch someone in a lie, check SFM mafia when i lynched a bomb. But unless he was a very specific role he wouldn't have any other information on him, which is the biggest thing that confuses me, and I don't like it. It's as simple as that.

Fine if you don't want to press him for the info that he 'supposedly' has, don't, and I won't either. ##Unvote I still don't like it. Let me get my thoughts together on other players and I'll place a different vote.

Also don't tell me I'm the most scummy just because I came up last on the fucking wagon, that's just stupid. 5 people out of 19 players. I was the fifth cause I wasn't around, and I stated I wouldn't be around. Let me ask if I had been #3 on the wagon with the same exact post I had had then, would I have been seen as scummy? Or is everyone just looking at me with some stupid faulty logic of the slowest person is obviously scum?

[Shinori]

Also. Figured I would add this. I NEVER FUCKING SAID I WAS PUSHING FOR HIS LYNCH PROTO. I SAID I WANTED HIM TO ANSWER MY ONE GOD DAMN QUESTION.

.........I think.

[Shinori]

My two relevant posts has been due to the fact that I've been playing Xbox or PS3 all day. Like, literally, all day. Sorry about the inactivity, I've just been lazy today and yesterday with mafia related stuff. However the way I currently feel about bluedoom hasn't changed and I still want some sort of answer from him, it doesn't even have to be anything super specific, I just wanna know if he was bullshitting just for some sort of reaction or if he does have some way of actually some how having information already. Thus, I need to go read the last page.

The question I wanted answered.

[eclipse]

I need to reread the mess that doesn't involve me a second time (at least). For now. . .

Yo, real vote time.

##Vote:Eclipse

So your posts are all in the early phase and they're all very short which is nbd really. But the problem i have is that at least three of your posts are all along the lines of "This is RVS lets not talk about stages now(/it'll probably come up later)." Which when that and discussion on RVS were the only things brought up, it didn't seem like you wanted to be apart of either of them. And then it gets confusing because in your fist post about stage discussion that gives of a "we shouldn't talk about that now" vibe also asks Proto his thoughts on it, when he was the one who brought it up originally. So then with that and your later two posts it seemed you were either contradicting yourself, but also not at the same time. It seems like you wanted to contribute without really contributing much. Most of your posts also seem to focus on waiting on/wanting input of others with very little of your own input so far.

And thoughts on Blitz, since he was hot topic discussion and in the discussion earlier in the day. Blits is coming off as his normal Blitzy self with lots of jumpy votes and lots of short posts/responses. Actions want to me to put him as a slightly scummy read. Meta wants me to put him as slightly town read. His Nags vote was initially scummy, but I think his explanation made it better.

if you have multiple suspicions its not like you can vote for all of them at the same time :/

Stating suspicions without a vote can be useful if you find multiple people vote worthy but you haven't quite decided which you want to pressure/pressure first. Of if one of the people you find suspicious already has a ton of votes and you want to get discussion about someone else going as well.

Also, I think a lot of people are taking Marth's vote the wrong way. It isn't a vote that is pushing Blitz to actually get lynched or more votes, aka a vote with tons of reasoning he would want to explain and give away so people agree with him and also vote. It still isn't a "good" vote since its so suspicious, and its definitely lacking any power, but I think it was more meant specifically for Blitz to respond to than for everyone else to respond to. If that makes sense.

Why bring up stages less than three hours into the game, while ignoring everyone else? It felt like an attempt to "contribute", without having to pick/choose lynch targets. I'm rather pleased that most of D1 is about lynch targets, and not stage optimization - it's hard to reaction test over "so where are you going tonight"? There's still plenty of time in the day, so I'd appreciate it if people would pay attention to today's lynch rather than the stage/numbers/how completely unoriginal their role PM flavor is. Stage stuff can wait; I'd rather see reactions and discussions first.

Back to the mess that is several people. Someone send me chocolate, please!