Fire Emblem: Exalted Legacy

[NobodiePichu]

i think everything's being over thought here. i mean really a character comes before gender. hell Marth could be carrot and the important thing about him would be his character not what type of carrot he is.

gah gender equality frustrates me. (i fear the struggle that'll happen when people suddenly realize that bisexuals and pansexuals are a thing in society and the fight for social justice for them.)

[Xinnidy]

I think these changes are getting this much attention because usually when people think of a remake they don't think of characters being cut, let alone genderswapped, which leaves people with a bit of a sour taste in their mouths, courtesy of bad fanfics and the like. They expect the characters to be explored more, but not with a drastic change in their 'essence'... which I guess includes their sex, because it's one of the few things Intelligent Systems cared to give them, or something.

Of course, if arch wants to reinvent FE1, there's no reason stopping it. Some people will get disappointed from having the wrong message prior and will go on an Anti-SJW crusade, but it is fair enough. It wasn't claiming to be that much faithful to the original work to begin with, so Arch has free will to decide what he wants to do to improve it in his view.

I agree with SB that I'd rather the new characters be OCs with their own development rather than taking inspiration from the cut characters, but the hack isn't mine and it isn't my effort being put in. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Uh, wasn't the entire principle of this to be a modernization and reinterpretation and NOT just "let's take Shadow Dragon and just make some changes"? 'Cause I'm pretty sure that was always the plan and that some "big" changes were already going to happen. Given how much of a blank slate was left by Intelligent Systems in all three previous versions of this tale, I don't understand everyone getting their proverbial panties in a twist over what amounts to a small drop in the bucket. I mean, it's not like Marth or Caeda or Hardin, characters that actually had some prior development to them, are now suddenly entirely new characters. (They might have different motivations and changes here and there, but they're still going to be their plot-important selves.)

Since this is basically a rehaul of what Intelligent Systems could have hypothetically done when remaking their first game instead of what we actually got (you know, actually giving it some substance and vastly expanding/improving on the original), I think everyone needs to chill and let Arch work his magic first. At least give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to actually see a more substantive amount of progress to see how his vision is changing and improving things before complaining about the prospective changes. And then, if you don't like them, stop reading the thread and let everyone else that wants to see how Arch trumps the actual developers do just that.

FWIW, I could care less about character genders. I'm interested in this for the promised highly political storyline improvements and actually making the characters that are there actually characters and not just faces with stats.

Is this not a thread for feedback? If people want to criticize something minor, let them. If it's not something you find interesting yourself, I think you have better things to do than chastize them. If the creator already adressed the point, then they'll get the message on their own in due time.

gah gender equality frustrates me. (i fear the struggle that'll happen when people suddenly realize that bisexuals and pansexuals are a thing in society and the fight for social justice for them.)

You might be living under a rock.

V The guy below me is an opinion THIEF

Edited June 25, 2014 by Xinnidy

[Tryhard]

/\ NO U R THIF

S' just my two cents yo.

A character being cut can already leave a sour taste in people's mouths even if the characters in FE1 pretty much had nothing in terms of character development. Let's be real, I doubt many people are going to be fond of genderswapping characters considering what reputation it has in fanfics and in general on the internet, even if the writing is probably going to be drastically superior here. While people will probably be fine with some of the characters being cut because the roster was indeed bloated, swapping the genders of some characters may be seen as drastic and give out the wrong message. It's not that these people would be opposed to more female characters in the game, they might just see the change in gender as a big departure even if the characters are extremely basic, yet hold some sort of relevance for them. (sorry eclipse for cut Tomas, gg)

I think making OCs and just cutting the characters of less interest would cause a lot less problems instead of including a genderswapped version of the characters. If you make it obvious that this is just a genderswapped version of a character (with the exception of Rickard, which at least you're making his sister, so you know what, plausible) people might not take the character (or hack/remake in general) as seriously.

That said gender should hold second importance to characterisation. I'm sure the characters will be a lot more interesting if you're modernising the game, but it has the potential of alienating people who have played the other games which is something I'll imagine you want to avoid. Sure, I could get used to Roger/Beck/Darros/whoever being female now, but it seems very weird. I'll see how the hack in general goes, though.

The last thing I'm gonna do is get buttmad though, because in the end this is Arch's project and I can't force any change.

that said

#SocialJustice

Edited June 25, 2014 by Tryhard

[Siuloir]

I think these changes are getting this much attention because usually when people think of a remake they don't think of characters being cut, let alone genderswapped, which leaves people with a bit of a sour taste in their mouths, courtesy of bad fanfics and the like.

Battlestar Galactica.

Kara Thrace Starbuck is a vastly more interesting character than the original Starbuck.

[Tryhard]

Battlestar Galactica.

Kara Thrace Starbuck is a vastly more interesting character than the original Starbuck.

i've never seen battlestar galactica so I can't really comment but even if there are a few ones that are good, it doesn't stop the rather poor reputation genderswapping has in general

[Arch]

I didn't realize that "genderswap" left such a sour taste in peoples' mouths. Shows how much fan fiction I read.

Anyways, if taking more liberties with the characters is the way to go, I'm all for that. It was always going to be "here's a female character occupying that story role." I was, of course, aiming for "plausible" things (i.e. Rickard's sister). The names I found just doing behindthename on the original name and finding a good female variant based on the suggestions (to reference the characters they replace).

[NobodiePichu]

/\ NO U R THIF

S' just my two cents yo.

A character being cut can already leave a sour taste in people's mouths even if the characters in FE1 pretty much had nothing in terms of character development. Let's be real, I doubt many people are going to be fond of genderswapping characters considering what reputation it has in fanfics and in general on the internet, even if the writing is probably going to be drastically superior here. While people will probably be fine with some of the characters being cut because the roster was indeed bloated, swapping the genders of some characters may be seen as drastic and give out the wrong message. It's not that these people would be opposed to more female characters in the game, they might just see the change in gender as a big departure even if the characters are extremely basic, yet hold some sort of relevance for them. (sorry eclipse for cut Tomas, gg)

I think making OCs and just cutting the characters of less interest would cause a lot less problems instead of including a genderswapped version of the characters. If you make it obvious that this is just a genderswapped version of a character (with the exception of Rickard, which at least you're making his sister, so you know what, plausible) people might not take the character (or hack/remake in general) as seriously.

That said gender should hold second importance to characterisation. I'm sure the characters will be a lot more interesting if you're modernising the game, but it has the potential of alienating people who have played the other games which is something I'll imagine you want to avoid. Sure, I could get used to Roger/Beck/Darros/whoever being female now, but it seems very weird. I'll see how the hack in general goes, though.

The last thing I'm gonna do is get buttmad though, because in the end this is Arch's project and I can't force any change.

that said

#SocialJustice

again i think this is being over thought cause lets face it the bulk of 'characters' in fe1 and 11 had no character so gender swap the appearance shouldn't be a problem. that said gender is important to a character design to the extent of that it needs to serve the character not just that there a gender but that said gender plays an important part in there identity, however in a game like fire emblem it really shouldn't pose that much of a problem as though yes character is important it is neither the focus nor is gender really all that important in shaping there identity's at least 70% of the time so i am all for the small gender swaps as long as the character is not really interfered with.

I didn't realize that "genderswap" left such a sour taste in peoples' mouths. Shows how much fan fiction I read.

Anyways, if taking more liberties with the characters is the way to go, I'm all for that. It was always going to be "here's a female character occupying that story role." I was, of course, aiming for "plausible" things (i.e. Rickard's sister). The names I found just doing behindthename on the original name and finding a good female variant based on the suggestions (to reference the characters they replace).

i have no problems with it and i will be excepting the characters to be close or at least resemble there originals both in appearance and in character (at least what little of it there is) though if you wanna take a few creative liberty's in there personality's to fill in the blanks I'm all for that.

[Tryhard]

I didn't realize that "genderswap" left such a sour taste in peoples' mouths. Shows how much fan fiction I read.

Anyways, if taking more liberties with the characters is the way to go, I'm all for that. It was always going to be "here's a female character occupying that story role." I was, of course, aiming for "plausible" things (i.e. Rickard's sister). The names I found just doing behindthename on the original name and finding a good female variant based on the suggestions (to reference the characters they replace).

Not reading fanfiction is probably the best idea.

I don't really have a problem with it being like that, perhaps other people do here. be more original with names tho

[Robert Stewart]

So Regine or whoever is Rikard's sister? Aw. I was hoping for some Rikard x Navarre/Lena/Castor/Maris supports. Would've been hilarious.

[Tryhard]

Everyone should be renamed Belf and other various comic sound effects.

[Arch]

Fine she's Richelle now and Roger's replacement is Korina.

[NobodiePichu]

i am personally okay with the names arch already has for the replacements. i mean its not the most creative sure but it works and it keeps with the idea of the fact the characters aren't replacements just gender swapped versions of the originals.

[The Iron Rose]

Frankly you should keep with the genderswaps if only to piss off sexists.

But yeah it's a good goal you're working towards and I applaud the effort. Legitimately, I do.

[NobodiePichu]

Frankly you should keep with the genderswaps if only to piss off sexists.

But yeah it's a good goal you're working towards and I applaud the effort. Legitimately, I do.

even more reason to keep it gender swap

[Tryhard]

Are we calling people sexist just for disagreeing with the concept of genderswapping, now?

whatever lel

Edited June 25, 2014 by Tryhard

[The Iron Rose]

Are we calling people sexist just for disagreeing with the concept of genderswapping, now?

whatever lel

This is too precious.

I mean seriously don't take things so seriously.

Edited June 25, 2014 by The Iron Rose

[Siuloir]

i've never seen battlestar galactica so I can't really comment but even if there are a few ones that are good, it doesn't stop the rather poor reputation genderswapping has in general

My suggestion is to not consider fanfiction in your survey.

Also to watch Battlestar Galactica.

I think Arch has a reputation at this point for handling characterization pretty well, in general.

Are we calling people sexist just for disagreeing with the concept of genderswapping, now?

whatever lel

That is very clearly not what she said.

[NobodiePichu]

Are we calling people sexist just for disagreeing with the concept of genderswapping, now?

whatever lel

actually to an extent it kinda is as your implying that the gender one is born as is more important then the sex one identity's as.

[Tryhard]

This is too precious.

I mean seriously don't take things so seriously.

i'm pretty chill actually, sorry if it seemed otherwise.

Fine she's Richelle now and Roger's replacement is Korina.

While I would say that perhaps keep it away from the original name, you don't particularly need to change names based on my suggestion. We all know how name changes are perceived in the FE fandom right?

[CT075]

you should name every female character vergil

i'm not kidding

[Xinnidy]

I think Arch has a reputation at this point for handling characterization pretty well, in general.

This is quite true, and if they turn out interesting, then that's great. I just think he should take more liberties if he's going with these female characters. : )

[Arch]

Okay so here's the status of all the missing/cut characters:

Bord & Cord: Stayed in Talys to be woodcutters cuz fuck it they can chill on and island. Referenced in Barst's "I'm joining your party" dialogue with Marth.

Darros: Could cameo in Ch2. FE12 portrays him as a bit more...confused, so there's an interesting house/village convo in the making. But basically he's ducking for cover while you kill Gomer's crew so he can get a job on a fishing vessel (joining Marth's army isn't the only opportunity in Archanea, you know).

Sedgar: Died helping King Aurelis escape imminent execution.

Roshea: ...Can I really not just make him a girl?

Rickard: His sister stopped him from robbing Aurelis and so he's off toodling about. She told him to go back to their village but whatever.

Roger: If the unfinished Roger mug was completed, he could totally cameo. Left the army shortly before the attack on Port Warren after meeting the "love of his life" in a brothel. And yes he could've had a brief dead-end fling with Korina.

Dolph: Died in a failed siege on Castle Deil lead by Midia.

Macellan: Died in a failed siege on Castle Deil lead by Midia.

Tomas: Died in a failed siege on Castle Deil lead by Midia.

Boah: He's an NPC now.

Beck: Whatever he was doing in FE3. If someone makes a mug he can cameo lol.

Samson: Off with Sheema instead of wasting his life on a village feud with an Altean captain. Sheema might cameo so Samson could get a dialogue reference.

I think that's everybody?

Edited June 25, 2014 by Arch

[Robert Stewart]

Dolph: Died in a failed siege on Castle Deil lead by Midia.

Macellan: Died in a failed siege on Castle Deil lead by Midia.

Tomas: Died in a failed siege on Castle Deil lead by Midia.

Uh I may be remembering the ending of BSFE1 wrong but weren't all of those guys locked up with Midia?

Personally I think it would make more sense to have them have been executed, keeping Midia alive as a hostage to get Astram to work for Dolhr

[Chocolate Kitty]

He's killing them off because they lack any form of plot relevance or character developement.

But that's a good point.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Skitty of Time

[NobodiePichu]

Seriously couldn't we just make them gender bend, pretend this is an AU, and just leave it at that each of the characters are just that universes version of the male counterparts? is that really that hard to accept? can we have a vote?