Tales of Symphonia Mafia Ver. 1.0

[charlie_]

50%+1

no quickhammer day 1

[Shinori]

It's as SB said.

[Elieson]

First off, I have been AFK because my mom flew in from NY and it's nice to spend time with family. She flies out in about 5 hours, so I'm dropping a post, finishing up work, then taking her to the airport. My shit activity will no longer be well...shit, when I get back from dropping her off.

On to business

Aw, Eli so mean! Don't be a sourpuss!

##Vote: Elieson

Holy Balls, such a late retort to my RVS like....dozens of posts ago. Stuff happened, and I don't get how you have no comments on anything (this is bringing back memories of Trainwrack)

I didn't realise that you valued my opinion so much, or that you wanted something to jump on. I'm looking at you too, JB. Initially I had an eye on BBM, after how he handed the first votes. SB, you've been asking a lot of questions, mostly with how people see your play. I smell a fish!

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

And seriously, what the butt is this? Everyone's opinions and statements are something that need to be brought up as valued, because it's quite difficult to proceed in a game when you are active lurking (unless you're Scummy McShinScum again). These reasons are utter crap too. You literally haven't actually said anything on BBM, and you slyly bump over to SB because he's trying to push discussion. You are currently doing exceptionally well at not doing anything while you're here.

But as for a case that has some meat on its bones; [bBM]

#15 and #17 surprise me at how much you are certain that Helios's self-vote is actually a joke, especially in #17. You're pressing Levi for having her reasons behind a vote, yet calling her vote meaningless because she isn't sharing her reasons with the class. People often vote for reasons and they anticipate an answer from that specific player before moving forward, and AFAIK that's a pretty common thing. You calling it out makes it look wierd because it's such a simple move. (Mixed Town/Scum reads)

#28 is pretty iffy, because while you're arguing the benefits of RVS and voting to purposes of applying pressure, you're saying that it's ok to back off. Helios was never even at 50%, that may be, but why should people just see a person with a wagon and vote for them?

I dunno it just feels like you're trying really hard to force reasoning behind your votes and suspicions. You "knew" Helios was self-voting as a joke and brushed it off pretty openly/confidently, you worked as if Prims/Levi are in-town bickering, and your defense in #63 to Prims' #52 (which calls reference back to #24-ish) is relatively equal to his offense on you, as if you're just looking for reasons to find Prims scummy, rather than looking for scum in general. Throw that in with your muddled reads on/off Bizz (because when you found her scummy then later said you didn't, because of Helios Selfvoting among the very first posts of the game, and Levi's vote-park on someone who needed to react)...it just seems too fabricated to me.

##Unvote (Shin)

##Vote Thomas Raith

[BBM]

@Prims- that post you quoted of yours is hardly indication that you found me scummy before your vote on me. That level of accusation is no more than your point against Marth where you said his vote against me was as weak as mine against Bizz or your point against Helios handwaving the interactions between you and Bizz.

@Elieson- If you find someone suspicious, why SHOULDN'T you vote for them just because they have a wagon? And a wagon that barely has any meaning to it, to boot. Also I never said that Prims and Bizz were town in-fighting. In fact, since I've voted for both of them, how can you gather from that that I think they're both town?

That Marth wagon looks really scummy and sheepy, and I'm looking particularly at Mancer and CR. I think CR especially looks bad because she said that Mancer convinced her even though Mancer basically just parroted the same reasoning that the first four people on the wagon did.

Also, I see Obviam reading the thread. Say something plz.

[Aleph]

Eli, I think there's a tag for linking directly to posts with those post numbers. Might want to try it.

Someone said RVS is over but getting in here this late and reading everything at once (lol 12 drive home) it honestly looks more like it's still going. You silly childrens need to grow up.

I disdain the martywagon and my original instinct was to ##Vote: Bizz for being ridiculous. I believe I'll go with it because a good 3 of you appear to be playing weak and Bizz is the extreme case.

Admittedly this isn't factoring in lurkers as much as it probably should; likely the scum are hiding around the middle or bottom of the votal and activity lists.

[Aleph]

thomas be patient I just woke up like 10 minutes ago

[Percivalé]

Obviam you think I'm 'playing weak' every game and your post was generalizing (a good 3 of us appear to be playing weak--care to specify which ones? WHY are we playing weak?) so I'm not going to treat you seriously either, sorry.

I just woke up too so let me see.

[Ciarre]

That Marth wagon looks really scummy and sheepy, and I'm looking particularly at Mancer and CR. I think CR especially looks bad because she said that Mancer convinced her even though Mancer basically just parroted the same reasoning that the first four people on the wagon did.

It wasn't exactly the same, or at least from what I could understand. Other people voted him for being "unhelpful and not getting reads". He says that it's too early to get reads, and then he votes people for for not giving good reasoning for their votes. That's just what stuck out to me.

BBM I get the feeling you're trying to be overly helpful. Not fabricated like Eli said, but just trying to contribute too much. SB and Levity, overall, don't strike me as strange.

geezus how do i game

##Unvote: Marth

##Vote: Shin

I can't follow your train of thought on that last post. That was really jumbled.

[j00]

This has been pretty silly, RVS got half-serious immediately and so did the votes. BBM voted Levity for a bad reason and then Marth voted BBM for voting with a bad reason which also was a bad reason. Said reason was "I don't like how you took that seriously and changed your vote" and then everyone jumped on BBM before they switched to jumping on Marth. And right now it's back to BBM it appears.

The Marth wagon is pretty bad I think, especially the last people on it didn't have any good reasoning. SB's first post makes it sound like BBM is just as scummy as Marth, and even though he's accusing Marth of not contributing he's not contributing much either. Aside from a first post with reads (Which Marth had too) he's only been asking others for reads and explanations for votes.

Not exactly convinced by Mancer either, he also accused Marth for coasting and "not contributing" and CR just kinda agreed with Mancer. While I can understand the coasting argument, I don't think saying "you're not contributing" is a very good argument early out in D1 when there's a lot of people who haven't even posted yet.

However, I do get the reasons for the wagon. Marth has been defending himself badly and saying "I can't get any more reads atm" while votes are piling up on him is just lame.

That said, BBM, Prims and Levity have all had stupid votes during a phase I'm not sure is RVS or not. Levity admits her vote on Prims was stupid, but I think she was taking Helios' self-vote too seriously. Not so serious that I'd vote her, like BBM immediately did, though. Prims did a RVS OMGUS on Levity and a half-serious OMGUS on BBM and have generally been messing around.

Obviam's vote on Levity for "being ridiculous" also seems like a joke. Shin's being rather vague, casting suspicions on JB and BBM without saying why, but I don't disagree with him on SB.

##Vote: SB

[Shin]

And seriously, what the butt is this? Everyone's opinions and statements are something that need to be brought up as valued, because it's quite difficult to proceed in a game when you are active lurking (unless you're Scummy McShinScum again). These reasons are utter crap too. You literally haven't actually said anything on BBM, and you slyly bump over to SB because he's trying to push discussion. You are currently doing exceptionally well at not doing anything while you're here.

So mean, the RVS period ended when it was 1am for me :P. What I'm more interested in is not SB provoking discussion, but SB provoking discussion on how people perceive him. As if he's gathering the general opinion on where he stands and whether he's at risk or not. Also, CR so mean, you can ask Horace for help with your homework!

[Percivalé]

Except it was an OMGUS because it was how he defended himself against my case against him. Instead of refuting my point, he just said "well you're doing the same thing" which isn't really a proper defence at all. Plus I don't think I did the same thing as him at all, so not only is it a bad defence, I think it's also a wrong one.

Prims has been acting weird as fuck, regarding the votes he's now claiming were 'reaction tests' in the first place, but I still don't really think what he had on you was OMGUS--he had suspicious beforehand, and what you described only served to further build those suspicions; this post only addresses the latter half of it. And it sounds desperate to me at its slightly confusing wording.

Agree pretty much in entirety with BBM's reasoning for his early vote on Bizz, no idea what Prims is trying to do, null read on Helios, slightly wary of Bizz because of the logic for her Prims vote + her reaction to Helios.

I'm actually pretty happy with the logic behind my Prims vote and still think people are giving him too much credit. I'm not sure if he and BBM are both scum, but I feel that the nature of their argument has so far been clumsy (especially on BBM's side of it for reasons I've stated above and before here), so I wouldn't dismiss the possibility.

SB explain how having 2 null reads= scummy? AFAIK its perfectly normal not to have proper reads at the beginning of the game.

Pardon me, Marth, but do you have any scumreads yet? I think we have a fair amount of material now for you to draw at least something out of. Don't really like this question, it sounds too defensive and he's waving it off with this "it's early in the game" excuse for his lack of reads, plus combined with this:

You wound me, SB. Such poor reasons, I've never seen.

Guys, if this isn't seen as an attempt to contribute, I dunno what is.

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

Except, uh, that was one post. You mean you're happy with throwing contribution in like one or two posts and calling it a day, or what?

I've had enough of people giving me the 'you're not contributing!' remark. I had enough of it in Xenoblade, we don't need more piss-poor reasoning.

Although I agree with you on this, I think there's been enough "Levity is only working off of meta wrt Prims," because this isn't true; and "Bizz is just acting ridiculous," because no, I actually have legitimate suspicions that I would like people to consider. Of course you don't have to agree with them! But if I would kindly ask people to stop meta'ing me and handwaving away my reads as 'earlygame gut feelings' because that's just not the case this time. Meta'ing people like that discourages player growth and stunts people from trying new things.

I also feel people are making too big of a deal about my reaction to Helios.

I don't either, but I do think that it's an important point I need you to address. Why did you vote hop over from Prims to BBM? I don't see any reasons why you did this, and I feel that you find Prims scummy, so the vote hop seems weird to me.

If I have to, I will kindly lead you back to all of my posts that suggest/imply/directly state that I had suspicions on BOTH Prims and BBM for a while and it was just a matter of which one I found scummier. It wasn't a 'vote hop' and yeah I hate telling people this but I don't think you read my posts thoroughly.

Bluedoom, there was no reads behind it, no reasons behind it. It was not a "poor reason" because you have literally made a few posts that have not contributed to reactions/interactions or scum hunting.

"I've had enough of....." definitely makes you look scummier because you're trying to appear town by victimizing yourself, which I usually associate with scum.

Actually I didn't consider that the last part may have been Marth trying to victimize himself, but his "look I made this one contribution post!!! Read it!!!" actually kinda ties in rather well with that.

[CT075]

Not Playing

"WHAT IS GOING ON I AM CONFUSED AND I AM IN BRITAIN"

Not Playing

[j00]

So mean, the RVS period ended when it was 1am for me :P. What I'm more interested in is not SB provoking discussion, but SB provoking discussion on how people perceive him. As if he's gathering the general opinion on where he stands and whether he's at risk or not. Also, CR so mean, you can ask Horace for help with your homework!

Don't have any problems with that, but mind sharing your thoughts on BBM and JB since you found them suspicious?

Just realised I somehow missed that JB's on the Marth wagon too, his reason seem to be that he agrees with BBM on the early Levity vote and Marth only defending himself and not contributing after that. Nothing new here, just echoing the previous thoughts. Somewhat sheepish post.

[Percivalé]

That said, BBM, Prims and Levity have all had stupid votes during a phase I'm not sure is RVS or not. Levity admits her vote on Prims was stupid,

Hey hey excuse me but you've got that wrong hehe. I never said that.

Actually if you want me to be perfectly honest, it reminded me of what you did in NPoT so it was 100% meta because that was all I really had to go off of at the time! Not revealing my reason was kind of dumb but at least a reaction came out of it. I don't agree with how you interpreted it though; even if you only posted a vote, the way a vote is placed can say a lot. But I don't think there's much of a need to argue this anymore and it's not even why I'm voting you now anyway haha.

Check your sources! I stated that my first reason for it was dumb, not my whole vote. I wish people would look into why I KEPT my vote on Prims rather than why I INITIALLY voted Prims, since that seems to be a problem here. Just because some reasons were bad doesn't make the whole vote bad, so consider this at least.

[j00]

if you Really Need To Know (it's lame)

Okay, Levity admits her reasons for voting Prims were lame!

I did mean the meta reasons. I don't think you're even voting Prims anymore, but I understand that the vote stayed because he kept acting weird. I agree on that, but I don't know enough meta to be sure what to make of it and I found others more sheepish and scummy anyways.

[Percivalé]

I agree on that, but I don't know enough meta to be sure what to make of it and I found others more sheepish and scummy anyways.

except the later reasons weren't that based on meta god dmantimda

[Percivalé]

brb I'm going to go see Les Mis with my family

Obviam, what are your actual opinions on like, other things? I'm feeling a lot like your vote on me plus the 'acting ridiculous' remark were meant to emotionally frazzle me and I think that's scummy.

[j00]

No, I meant I don't know what Prims acting weird means for his meta. He was acting weird and really messing around but just messing around isn't unusual for Prims, but it usually seems to serve a purpose. I don't see much purpose this time, except for in the beginning were he just wanted reactions in RVS

except the later reasons weren't that based on meta god dmantimda

I don't think you're even voting Prims anymore, but I understand that the vote stayed because he kept acting weird.

[Percivalé]

But what I'm saying is you don't need to know his meta to know that he's been acting at least slightly scummy. People who don't know my meta have been wary of me too, it's not like I haven't been acting strange to some people unfamiliar with the way I play AND even to those who are familiar with my play and I respect that.

[Shin]

Don't have any problems with that, but mind sharing your thoughts on BBM and JB since you found them suspicious?

Just realised I somehow missed that JB's on the Marth wagon too, his reason seem to be that he agrees with BBM on the early Levity vote and Marth only defending himself and not contributing after that. Nothing new here, just echoing the previous thoughts. Somewhat sheepish post.

Sure, BBM was very keen to get people to vote for Prims instead of scorri, and that came right after his "prodding" stage. To make such a case against what is apparently a random vote caught my eye. JB's also only made one meaningful post, the others have just been "lol I'm here" posts. JB supports BBM's first vote, but makes no mention at all to his Prims vote despite being weary of Bizz and hers. Just a thought.

I guess I'm TOO BRITISH for Cam.

[Prims]

@Mancer: So what's up with your Levity vote? You cited a bunch of buzzwords when attacking her without explaining, then backed down to jump on a wagon after dropping the issue completely without any further explanation. Can't tell what your thought process is here, or what in specific was scummy about Levity's posts to you in the first place. Reads scummy imo.

Seregil is similarly scummy, not fond of her responding to getting called out on on her Marth vote by switching off. It looks like she's more concerned with not being found sheepy than voting the scums. Seregil, how does Shin being incomprehensible make him scummier than Marth?

@Obviam: Your Levity vote has the same issue as Mancer's. Explain what bugs you about her. Also, thoughts on BBM case?

@BBM: I thought you were scummy when I wrote that post. I think Helios is kinda scummy. I did not have a read on Marth and wanted him to elaborate. I probably did a bad job of being transparent on each of those, but that's what my thoughts are. The implication behind your vote being the "better" vote instead of the vote for the scummier player is that you were voteparking.

@Shin: I can't tell why you find SB asking you for your opinions scummy.

I don't agree with the SB votes. Not really convinced scum would go and handwave Levity as overreactive right after I mentioned finding Helios scummy for doing the same thing, and he was actually right that Marf's content was pretty slim at that point. As far as the Bluedoom wagon goes, I don't see what makes him scummier than Mancer or Seregil.

There's nothing from Marf that actually makes me want to not lynch him (thoughts on his defense are basically the same as Levity's and j00's) but I don't find him as scummy as BBM + some of the players on his wagon.

##Unvote

##Vote: Seregil

Not actually satisfied with BBM (him going on about the Marth wagon but still voting me seems like sidelining) but I find his take on the Marf voters agreeable. Seregil jumping around in response to a callout reads newbscum; at least Mancer seemed to be jumpy due to his own thought process instead of somebody attacking his vote.

[BBM]

I didn't vote anybody on the Marth wagon because you hadn't actually done anything to revise my opinion of you at that point, so I didn't see a reason in changing my vote when my opinion was the same. That last post is more what I expect from you, so ##Unvote for now while I reread the thread.

[Ciarre]

Seregil jumping around in response to a callout reads newbscum; at least Mancer seemed to be jumpy due to his own thought process instead of somebody attacking his vote.

Jumping around? All I did was vote Marth and then unvote.

It was because Shin was giving me SK vibes with all that. It's like he's trying to fade into the background by still joking towards Elie when we're out of RVS, and then contributing his opinion to keep suspicion off him. Though I think that last response of his was taken too seriously, about the fish. That's just how Shin talks.

[Ciarre]

Wait, nevermind about the RVS. I should read better. But he was still acting jokingly, regardless.

[Percivalé]

BACK FROM LES MIS

Seregil, why are you hunting for 'hypothetical SK' and not mafia?