Has Fire Emblem ascended to...Godhood?

[Kyneme]

I can't say I'm for Nowi's design but it's just a character. It's perfectly fine to have opinions but really guys? It's the same argument being constantly hashed over. You want to dislike a game series just because of one character in it? Fine, either don't use her or don't play it. You don't like the idea of women wearing scantily clad clothing or high heels in battle? Fine, don't use them or simply don't play it.

I'm not sure what the accomplishment is here to constantly point out and nitpick at an artist's decisions. If you feel YOU can do a better job, then by all means prove it.

On a side note: It's a video game. Part of a long series. Again it's a video game. A fantasy setting. A fictional setting. Unless I'm mistaken, since when has anyone that's played a RPG wanted to play it for it's "realism?" I haven't.

[IkeandMia]

The only designs that I consider to be a bit out there in this regard are Nowi, Tharja, Olivia, Panne, and maybe Cherche. The rest are pretty standard FE fare.

Edited February 6, 2013 by IkeandMia

[Faye]

Wow it got just a tiny bit heated in here, didn't it? D: I hate the stupid fanservicy females, too, like, only a very small handful are fully dressed. But I don't have to use those characters. An RPG is first and foremost a story. I may hate the art direction, but the story will make it VERY much worth it. Not buying a game because of a small amount of characters (or one in the case of Nowi), is just plain silly.

[Bryan]

Wow it got just a tiny bit heated in here, didn't it? D: I hate the stupid fanservicy females, too, like, only a very small handful are fully dressed. But I don't have to use those characters. An RPG is first and foremost a story. I may hate the art direction, but the story will make it VERY much worth it. Not buying a game because of a small amount of characters (or one in the case of Nowi), is just plain silly.

Actually, only a small handful aren't dressed. The children characters almost all are, it's really just tharja, panne, aversa, sort of olivia(she's a dancer, that's what they wear. I liked ninan's design the most.) and of course, nowi. Cherche has an open back. OMG, that's so sleazy. (You can't even see it in her portrait...)

[Samias]

Sully doesn't have pants but you can't see that in-game. Say'ri isn't any more scantily clad than Lyn so I don't really have a problem with her. Pretty much all the odd parts of anyone's outfit is impossible to see in game. Nowi is the exception. Even Olivia looks great.

[BrightBow]

The only designs that I consider to be a bit out there in this regard are Nowi, Tharja, Olivia, Panne, and maybe Cherche. The rest are pretty standard FE fare.

And those are already five of the eleven mothers. And I would contest most of the remaining Women as well. It's not just about the clothes but also about posture and perspective. Therefore I would like to list a few things in regards to the ones you didn't list.

-Tiki shoves her butt towards the screen and bends her body so we can see her breast. And since she apparently really wants us to have a clear view, she goes out of her way by crossing her arms on her back while also keeping them out of sight of her butt. Her artwork doesn't seem to be intended to express anything else. At least I can't read anything from her facial expression.

-Sumia wears breastplates and the camera is positioned at a lower angle so we can see up her skirt. She also bends her body really awkwardly. As far as I can see, her lower body looks like she is standing perfectly still in a diagonal position while her lower body looks like she is walking right towards the camera. To me, it's kinda painful to look at.

-Cordelia's is pretty much the same: breast plate and the camera is positioned low. The body is also all kinds of messed up but I would say that it's a fair shot to say that the swinging of her hips is supposed to be titillating. In contrast to Sumia, I will grant her that she at least she has an actual expression on her face and a proper grip on her weapon. At least as far as her hands go.

-Sully's armor is different from Stahl's by wearing her arm armor like long gloves and her leg armor like long socks for no reason other then the obvious one. The latter results in something that I think is referred to as "Absolute Territory".

I assume that Aversa is self-explanatory, though at least she is properly the only one who expresses her character properly that way.

Edited February 6, 2013 by BrightBow

[Duff Ostrich]

I said the console's main gimmick isn't something I want to tempt fate with. As a result, I will likely never play 13. I'll grant you Lunatic will require strategy, but that isn't what I'm talking about; I mean that there's too much in the way of gimmicky skills and optimisation and that sort of thing, and that just isn't why you pick up a game like FE; where the entire pull is that it's very streamlined.

Creating strong teams in the previous games was a matter of 'get together a bunch of strong lads, and a couple healers. Pick your favourites'. I'm concerned strong teams in this one involves 'everyone is a sorceror from levels eight through fifteen, then reclass five times until you unlock every skill.'

I'd appreciate if you didn't lie about what I did and did not say. I said I was concerned the strategy element was outweighed by the numerical element. I never claimed full knowledge, nor did I ever claim strategy was thrown out the window entirely.

Skills are a relatively small influence in FE4/5/9/10. In 13, it seems to me a rather large part involves juggling them.

I'm one of the people who cannot see the 3D effect properly for reasons I don't understand (because my eyesight is fine). As such, I've decided to play with the 3D off, and I don't feel like I've missed anything in any 3DS game I own.

Your other concerns are mostly unfounded. I don't know how one measures the prominence of "numbers" versus "strategy" but you can rest assured that success in Awakening is not dependent on Pair Up, supports, or skills. If anything, most of the skills are not as powerful as their equivalents in other games. This is certainly the case for wrath, and the lack of "pursuit" and "canto" is on its own proof that FE4 (and FE5/9/10 in the case of canto) were more dependent on skills for success.

It never took much strategy to Seth your way through Sacred Stones, or Paladin your way through Path of Radiance, or warp Grafcalibur into the face of some defenseless Baron, or soak up the mountains of free exp from Geneology. There are always ways to optimize your team and trivialize the experience, and Awakening is similar to every other game in the series in that it is entirely possible to do but in no way necessary.

[Just call me AL]

@BrightBow: Maybe you can at least try the game out first and see if you like it or not before going on hate tangents? Seriously. What you're doing right now is something I would expect from guys like General Shock.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Little Al

[Samias]

Karla in a pose where her shoulder doesn't make any sense, and also showing some leg for good measure.

Leila wearing a super short skirt and wearing ripped up garters.

Limstella is doing a boob and butt pose though granted she doesn't really have boobs.

Vaida is more scantily clad than any pegasus knight in this game.

Clarine's pose is badly balanced AND her skirt is obscenely short! The artist has cleverly omitted hands, to boot.

Thany doesn't seem to be able to walk properly either.

Even Marcia is inflicted with the mysterious affliction that makes pegasus knights unable to stand around like a normal person! And FE9/10 had the best art of all!

Same with Nephenee.

Marth what are you doing

So you were saying that the poses in Awakening were bad? Have you ever heard of confirmation bias before?

Edited February 6, 2013 by Samias

[Duff Ostrich]

Samias started a pretty good list, but I wish to add a few of my own:

Brunya: Ultra cheesecake.

Marissa: Male gaze, anyone?

Ismaire: It is completely appropriate for a head of state to wear a dress with a plunging neckline.

Linda: She's supposed to be like 15.

Heather: Even lesbians pose for the boys. How thoughtful of them!

Vika: It's so hard being a supermodel.

???: Pure sex. You know its true.

[sumerian99]

I mean common guys, are we truly going to nitpick at every single freakin' pose female characters have?! And about what they are wearing even if its far from being excessive in most of the cases? Do you want to live under radical islam where women cant show ANY OR ALMOST NO SKIN in public?!

No thanks I prefer Western Civilization, even with all its flaws. : P

Edited February 6, 2013 by sumerian99

[Rehab]

The game's a nice experiment in a lot of ways, Nintendo kinda sorta ended up looking to me like they might be actually trying a little to promote it (minute-long commercial on Adult Swim? that's just cheating guys) which I'll take where I can get it, and it seems to have been about as well-received as I could've hoped, so I'll admit I'm willing to forgive, if not forget some things about it that I don't like and probably buy it when I can. I also have to admit that looking back, even some of the relatively modest characters like Marcia and Amelia had less-than-equal, if not obnoxious armoring than the male characters were apt to have, though I think Jill hit the jackpot as far as like any female medieval fantasy characters ever go.

The things more than one of you guys have mentioned do make me worry a bit, however, about how the next games are going to go down, far as the variable-crunching and designs go at least. I'll be interested to see what they decide to reuse, and what they decide to work on some more.

You get one free winking stool-height "child" thing wearing not much more than a cape for a top who can be made to have children long before emotional maturity, IS, but I do mean one

Do you want to live in radical islam where women cant show ANY SKIN in public?!

No thanks, I prefer Western Civilization.

I laughed for all the wrong, wrong, wrong reasons

I'll just go end the clear and present threat I pose to humanity, tell the President I want the medal engraved into my tombstone, none of this lay-it-in-the-casket business

Edited February 6, 2013 by Rehab

[sumerian99]

I laughed for all the wrong, wrong, wrong reasons

I'll just go end the clear and present threat I pose to humanity, tell the President I want the medal engraved into my tombstone, none of this lay-it-in-the-casket business

I of course meant under a radical islamic regime, not that Im saying radical islam is a country : P

Oh and if you are laughing because Japan is an East-Asian country, many of its cultural aspects and quite a few aspects of its way of life largely compare to our way of life in Europe or North America. After all, their economic growth since WW2 has been monitored and supported by the United-States. So Japan can be considered as quite heavily influenced by Western culture.

Edited February 6, 2013 by sumerian99

[Duff Ostrich]

I laughed for all the wrong, wrong, wrong reasons

I'll just go end the clear and present threat I pose to humanity, tell the President I want the medal engraved into my tombstone, none of this lay-it-in-the-casket business

Not to get too off topic, but which part was laughable? The stated preference for western civilization or the disapproval of Sharia?

[Ike-Mike]

Hahaha, Fire Emblem is still far away from becoming the next CoD.

However, it has firmly established itself as a B-tier Nintendo series now.

[Rehab]

Here are the thoughts that, when thought at the same time, produced laughter of which I'm not proud:

-"This whole comparison seems a bit dramatic, I mean I don't think saying 'I think the armor and designs should make more sense and be less sexualized' is equivalent to saying they should do anything like go to the extreme in the opposite direction, or even that anybody's character designs should be forced to abide by any particular concept of modesty"

and

-"Haha did he just bring up- what? I MEAN YEAH MAN FUCK SHARIA, GOTTA DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO OBJECTIFIED FEMALE CHARACTERS FROM THE ISLAMO-(ANTI?)FEMINIST THREAT, CHALK ANOTHER ONE UP FOR WESTERN ENLIGHTENMENT AND BOOBS+BUTT SHOTS (even though this game was made in Japan shhh)"

But even as much as I think there's room to complain about the practicality of some of the designs, I have to admit I'm grateful for the small mercy that they're not worse at the time Fire Emblem is getting a little time in the sort-of spotlight, because they could be so much worse

Edited February 6, 2013 by Rehab

[sumerian99]

Hahaha, Fire Emblem is still far away from becoming the next CoD.

However, it has firmly established itself as a B-tier Nintendo series now.

It certainly doesnt need to become the next CoD. CoD's standards of quality are pathetic compared to what's needed for a Fire Emblem game to be good. You cant make Fire Emblem games in one year, especially considering the depth of the game and the character design.

Besides, comparing an FPS to a Tactical-RPG is like...ultra irrelevant I believe.

[Anacybele]

It certainly doesnt need to become the next CoD. CoD's standards of quality are pathetic compared to what's needed for a Fire Emblem game to be good. You cant make Fire Emblem games in one year, especially considering the depth of the game and the character design.

Besides, comparing an FPS to a Tactical-RPG is like...ultra irrelevant I believe.

I agree with this. You can't compare a treasure like Fire Emblem to a COMPLETELY different, and probably trashy series like CoD.

[sumerian99]

Here are the thoughts that, when thought at the same time, produced laughter of which I'm not proud:

-"This whole comparison seems a bit dramatic, I mean I don't think saying 'I think the armor and designs should make more sense and be less sexualized' is equivalent to saying they should do anything like go to the extreme in the opposite direction, or even that anybody's character designs should be forced to abide by any particular concept of modesty"

and

-"Haha did he just bring up- what? I MEAN YEAH MAN FUCK SHARIA, GOTTA DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO OBJECTIFIED FEMALE CHARACTERS FROM THE ISLAMO-(ANTI?)FEMINIST THREAT, CHALK ANOTHER ONE UP FOR WESTERN ENLIGHTENMENT AND BOOBS+BUTT SHOTS (even though this game was made in Japan shhh)"

But even as much as I think there's room to complain about the practicality of some of the designs, I have to admit I'm grateful for the small mercy that they're not worse at the time Fire Emblem is getting a little time in the sort-of spotlight, because they could be so much worse

Wow, wow, wow, Im simply bringing up that the nitpicking on female skin seems to be quite obsessive on this thread. Perhaps you didn't like my seemingly excessive and exagerated comparison to Sharia. Yet my intention is simply to say perhaps we should cut some slack to the Devs for most of the female characters they have designed. Besides Fire Emblem isnt supposed to be ultra-realistic. It never was considered the fantasy aspects it has (magic, mystical creatures, powerful enchantments, etc...). Fire Emblem is indeed inspired of the medieval world, hence the necessity for armor. However, to criticize any non-realistic or non-practical armor presented in the game almost equals to demanding Fire Emblem to be an ultra realistic depiction of medieval combat, which it's not.

Edited February 6, 2013 by sumerian99

[Parrhesia]

I agree with this. You can't compare a treasure like Fire Emblem to a COMPLETELY different, and probably trashy series like CoD.

'And probably trashy'? Please, can we leave out the inaccurate snap judgements? I can't speak for installments after the fifth, but CoD 1/2/4/mostly 5 were damn classy.

Also, thank you to the people who actually addressed my post instead of treating it like an insult to one's family.

[Ike-Mike]

Personal opinions aside, CoD is the series so massively successful that everybody and their grandma has played it, not Fire Emblem.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Ike-Mike

[Rehab]

I think Mike was referring to Modern Warfare, as well

Wow, wow, wow, Im simply bringing up that the nitpicking on female skin seems to be quite obsessive on this thread. Perhaps you didn't like my seemingly excessive and exagerated comparison to Sharia. Yet my intention is simply to say perhaps we should cut some slack to the Devs for most of the female characters they have designed. Besides Fire Emblem isnt supposed to be ultra-realistic. It never was considered the fantasy aspects it has (magic, mystical creatures, powerful enchantments, etc...). Fire Emblem is indeed inspired of the medieval world, hence the necessity for armor. However, to criticize any non-realistic or non-practical armor presented in the game almost equals to demanding Fire Emblem to be an ultra realistic depiction of medieval combat, which it's not.

Criticizing it doesn't mean I hate everything about it, or that I think it can't be a little fantastic, and questioning the creators a bit doesn't mean I hate them, man. I do actually respect a lot that it's a very different thing (and maybe a lot easier) to try to analyze something than to try to create it, just for the record. While I think some aspects of attempts at realism wouldn't be bad for FE, I'm also not going to demand them. I'm actually pretty excited for the game we're going to get overall, and I realize it's part of a series with costume designs that aren't universally as appealing to fight in as they are to look at.

But there are parts of the game that I don't think are going in a strictly positive direction, even though I do think some of them have some kind of appeal. I think some of the designs are aesthetically pleasing, but often are at the same time difficult to prefer, not just because they're hard to imagine wearing to an actual fight, but because the standards aren't the same for the male and female characters. It also seems like there's a chance that this balance of at least appearing more practical and showing more to please is becoming more skewed and more extravagant, and I have to wonder if that's a direction the series will continue to take. Of course I'll have to wait for the next game before I can say my thoughts on the changes have any merit, but so will everybody else.

I do remember how Tethys was called a whore in a pejorative way (wow that reads as kinda redundant looking back at it), though, and I can't decide whether to blame that one on the people who said it, the design, or both, so I can recognize that fan reaction and criticism are as capable of overstepping bounds as creators are. if not way, way more

Edited February 7, 2013 by Rehab

[Anacybele]

'And probably trashy'? Please, can we leave out the inaccurate snap judgements? I can't speak for installments after the fifth, but CoD 1/2/4/mostly 5 were damn classy.

Also, thank you to the people who actually addressed my post instead of treating it like an insult to one's family.

Uh, where did I treat any post of yours like an insult to someone's family?

Also, I've heard nothing but bad things about CoD. That it gets boring fast, it lacks a story, it's repetitive, and every game is exactly the same. And other things too, but I can't think of all of them off the top of my head.

[Lord Raven]

Really cause most people i know irl really enjoy CoD

[Integrity]

Also, I've heard nothing but bad things about CoD. That it gets boring fast, it lacks a story, it's repetitive, and every game is exactly the same. And other things too, but I can't think of all of them off the top of my head.

I really hate to cite sales because I think Mike's defense of them is pretty horrible, but dude. How many millions, again?

Shit, even I played the hell out of CoD4. That game was objectively good, no questions asked.