Fire Emblem: Exalted Legacy

[Robert Stewart]

I kinda feel like I agree with Shugey on the whole genderswapping a large portion of the cast just to meet some gender balance quota. but I'll wait and see, maybe it'll turn out for the better after all...

Also, fun fact: Not counting games where children exist (and thus having a roughly equal ratio of male to female cast members is more important than usual), even without those last three genderswaps, Arch's game would have a higher percentage of female cast members than any other FE game. With the 3 latest swaps, that bumps it up even over FE4.

Awakening = 51.2%
Radiant Dawn = 33%
Path of Radiance = 30.4%
Sacred Stones = 36%
Blazing Sword = 30.9%
Binding Blade = 35.8%
Thracia = 33%
Geneaology = 38.8%

Isn't Athena like the only one of the new FE11 characters that had any fans?

Edit: Basically I am supporting bringing back Athena at the expense of cutting others, if need be.

If you read the rest of my post, you'll see I noticed that she isn't gone.

Gaggle Bow (2MT negates def) for Gordin.
Broadsword (armorslayer) for Ogma.
Wing Spear (reaver) for Caeda.
Excalibur for Merric/Wendell.
Aura for Linde.
Liuye Dao (6MT Brave +15crit) for Navarre.
Ranseur (dragonslayer) for Frey.
Something for Minerva.
Viking Axe for Dice.
Something sick for Maris.
Something for Etzel?

PRFs get 45 uses.


...I'm just taking notes. Feel free to share ideas. What I'd do with more weapon locks, basically.

Doesn't Minerva already sorta have the Hauteclare?

And I hardly think Navarre needs a PRF, let alone one that badass

Maris could probably get a magic sword of some sort?

What do you feel about some PRFs being infinite use?

Edited June 25, 2014 by shinpichu

[Klokinator]

I honestly see no point in changing a buncha characters to girls and adding more on top of that. I don't remember playing Shadow Dragon and being like "woah there's like way too many dudes here". Nobody wants a sausage fest, but making this many changes that literally don't affect gameplay at all seems pointless to me. I suppose I just have to see how it works out, though.

Actually, you're sort of wrong. Plenty of people like doing male only and female only runs, so having a half and half cast makes those runs more doable, instead of lolfe6 being like "you get one female in the first three chapters that can attack".

[RJWalker]

Meh, still seems like a silly reason to change genders. Adding new characters? Cool. Changing characters so radically? Might as well make your own hack with its own story and everything at this point.

Don't really see the point of social justive either since the females in FE11 were more meorable anyway.

Anyway, I'm staying out of this. Not interested in starting a SJW mess.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker

[Arch]

Hahahahahahah. I'm just trying to promote strong female characters in fantasy (of which, and especially in this series, there can be a glaring lack), and now I am shit. It's great.

I'm definitely more of a Social Justice Cleric anyways. Never really that blatant about it, but it's something I wanted to address in my designs for this hack.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Arch

[Klokinator]

Arch this is only 2014, you can't give women True Equality until at least, uh, let's say 2024. Yeah, 10 more years should be enough. You can't just arbitrarily change lifeless uninteresting male characters into sexy interesting female characters! Who do you think you are?!

[Arch]

Like honestly, this is what I've changed:

• 2 Wolfguard members (one of which was pretty much already a girl).
• 3 characters who were cut from FE3 book 1 (Roger, Darros, Beck).
• Instead of Rickard you get his sexy older sister.
• And added only females to the roster as original characters.

RADICAL SOCIAL JUSTICE AGENDA APPROACHING

But yes, gender balance is an issue in modern game design and it's one that I, as a game designer, am seeking to address.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Arch

[Fateborn]

I do love me some onee-chan thief.

[Tryhard]

Roger and Sheeda/Caeda recruitment was one of the only interesting character development conversations in FE1/11, tho. That's the only one I'll debate (and only because it had one single funny conversation), the others are frankly blank slates for the most part that no-one cares about in the Marth and Jeigan show.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Tryhard

[Shugey]

Hahahahahahah. I'm just trying to promote strong female characters in fantasy (of which, and especially in this series, there can be a glaring lack), and now I am shit. It's great.I'm definitely more of a Social Justice Cleric anyways. Never really that blatant about it, but it's something I wanted to address in my designs for this hack.

I don't see how changing genders in an FE remake hack promotes strong female characters. The majority of people that will play this already have played SD and other fire emblem games. FE is already known for good female characters, so it won't really affect most of the audience. I'm not saying that Sedgar is a very well written and memorable character, but how does changing him into a girl make things better? You can add to a character without making radical changes. Heck, you do a great job of that in EN.

[Arch]

So let's look at the original FE1 cast's 11 female characters:

Caeda: Princess on a flying pony

Minerva: Princess on a dragon

Palla: Knight on a flying pony

Catria: Knight on a flying pony

Est: Knight on a flying pony

Lena: Healer

Maria: Healer

Linde: Mage

Midia: Knight

Tiki: lolidragongirl

Elice: Princess and healer

In the original game, female characters were put in very specific niches (sans Minerva and Midia, the female cast is mostly dominated by gender normative roles). They were memorable because of their gender.

Shadow Dragon added to this with Norne and Athena, two more female warrior characters. Considering that this game was released in 1990, I feel that it's appropriate to recognize that further improvements could be made. I've taken a pretty methodological approach (outlined above), and it isn't simply whimsical. It's for a specific purpose of doubling the proportion of female characters in the cast, and that's something that I feel will only serve to ultimately enrich the story.

[Refa]

Don't really agree with all of your roster changes (and adding women for the sake of adding women doesn't really improve the story, but I'll save any judgement on that front until the game is actually released in some form), but how does that make you a social justice warrior in any way lol. The only thing I can decipher from that is "Arch sure likes women".

[Shugey]

So let's look at the original FE1 cast's 11 female characters:

Caeda: Princess on a flying pony

Minerva: Princess on a dragon

Palla: Knight on a flying pony

Catria: Knight on a flying pony

Est: Knight on a flying pony

Lena: Healer

Maria: Healer

Linde: Mage

Midia: Knight

Tiki: lolidragongirl

Elice: Princess and healer

In the original game, female characters were put in very specific niches (sans Minerva and Midia, the female cast is mostly dominated by gender normative roles). They were memorable because of their gender.

Shadow Dragon added to this with Norne and Athena, two more female warrior characters. Considering that this game was released in 1990, I feel that it's appropriate to recognize that further improvements could be made. I've taken a pretty methodological approach (outlined above), and it isn't simply whimsical. It's for a specific purpose of doubling the proportion of female characters in the cast, and that's something that I feel will only serve to ultimately enrich the story.

FE1 didn't have any memorable characters at all though. It was an NES game, not much to it. That is an issue not specific to females, but the entire cast. Bord and Cord were literally Axe dudes and Cain/Abel were generic knights. It goes both ways.

[Arch]

I think that richness and diversity in a cast will always improve the story. It isn't "adding women for the sake of adding women," it's adding women to address a very notable disparity in the cast.

And yes, I'm all about doin' it up right for the ladies.

[Tryhard]

FE1 didn't have any memorable characters at all though. It was an NES game, not much to it. That is an issue not specific to females, but the entire cast. Bord and Cord were literally Axe dudes and Cain/Abel were generic knights. It goes both ways.

I think he'll be addressing the male characters too, don't you worry.

[Arch]

Of course. It's not just like just some social justice "fuck the patriarchy" thing - FE1's cast was pretty bland, Shadow Dragon didn't do much to change that (no supports really?). With this remake, I'm trying to tackle that from every angle. And yes, big changes come with the territory when you're actually trying to modernize a 24-year-old game.

I'm more curious why people seem to care so much, honestly.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Arch

[CT075]

you should name every female character vergil

[mmKALLL]

Probably because OMG GENDER CHANGES and the fact that this is the Internets.

[Arch]

I'm leaning more towards the second one. These peeps need to take a gender studies class or something.

Trust me, my university is the "west point for social justice warriors." This is nothing.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Arch

[SB.]

I would argue that if you want to add more female characters in, just scrap a couple of the originals and add OCs, rather than just going "Darros is a girl now deal with it."

[Arch]

Consider them OCs inspired by the original characters then. Whatever floats your boat.

[Lord Glenn]

Uh, wasn't the entire principle of this to be a modernization and reinterpretation and NOT just "let's take Shadow Dragon and just make some changes"? 'Cause I'm pretty sure that was always the plan and that some "big" changes were already going to happen. Given how much of a blank slate was left by Intelligent Systems in all three previous versions of this tale, I don't understand everyone getting their proverbial panties in a twist over what amounts to a small drop in the bucket. I mean, it's not like Marth or Caeda or Hardin, characters that actually had some prior development to them, are now suddenly entirely new characters. (They might have different motivations and changes here and there, but they're still going to be their plot-important selves.)

Since this is basically a rehaul of what Intelligent Systems could have hypothetically done when remaking their first game instead of what we actually got (you know, actually giving it some substance and vastly expanding/improving on the original), I think everyone needs to chill and let Arch work his magic first. At least give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to actually see a more substantive amount of progress to see how his vision is changing and improving things before complaining about the prospective changes. And then, if you don't like them, stop reading the thread and let everyone else that wants to see how Arch trumps the actual developers do just that.

FWIW, I could care less about character genders. I'm interested in this for the promised highly political storyline improvements and actually making the characters that are there actually characters and not just faces with stats.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Lord Glenn

[Lord of Gabriel Knight]

Instead of Rickard you get his sexy older sister.

B-but, what if I wanted Rickard...

Important question. Does the Fire Emblem work like it does in FE11? Because once you got it, thieves were basically irrelevant, since Marth gets all the chests and all you have to do is carry keys.

[Siuloir]

I don't see how changing genders in an FE remake hack promotes strong female characters. The majority of people that will play this already have played SD and other fire emblem games. FE is already known for good female characters, so it won't really affect most of the audience. I'm not saying that Sedgar is a very well written and memorable character, but how does changing him into a girl make things better? You can add to a character without making radical changes. Heck, you do a great job of that in EN.

FE is known for 'good' female characters? Who, exactly? Elincia? Raquesis? The number of actually well-written FE females is relatively low, and one of the most iconic (Lyn) is a terribly flat, uninspiring character with zero development.

Also, there's pretty much zero development to any FE1 character. They're effectively a picture and two or two traits. Beck's gender is pretty irrelevant to 'person who fled a fight and hid in this village', which is all Beck is.

[Klokinator]

I think we can all agree that Manrika is a very memorable character.

Not Eirika though, she's just fuckin' boring.

[Arch]

When one of the most memorable character traits about somebody is just that they were female, you're kinda doing it wrong? And that's pretty much what we've got in the vanilla FE1 casting. The female characters are mostly only memorable by virtue of being female characters.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Arch