Etrian Odyssey Mafia - Game Over

[Grace]

Other uses for Frailty: Putting it on scum to more easily lynch them, putting it on a townie and claiming it when they hit L-2 to find hammering scum (maybe).

[eclipse]

Other uses for Frailty: Putting it on scum to more easily lynch them, putting it on a townie and claiming it when they hit L-2 to find hammering scum (maybe).

1. Too risky; if the requisite votes aren't hit, it's No Lynch.

2. Even MORE risky; I'd have to claim that hammer is at half the normal votes or something for that to work.

[Grace]

hmmmmm, I guess

how about negating Ibuki if used properly? yeah you still need the votes to lynch, but it counteracts the L+1

[eclipse]

hmmmmm, I guess

how about negating Ibuki if used properly? yeah you still need the votes to lynch, but it counteracts the L+1

First, I'd need to know that Ibuki existed. Second, I'd need to know who it targeted. In other words, not unless I'm psychic.

The GOOD thing about Frailty was that I could test Shinori's role. I guess I could also use it to force a lynch away from someone who I thought was not scummy at all.

[Kaoz]

Congrats to the town.

While I didn't play, I wanted to address one small thing:

fuck namekills.

Just because a good player is killed early doesn't mean it was a name kill. There can be a lot of other reasons for why they are good targets and it's just kinda silly to cry out every time this happens. You don't even know the reasons at that point, so at least wait until the game is over if you really have to complain about it.

[CT075]

Also, Cam (when you see this) ... WTF were you doing?!

If you and I were on a scum team together, and if you started pulling that stuff, I'd be yelling at you so hard.

something along the lines of apathy!town was prooooobably what i had in mind but by the time i was in the right timezone to deal with it i had already gone and said stupid shit

also manix you bastard for giving us duplicate fakeclaims to the town ;/

[Grace]

yeah, the fakeclaims weren't the best, but the idea behind it was to make people think, "What if there are duplicate abilities?" Although mind you, considering no one even mentioned the fact the every one that flipped had limited abilities, and people probably assumed that duplicates couldn't be present (like a normal game). :/

If town had duplicate abilities though... oh that could have been fun.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Manix

[Percivalé]

Hey manix if you're online get on msn

Sorry, return to your scheduled endgame

[CT075]

out of curiosity how does 'endgamed by town' work

[Grace]

out of curiosity how does 'endgamed by town' work

too many easy clears and easily seen through lies after Helios' flipped

[Elieson]

GG town!

Sorry I couldn't help after D 1/2.

And....interesting setup

[Scarlet]

That was short.

[Balcerzak]

No Moribito? I am disappoint.

Look, you made her cry.

At least you had these two:

[riariadne]

And with that, you have doomed the world to eventually die out. Good job guys.

oh so you're trying to guilt-trip us for winning

[Deliriyum]

my reads weren't half bad

[Original Alear]

No Moribito? I am disappoint.

Look, you made her cry.

At least you had these two:

I was thinking about those dudes....

when I first saw this thread I was hoping there would be some sort of FOE serial killer or something @_@

And with that, you have doomed the world to eventually die out. Good job guys.

Was this actually in EO1? It's been so long I don't remember.

[/b]

Edited August 21, 2012 by L1049

[Grace]

oh so you're trying to guilt-trip us for winning

hey, it's the storyline

don't blame me

No Moribito? I am disappoint.

I couldn't think of a good role for her, so sue me

Edited August 21, 2012 by Manix

[Rapier]

yeah, the fakeclaims weren't the best, but the idea behind it was to make people think, "What if there are duplicate abilities?" Although mind you, considering no one even mentioned the fact the every one that flipped had limited abilities, and people probably assumed that duplicates couldn't be present (like a normal game). :/

If town had duplicate abilities though... oh that could have been fun.

I thought there were duplicates. That's why I chose to stay on Cam's side on D2. Yeah, I failed miserably. XD

At least I was right about Core and Helios. Gimme some dozens of Mafias and I'll stop sucking!

[CT075]

i stand by my statement that manix giving me a fakeclaim that was very nearly identical to iris' role was a bastard move ;/

[eclipse]

I thought there were duplicates. That's why I chose to stay on Cam's side on D2. Yeah, I failed miserably. XD

At least I was right about Core and Helios. Gimme some dozens of Mafias and I'll stop sucking!

Core was town, Helios wasn't?

I think you'll need to be able to put your life on pause for those dozen mafias, because spotposting in them won't help you improve!

[Grace]

Okay so, have your day analysis and setup notes. Stuff in there applies to everyone, not just the person’s posts I linked (the second part of postgame will detail player analysis and actions.)

[spoiler=Day One]blah RVS blah. When the whole problem with the two presented claims arose, people thought Cam was town after fluffing about his fakeclaim, but jumped on Shinori for not saying anything about what his role was? Okay people, what’s up with that?

Everyone clearly forgot about this post. Seriously people, you probably should consider rereading before jumping to assumptions. Not impressed.

And then he crumbs his role again, which no one apparently took a whole lot of notice of.

And did everyone seriously miss this pretty obvious crumb by Cam. Seriously, can’t be doc protected and possible PGO crumb (and then after he claimed it, no one went back and looked at this)? And then investigations are not a good idea for “certain” reasons? That should have been pretty obvious. Apathetic =/= town, btw.

Thank you thank you. Seriously people, if you have a dangerous anti-town role as town, just say it plainly. And no one else should be claiming at all during D1 aside from being a lynch wagon at L-1 (and Miller/PGO etc.).

Can we not make assumptions like this, please? It’s quite painful to read.

Surprised that this post didn’t draw a lot of attention, because cop claiming D1 isn’t wise at all, even with a guilty result (seriously, I’ve done it before, and it sucked for the rest of the game.). You’re probably better off getting a second result before outing, personally. Some people didn’t like Elie “rolefishing”, so why did Paper get a free pass here?

The lynch was horrible. Seriously, with 4 people not voting and just barely enough people voting to lynch Rapier is disappointing. I’m still a bit disappointed in Rapier for not claiming, but he couldn’t have at that time, so. :/

But can we not actually lynch someone for inactivity? I don’t even know why Rapier was even considered as a lynch target, because he did contribute more than people gave him credit for. (see this post by Paper on D2) You had two other easy wagons (Cam and Helios) that you could have pushed instead. See above for why you should have lynched Cam. Helios was also put under a lot of pressure and looked pretty bad, and couldn’t bring himself out of it. So what compelled you to lynch Rapier instead? (And to the people not voting; you are horrible. You could have pushed something.)

And everyone was saying that Helios was laying low… come on, push the scummy players. Not the inactives which aren’t looking that scummy (and can we stop misrep’ing players, like this.).

This is also forgetting the fact that there was the activity burst at deadline. Can we stop doing things at the last moment? It will only end badly for town most of the time. And even considering all the activity, you only managed a minimum lynch. ;/

[spoiler=Day Two]Day Two set out very quickly with Helios reaching L-2 within half an hourish. Yeah. And then you started jumping on Cam because of roleclaim. The problem lies in that you shouldn’t assume anything about the setup until proved. While yes, Cam was eventually lynched, you can’t make that assumption about duplicate roles. Like Cam did here. Heck, I even said to the scumteam that I couldn’t confirm duplicates, so that probably should have been a warning sign. And then I also said it in thread. :/

There was also a bit of fuss about Shinori’s claim, Cam’s claim, and Helios’ claim. I covered Cam above. But I need to reiterate that proving your role =/= indicate alignment. It was mentioned many times, but my problem here was that people didn’t apply the same logic to Shinori and Iris. Can we get some consistency here?

holy bussing batman. And also, what would have happened if it was scum!Cam? That wouldn’t have cleared either Iris nor Shinori. :/

Bingo. I definitely don’t like flavour scumhunting, so Prims said I needed to remove one of the classes from town so people couldn’t assume that. Although on the note of flavour, flip around to the hammer post. Throughout all the flavour, I gave subtle hints as to what may have happened during play. For example here; I alluded to the possibility of something bad happening with the chanting (and it was noted in Paper’s Role PM). The N1 kill flavour also had the crumb of Cam’s superkill, and the N2 kill had Visil’s secret put in the flavour. In other words; you might want to pay attention to the flavour a little more in my games.

And then Cam selfhammered. Deprived town of all of three hours of discussion. :/

At least there wasn’t another activity burst near the end of the day.

[spoiler=Day Three]Begin with masshook. Surprise. Then discussion ensues around massclaiming, which was definitely the best move at the time, but maybe might have been better to just outright claim, instead of doing popcorn claiming. You never know if the mafia already has fakes given to them (hint: they did), so there’s really not much point to popcorn claiming, imo. You can’t really catch mafia out on D3 on their fakeclaims (you really should have one prepared by then, particularly in smaller games).

Rein was put at L-1 at this post. Helios didn’t put in an action for his day persuade between then and and here. ;/

And Paper was deciding on whether to try and hammer it on IRC (private chat), but it was too late as Aere unvoted.

Ouch. Another small slip up, which proved costly. Although mind you, if you looked at the priority list, his hook wouldn’t have stopped the neighbour conversation from happening anyway. Sooooooooooooo yeah.

And I don’t even know how people thought the Helios/Core scumteam made sense. Guys, you established on D2 that for Core to confirm the neighbour PM with Helios would just be a deathwish as buddies. So what changed your minds? In other words; be consistent, please.

And the hammer occurred in about 4 and a half hours. Good form.

[spoiler=Endgame]On the Helios lynch, it would be revealed that he had the neighbourizer, which most people would have immediately thought that Paper was lying about his hook (even though priority). But best case, Core probably would have been the next lynch, but that would have proved his tracker result and Paper would have to deal with a minimum of two other clears. Which is impossible to get out of in best case scenario. :/

This indicates a small problem with the balance, in that town had too many possible clears, and that two little slip ups cost scum the game. Rest assured I’m keeping stuff like this in mind for my future games.

[spoiler=Setup Notes]So the idea behind the setup was to have every active ability be limited in use. The passive abilities were unlimited, but still had conditions on them. (disables in LYLO, only is active if not searching). The implications of it for lategame were unseen, mostly because the game ended on D3. Eventually, most roles would become functional vanillas, meaning people couldn’t rely on their roles to prove them (which backfired horribly because I didn’t think some things through). Also, some roles had far too many ability shots to get to that point at all. Stuff to keep in mind if I decide to run a setup with similar mechanics to this one.

In terms of numbers, it was a fairly standard 9/3 setup. Factoring in the vig shot (misvigging that is), it meant that town had 2 mislynches. However, not factoring in the revive (because the revived really shouldn’t be staying alive long(which was the case)). The problem lies that I think that two mislynches is too many, but one isn’t enough. :/ Would the setup have been better with 8/3 (1 mislynch + vig shot or 2 mislynches), or something different?

I decided to try out no mafia daytalk. Didn't quite work out quite how I wanted it to. The mafia needed to prepare during the night for most possibilities for the day, but they didn't really. :/

tl;dr: People need to be more consistent in applying criteria across the entire playerset, inactivity is not a scumtell in some cases, and you need to reread.

All of this is far too common amongst SF players, and something needs to be done about it.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Manix

[Sunwoo]

I know I didn't participate in this round, but I actually think that two mislynches is fair. One mislynch pretty much screws over town, while three is a bit too lenient.

[Deliriyum]

Why does crumbing your role=mafia?

[Grace]

it's specifically what we said while crumbing. "Inspections are a bad idea."

[CT075]

for a game this size 2 mislynches is probably fair