Fire Emblem: Exalted Legacy

[Book of Ereshkigal]

And I've been saying that I'm working on it. Calm yo' tits.

Sorry ^.^

[Teapot]

I don't want to sound rude, but... Shouldn't you guys be trying to have people playing the game and following the project, instead of asking them to go away at the first "I don't like this part, please consider changing it, here's why" ?

(Or calling them "son" for that matter?)

Nobody's asking him to go away; I just said nobody is forcing him to follow or play it.

Allow me to clarify that the last part pertained to the mug in question: if you disagree with my mug, then please feel free to make your own interpretation and submit it to the project. Arch isn't an obstinate twit; if he finds something that better suits his purpose, he'll use it, and I'll gladly cede to a better submission. So there. o 3o~

@L95 - Nah, bro. It's cool.

Edited November 22, 2012 by · j e a l o u s y ·

[Miacis]

Nobody's asking him to go away; I just said nobody is forcing him to follow or play it.

And if he likes everything in the game but a specific part of the planning, the only alternative you're offering is ... giving up on following/playing the whole project? Oookay.

Allow me to clarify that the last part pertained to the mug in question: if you disagree with my mug, then please feel free to make your own interpretation and submit it to the project. Arch isn't an obstinate twit; if he finds something that better suits his purpose, he'll use it, and I'll gladly cede to a better submission. So there. o 3o~

So basically, if you're not a spriter, you have no say in what's showcased here. Everything is on rails, and the happy passengers can only stop the train at their favorite station if they can go and stop the engine themselves. Oh, and if you don't like our train compagny, you can just go see our competitors.

Sure "you can't please everyone". But you can't just ignore your target audience either.

I dunno. I'll just leave it at that. It just feels a bit silly to me that it takes 4 pages of people arguing about a mug to get one change on the eyes. And even then, any other suggestion or feedback instantly becomes a struggle and an invitation to elitist remarks ("if you can't do it yourself, don't waste your time here," pretty much). Heck, I'm not even sure if my sprite feedback in the previous post was noticed.

Whatever. Good luck on the project everyone.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Miacis

[Dark Sage]

Reiteration occurs because being reasonable is clearly a trait y'all seem to be lacking in.

Really now. Please show me where people have been unreasonable because all I've seen is reasonable critique (such as Marth's eyes being slanted, clashing styles, etc.). Now you have addressed a few complaints and I commend you for that, but you only did so after much grumbling and reluctance. I mean nobody was insulting your work or anything so basically it seems like you're being defensive for no good reason.

Nobody's asking him to go away; I just said nobody is forcing him to follow or play it.

Do you know what implications are.

Nobody's asking him to go away; I just said nobody is forcing him to follow or play it.

Allow me to clarify that the last part pertained to the mug in question: if you disagree with my mug, then please feel free to make your own interpretation and submit it to the project. Arch isn't an obstinate twit; if he finds something that better suits his purpose, he'll use it, and I'll gladly cede to a better submission. So there. o 3o~

Ok, what if someone has some complaints about the mug but doesn't know how to sprite? Does that mean that these people have no voice? They're not allowed to speak up? Because if so, its rather close-minded of you.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Tyrant Sage

[CT075]

i think problem a is that everyone is thinking this marth is the same as the one portrayed in fe11/12

the short answer is that it's not

[7:08:03 PM] Cam: i'm beginning to think that arch should take the dof approach to PR

[7:08:06 PM] Cam: "lol fuk u"

Edited November 23, 2012 by CT075

[Anouleth]

Look, son, nobody's making you play the game if you don't agree with it.

Go ahead and make your own if it bothers you so much. o 3o~

What? When did I say I didn't like it? Please, do point it out. I think there are many issues with FE11 as a remake of FE1, since IntSys didn't change the level design at all (and it shows). And I think that a hack like this is a good idea, even if only to fix that one thing.

And if I'm not mistaken, Arch isn't making this hack to satisfy himself. He's making it because he thinks other people will enjoy it. So any and all opinions that people have about any aspect of this hack, including your sprites, are 100% relevant. He's free to correct me if I'm wrong about him, but that's the impression I get.

i think problem a is that everyone is thinking this marth is the same as the one portrayed in fe11/12

the short answer is that it's not

He's not... a girl in disguise, is he?

Edited November 23, 2012 by Anouleth

[Teapot]

And if he likes everything in the game but a specific part of the planning, the only alternative you're offering is ... giving up on following/playing the whole project? Oookay.

The only alternative I've "offered" is to try creating your own interpretation, mate.

Which leads to this:

So basically, if you're not a spriter, you have no say in what's showcased here. Everything is on rails, and the happy passengers can only stop the train at their favorite station if they can go and stop the engine themselves. Oh, and if you don't like our train compagny, you can just go see our competitors.

Say what. I believe I clearly stated that if there's a technical issue that needed fixing on the mug, I'd get around to it, and if that wasn't good enough, it'd be more than acceptable to have a replacement for it. In your train analogy, that would be more along the lines of "Oh, I'm sorry, is there a problem? Then we'll try to adjust it for you. If that adjustment just doesn't suit you, then we'll happily seat you somewhere else, or perhaps fund you with another ride."

Sure "you can't please everyone". But you can't just ignore your target audience either.

I dunno. I'll just leave it at that. It just feels a bit silly to me that it takes 4 pages of people arguing about a mug to get one change on the eyes. And even then, any other suggestion or feedback instantly becomes a struggle and an invitation to elitist remarks ("if you can't do it yourself, don't waste your time here," pretty much). Heck, I'm not even sure if my sprite feedback in the previous post was noticed.

Oh, I don't intend to please everyone, but if things stand to be so controversial over one mug, I - once again - would happily cede to a mug both Arch and the majority finds more suitable. I don't honestly care if my sprites are used or not, because the project isn't about me; it's about Arch. All I care is that he gets some quality sprites for his work, because he does such a good job of things, and I honestly respect him as a person and a hacker. I don't want to make more trouble for him than I probably already have, and if it's easier to replace what I've done, then taking the easy way out would be infinitely more preferable, wouldn't it?

That aside, it hasn't taken four pages of arguing to get the change; the changes were already in progress from the first few comments that involved feedback. The four pages involved was just petty quibbling over the nature of the controversy. Again, I having been making edits to the mug regarding technical issues that have been addressed, but I am not changing my design in the least, and I don't really think Arch will be changing his interpretation of Marth's character, either.

@Anouleth - I never said you didn't like it, mate; don't put words in my mouth. Agree =/= like.

Edited November 23, 2012 by · j e a l o u s y ·

[eCut]

My time to step in:

Time to stop the argument about Marth guys, at least it is time to stop doing it here. I let it slide at first since it is technically on-topic but it's gone a bit too far.

We all are entitled to our opinions but it's to the point where you're all sort of just a beating a dead horse. It is ultimately up to Arch on how he wants his hack to be, not ours. There is nothing more anyone can say that hasn't already been said.

If Jelly wants to change the sprite, she can, if not, then she doesn't have to. It's what Arch wants so leave it be.

So, to reiterate, stop arguing here and take it to pm/skype/what have you. I am more than certain Arch doesn't want all of this nonsense here.

Edited November 23, 2012 by eCut

[Arch]

Why does shit always hit the fan when I'm busy vacationing with no real Internet?

I'm not really in a position to extensively respond to everything right now (it's my vacation, guys). However, I must say that I always listen and fairly consider everything that people post. When there are legitimate critiques, I listen.

Now, as to the criticism of my interpretation of Marth. He cares deeply for his comrades and respects everyone who fights by his side. He weeps for their deaths. Idealistic and compassionate, but these traits are weighed down by the reality Marth finds himself in. That's what I'm looking to explore, how the weight of the world has affected our protagonist. People see him as the savior, and that's an incredible burden to bear. He's seen his nation fall, his family is dead, and now he must be the hope for a world confronted with an incredible darkness. He's still a compassionate and idealistic man, and perhaps a child at heart in some ways, but tempered by reality.

[bottlegnomes]

Now, as to the criticism of my interpretation of Marth. He cares deeply for his comrades and respects everyone who fights by his side. He weeps for their deaths. Idealistic and compassionate, but these traits are weighed down by the reality Marth finds himself in. That's what I'm looking to explore, how the weight of the world has affected our protagonist. People see him as the savior, and that's an incredible burden to bear. He's seen his nation fall, his family is dead, and now he must be the hope for a world confronted with an incredible darkness. He's still a compassionate and idealistic man, and perhaps a child at heart in some ways, but tempered by reality.

I like that idea, but as Miacis said, static characters are boring. Maybe have him start out thinking he'll be able to get people to follow him easily because he's doing the right thing, but as time passes, have him realize how difficult it is to lead a war. Expanding on his hatred of Gra and how it progresses would help him be more dynamic, too.

[Alfred Kamon]

So much desease over a single sprite.

I don't want to continue the arguing after eCut's post, just wanted to say to Jealousy that it may be difficult to accept critiques sometimes and you obviously aren't constricted to listen to them either. But you shouldn't go with the attitude that accepting those critiques from people who can't sprite is a weakness, because I think everyone can say what they think properly and that's just up to you (and in this case, to Arch) to decide if that critique is good or not for your purposes. But the line 'if you don't like it, submit a better work yourself' is very childish and harsh.

On the other side, people shouldn't be so hard on jealousy in front of such a piece of art. I find this sprite Gorgeous and I don't have any complains about it. Please remember that critiquing is a good thing, but critiquing too much may be hard on the person's mind. After someone does a work he has put his efforts in it, he would expect some compliments before some critiques, and here we have like few posts of compliments and 4-5 pages of critiques which isn't fair. Probably Jealousy's reaction also is due to this, and I personally know that it's hard to bear all these opinions. You have my support.

Don't say "if you can't bear the critiques then don't even post your work" because it's a childish sentence at the same level of "if you don't like it, submit a better work". I think we should all try getting along on these forums instead of constantly flaming each other for silly reasons.

I stop here.

I like that idea, but as Miacis said, static characters are boring.

I don't see what from Arch's description of the character seems 'static' to you, battlegnomes, and I'm sure he will do a great job with HIS hack main character, no need to worry. ; )

[bottlegnomes]

I don't see what from Arch's description of the character seems 'static' to you, battlegnomes, and I'm sure he will do a great job with HIS hack main character, no need to worry. ; )

He doesn't mention any area in which Marth will grow. A character that doesn't grow is the definition of a static character. He may very well have areas where he plans on progressing Marth's character, but I can't know that unless he mentions them.

Edited November 24, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Anouleth]

He doesn't mention any area in which Marth will grow. A character that doesn't grow is the definition of a static character. He may very well have areas where he plans on progressing Marth's character, but I can't know that unless he mentions them.

Well, I imagine that Marth will display growth in all the typical areas: HP, STR, DEF, and so on.

[Arch]

He doesn't mention any area in which Marth will grow. A character that doesn't grow is the definition of a static character. He may very well have areas where he plans on progressing Marth's character, but I can't know that unless he mentions them.

Well, it could be that I was talking about my vision of the character at base, and discussing the essentials of my interpretation. Of course he won't be a static character. Have a little more faith in me, Gnomes!

Well, I imagine that Marth will display growth in all the typical areas: HP, STR, DEF, and so on.

His defense growth has never been that great...

Jokes aside, one of my major goals for improvement is clearly the writing. FE1's script followed the same template each chapter (one bit of opening text, one bit of ending text explaining what's happening next), and it's pretty baffling that Intelligent Systems did so little to fix this. Marth only ever really speaks to Nyna and Malledus, and the amount of text where someone's just talking at Marth (ala King Talys, who wasn't even named) is simply egregious. Characters need development, they need backstories, and the script needs to be extensively improved. It's one of my big focuses for this remake.

[Bladehero22]

Well, it could be that I was talking about my vision of the character at base, and discussing the essentials of my interpretation. Of course he won't be a static character. Have a little more faith in me, Gnomes!

His defense growth has never been that great...

Jokes aside, one of my major goals for improvement is clearly the writing. FE1's script followed the same template each chapter (one bit of opening text, one bit of ending text explaining what's happening next), and it's pretty baffling that Intelligent Systems did so little to fix this. Marth only ever really speaks to Nyna and Malledus, and the amount of text where someone's just talking at Marth (ala King Talys, who wasn't even named) is simply egregious. Characters need development, they need backstories, and the script needs to be extensively improved. It's one of my big focuses for this remake.

A dive into the character's backstories? Yay, more text!

[bottlegnomes]

Well, I imagine that Marth will display growth in all the typical areas: HP, STR, DEF, and so on.

Touche.

Well, it could be that I was talking about my vision of the character at base, and discussing the essentials of my interpretation. Of course he won't be a static character. Have a little more faith in me, Gnomes!

Yeah, that came off as a lot more pissy than I meant. I do. A lot. You're literally the only person who's made a serious hack that I find even remotely engaging in terms of story.

His defense growth has never been that great...

Jokes aside, one of my major goals for improvement is clearly the writing. FE1's script followed the same template each chapter (one bit of opening text, one bit of ending text explaining what's happening next), and it's pretty baffling that Intelligent Systems did so little to fix this. Marth only ever really speaks to Nyna and Malledus, and the amount of text where someone's just talking at Marth (ala King Talys, who wasn't even named) is simply egregious. Characters need development, they need backstories, and the script needs to be extensively improved. It's one of my big focuses for this remake.

Always nice to hear about more character development. Are you considering supports in addition to expanded story dialogue? I feel like you said this already; I just have the memory span of a small rodent.

Anyway, if you want any help with story--critiquing, kicking ideas around, whatever--I'd be happy to help.

[Teapot]

So much desease over a single sprite.

I don't want to continue the arguing after eCut's post, just wanted to say to Jealousy that it may be difficult to accept critiques sometimes and you obviously aren't constricted to listen to them either. But you shouldn't go with the attitude that accepting those critiques from people who can't sprite is a weakness, because I think everyone can say what they think properly and that's just up to you (and in this case, to Arch) to decide if that critique is good or not for your purposes. But the line 'if you don't like it, submit a better work yourself' is very childish and harsh.

On the other side, people shouldn't be so hard on jealousy in front of such a piece of art. I find this sprite Gorgeous and I don't have any complains about it. Please remember that critiquing is a good thing, but critiquing too much may be hard on the person's mind. After someone does a work he has put his efforts in it, he would expect some compliments before some critiques, and here we have like few posts of compliments and 4-5 pages of critiques which isn't fair. Probably Jealousy's reaction also is due to this, and I personally know that it's hard to bear all these opinions. You have my support.

Don't say "if you can't bear the critiques then don't even post your work" because it's a childish sentence at the same level of "if you don't like it, submit a better work". I think we should all try getting along on these forums instead of constantly flaming each other for silly reasons.

I stop here.

It's not about the critique. I've only repeated myself to death saying that I will, and have been addressing the suggestions; just because you aren't getting a play-by-play report on the sprite's status does not mean it's not happening. I have never once stated that you had to be a spriter to offer a suggestion - I have only said that I'd like some reasoning to accompany the addressed factor so I might gain some insight into the nature of the error. I appreciate technical critique; however, asking me to "match my style to the other sprites," unfortunately, doesn't quite apply to the situation. I am not Niharu or Lumi or any of the other major spriters for the project, and I don't intend to change my style; this has very little to do with the sprite's technical errors. I don't care if you're a spriter or not; for the last time, I don't care who offers critique.

The only reason I've extended the offer to others to create their own interpretation (read: it doesn't have to be a sprite) if they aren't satisfied with mine is because it's an quicker and easier alternative. I'm absolutely not offended by the goings on; the only thing that mildly irks me is the fact everyone seems to be under the impression I'm an unyielding wall of text who can't accept critique.

Let me state this in simple bold text, so y'all might not glaze over the next time I post:

• I don't care who gives critique.
  
• I am semi-actively working on the fixes on my own time.
  
• I not obligated to post every edit I make.
  
• The premise and overall design will not change.
  
• I would like to solve the issue quickly and easily, whether by...
  
• ...replacing what I have with a better idea or interpretation, or...
  
• ...replacing what I have with an entirely new sprite offered by someone else.
  
• I like simple alternatives and compromise if agreements cannot be reached with the original issue.
  
• I have no idea why people are still arguing about the sprite.
  
• The sprite is a trivial issue that has already been addressed.
  
• Unless you have more critique to offer, I would appreciate it if we kept the sprite discussion to a minimum.

[eCut]

• Unless you have more critique to offer, I would appreciate it if we kept the sprite discussion to a minimum.

Indeed.

@Alfred Kamon: You do realize that your very post is a continuation of the argument, yes? Even if you say that you don't want to after my post, you still are. The entire part of your post that's directed towards Jealousy does not belong here and should have been sent to her privately. Please do not do so again. If you want to respond to Jealousy's post then you can pm her.

Now, since some of us does not like to listen:

Any who decide that they want to keep arguing and complaining about Marth's sprite, or about Jealousy, in this thread without leaving actual critique like she wants, will receive a warning.

This is not the place for it.

Edited November 24, 2012 by eCut

[ThisProfileNoLongerUsed]

...So, how about that Gordin, ya'll?

Also, I really like the portraits on the characters. Gives them more variety, IMO.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Rokk

[secondworld]

Hopefuly he'll have better strength and speed.

Edited November 27, 2012 by RayDavid99

[Arch]

It's amazing how a frilled shirt makes Gomer instantly more memorable than 95% of the bosses in FE1. I'm looking at you, Heimler.

All hail Mayor Gomer! And Ponih, of course, for the awesome sprite.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Arch

[Komeiji Koishi]

Gomer is now the best boss ever. Inb4 Gomer meme.

[fuzz94]

<3 the frilled shirt, and the rest of the sprite too.

Also hi Raven

[Arch]

Also hi Raven

Oh yeah it's a crossover hack now.

I'm still waiting for Ogma's mug. Mewi's got a solid base, but there are some fixes needed until I insert it. It's killing me not having it too, Ogma's got so much dialogue I could be screening.

Also, onward to Chapter 3. Stay tuned!

Edited November 28, 2012 by Arch

[fuzz94]

Oh yeah it's a crossover hack now.

fuck yeah, cross overs rule

I'm still waiting for Ogma's mug. Mewi's got a solid base, but there are some fixes needed until I insert it. It's killing me not having it too, Ogma's got so much dialogue I could be screening.

I've seen it, it actually is very good. Ogma was one of my favs in FE11

Also, onward to Chapter 3. Stay tuned!

Looking forward to it :3

Edited November 28, 2012 by fuzz94