FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List

[Redwall]

Gregor gets Sol and has a less rocky start than Nowi; both become really good units in the end, but Nowi needs more babying.

[Interceptor]

Anyway, back on topic, how is Gregor in B-tier while Nowi is in D? They join in the same chapter. Is Barbarian Russian really that good over lolManaketes?

Nowi is probably under-rated at the moment, she's too durable for Hard mode, and her SPD is a fixable flaw; this has been brought up before, but we're just chasing our tails around a static tier list for now.

[Khan of Blades]

Gregor gets Sol and has a less rocky start than Nowi; both become really good units in the end, but Nowi needs more babying.

Fair enough, but is Nowi's start so bad she's under Olivia? I believe it was Interceptor that said that all Dragonloli needed was a speed fix to start orbital nuking enemies, which isn't too difficult given a Pair Up Partner.

[Legault!]

Nowi moving up seems like a no-brainer. If she's not only usable on Lunatic but a potentially excellent character, her poor speed can certainly be dealt with against lolHard enemies, and it's not as though speed potions aren't cheap.

But OP needs to relinquish his tiering duties before we can make any progress.

[PK Gaming]

That's not necessary.

SDS's been fairly busy with real life and what not, he plans on updating the OP soon.

[eclipse]

Misusage of Paperquotes

The purpose of that topic was to figure out why MU was gaining +2 HP with HP asset (which in turn prompted a mass-check on everyone else). To use that as an excuse to nitpick differences in a 30ish% Magic growth, especially on this mode, is absolutely silly.

I'll wait for SDS to change the tier list. I don't think discussing old stuff will be productive.

[Khan of Blades]

The purpose of that topic was to figure out why MU was gaining +2 HP with HP asset (which in turn prompted a mass-check on everyone else). [...]

Could have fooled me.

[...] To use that as an excuse to nitpick differences in a 30ish% Magic growth, especially on this mode, is absolutely silly. [...]

For what purpose do most people visit this website other than [keyword] reliable information? But Fine. Dark Fliers are still subjectively, and supported by a vocal minority (they sound educated though, or is that a classic argument from authority fallacy), leaning on the bad side though.

[...]

I'll wait for SDS to change the tier list. I don't think discussing old stuff will be productive.

Okay, new stuff then. Vaike should be lower, and Miriel can be debated to go down the same as well. If my assumptions are correct, the reason why both are so high up there is their usefulness early on, namely against knights, or their ability to use 1-2 Ranged weapons early on. But Stahl and Sully both have Discipline, which means an earlier access to slightly more accurate javelins (They probably also have more Spd, anyway). Against knights, Hammer is D-rank, Frederick can use it better. Miriel provides the marginal chip vs. Knights, but Frederick has Hammer, and can use it better.

Perhaps terrain, but you don't see much knights in desert chapters.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Khan of Blades

[Shadow Mir]

Okay, new stuff then. Vaike should be lower, and Miriel can be debated to go down the same as well. If my assumptions are correct, the reason why both are so high up there is their usefulness early on, namely against knights, or their ability to use 1-2 Ranged weapons early on. But Stahl and Sully both have Discipline, which means an earlier access to slightly more accurate javelins (They probably also have more Spd, anyway). Against knights, Hammer is D-rank, Frederick can use it better. Miriel provides the marginal chip vs. Knights, but Frederick has Hammer, and can use it better.

Perhaps terrain, but you don't see much knights in desert chapters.

Well, I'm unsure what you're trying to do since Vaike and Miriel are already below everyone you're trying to compare them to.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Florete]

Okay, new stuff then. Vaike should be lower, and Miriel can be debated to go down the same as well. If my assumptions are correct, the reason why both are so high up there is their usefulness early on, namely against knights, or their ability to use 1-2 Ranged weapons early on. But Stahl and Sully both have Discipline, which means an earlier access to slightly more accurate javelins (They probably also have more Spd, anyway). Against knights, Hammer is D-rank, Frederick can use it better. Miriel provides the marginal chip vs. Knights, but Frederick has Hammer, and can use it better.

Perhaps terrain, but you don't see much knights in desert chapters.

The problem here is that you make no indication whatsoever of where they should go or who's better. Everyone you compared them to is already higher than them.

[KitheOfEvrark]

Both Vaike and Miriel can be good units long term in Hard mode. Reclassing to Barbarian helps fix Vaike's speed which is his only significant problem. Later on, his massive strength means that he'll be able to ORKO everything he doubles. Compared to Cherche, he will have better offense, more availability and less weaknesses, but a worse class.

Miriel has offensive Magic and Speed growths identical to Tharja's and comes several chapters earlier.

I think these two are placed exactly right.

[Inui]

How is a character with good stats and access to Nosferatu not much higher? Henry is really good. Sorcerer is virtually invincible, especially in this easy mode. You can send both him and Tharja into hordes of enemies with Nosferatu equipped, end your turn, hit start, and have them be at full HP with everything near them either dead or dying.

I guess Virion is low because it's lol "Hard" Mode but in Lunatic his access to high level bows is quite the extreme godsend against the DARK FLIERS OF THE ABYSS that are probably the most dangerous things in the game.

Panne as 3rd? Lol. I'll argue THIEF KELLAM above her any day. Let's go.

btw this game is bad sadly LOL

[Shadow Mir]

How is a character with good stats and access to Nosferatu not much higher? Henry is really good. Sorcerer is virtually invincible, especially in this easy mode. You can send both him and Tharja into hordes of enemies with Nosferatu equipped, end your turn, hit start, and have them be at full HP with everything near them either dead or dying.

Because Henry has AWFUL speed. Seriously, sigle digit base speed at a point in the time where the game's getting serious? No thank you.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Lord Raven]

Henry/Tharja don't crush the game in two as easily as other units do, hence they're lower than many other units on the list. Tharja's hit problems exist on hard mode because her base skill and growth are low, and Henry's base speed is a problem on hard mode no matter what. Now I'm pushing for Henry's moving up, but frankly I'm waiting for SDS to come back.

This is a hard mode tier list, I hope you know how to read the OP by now lol

go ahead and argue thief kellam, i'm curious to hear what you have to say

[Inui]

yeah I'm upset we're not talking about Lunatic Mode, Hard Mode is just wayyyy too easy

I literally deleted my file in the lategame out boredom because units LIKE HENRY were able to solo maps

this game has pair-up, so who cares about his Spd when he can be paired with X faster character and suddenly be fast, and then he's UNABLE TO DIE, ENTIRELY UNABLE TO DIE BECAUSE OF NOSFERATU THAT YOU CAN BUY IN THIS GAME

have you ever paired Tharja and Henry

their stat spreads compliment each other and fix weaknesses and they quite literally swept the entire final chapter for me by just marching forward with Nosferatu tomes

no character with access to SORCERER can be low tier

[Lord Raven]

Oh I forgot you're notorious for not really bringing up any points, carry on then, my fault for taking you seriously

[Inui]

THIEF KELLAM

HP: 85

Str: 55

Mag: 20

Skl: 65

Spd: 60

Luck: 35

Def: 60

Res: 35

>60% Def growth as a Thief

h4x

btw how many Second Seals do you have when Panne joins

Oh I forgot you're notorious for not really bringing up any points, carry on then, my fault for taking you seriously

My point is Sorcerer. That's it. There doesn't need to be another point. Henry can't die. What's the point of going on and on about it? You're telling me a character incapable of dying is bad?

[Lord Raven]

Counterpoints:

Growths just randomly posted don't mean anything. I am purposely not arguing about panne because I know if you took some time to read the last couple pages before coming into this thread and posting random shit expecting us to believe you, you probably will understand why you're wrong.

Henry at base cannot be put in the middle of the map with nosferatu and he comes kinda late so it costs some effort getting him to a point where he can do that. Ditto for tharja, because lon'qu and w/e are too strong to be a pair up bitch. Tharjas defense, by the massive amounts of data we've acquired, is quite low (30%) too so she still has hit problems. Pairing her with Henry doesn't alleviate these because he will give her +2 for most of the game. They do not die starting in chapter like 17 or 18 after a bunch of levels that aren't exactly convenient to get, but most units in this mode "don't die" on hard mode with similar investment.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Lord Raven

[SolidSense]

Why is Olivia in D tier?

I can see her being that low on Lunatic Classic, where there are forged-longbow snipers coming out of nowhere, but on Hard, she is quite good, since 1.) it's much harder for Olivia to find herself in a situation where she can die and 2.) dancer utility itself is more useful, since you can do more on player phase than you can on lunatic, where attacking on player phase usually means dying on enemy phase unless you have a ranged attack against a non-ranged opponent.

Edited March 24, 2013 by SolidSense

[Inui]

Henry has accurate and strong 2 range attacks. Tharja's aren't accurate without a good Skl pair up, but she's fast and gets two shots in. I'm really not understanding how it's difficult to raise mid-game mages when they have solid 2 range attacks, and thus don't take counters. They have huge EXP gains when they join. Once they're Sorcerers, what's stopping you from forging Nos tomes and having be TOTALLY INVINCIBLE? Only Heroes with Sol have similar cheat code status durability. Tharja and Henry blew up the final for me on Lunatic and carried my ass through ridiculous chapters on a harder mode without ever dying once and were easy to raise to promotion, so I'm not understanding how they're not both considered awesome.

When half the characters above Henry join, they're one-rounded by everything. Miriel is super high up and all she does is get one-rounded for a few chapters and tickle enemies. Why does she get to be high up?

Edited March 24, 2013 by Inui

[Paperblade]

this argument is a lost caws

Edited March 24, 2013 by Paperblade

[dondon151]

>60% Def growth as a Thief

thief sucks and offensive stats are more useful on easier difficulties

anyway bro the community has gotten much better at this game since you've been absent so

good luck arguing anything successfully

[Lord Raven]

Why is Olivia in D tier?

I can see her being that low on Lunatic Classic, where there are forged-longbow snipers coming out of nowhere, but on Hard, she is quite good, since 1.) it's much harder for Olivia to find herself in a situation where she can die and 2.) dancer utility itself is more useful, since you can do more on player phase than you can on lunatic, where attacking on player phase usually means dying on enemy phase unless you have a ranged attack against a non-ranged opponent.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=38539&view=findpost&p=2309650 <- read

Henry has accurate and strong 2 range attacks. Tharja's aren't accurate without a good Skl pair up, but she's fast and gets two shots in. I'm really not understanding how it's difficult to raise mid-game mages when they have solid 2 range attacks, and thus don't take counters. They have huge EXP gains when they join. Once they're Sorcerers, what's stopping you from forging Nos tomes and having be TOTALLY INVINCIBLE? Only Heroes with Sol have similar cheat code status durability. Tharja and Henry blew up the final for me on Lunatic and carried my ass through ridiculous chapters on a harder mode without ever dying once and were easy to raise to promotion, so I'm not understanding how they're not both considered awesome.

When half the characters above Henry join, they're one-rounded by everything. Miriel is super high up and all she does is get one-rounded for a few chapters and tickle enemies. Why does she get to be high up?

Did you read anything I said?

this argument is a lost caws

you're right Edited March 24, 2013 by Lord Raven

[Inui]

Lord Raven has a point that I'm arguing based on a mode I found so easy I literally deleted my file out of boredom and went to Lunatic. It just happened to be Henry and Tharja that made it so easy, so Henry's placement bewilders me. Seems like you're not considering pair up at all to help Tharja and Henry level up, which is well worth it when you get invincible tanks out of it.

This game is too easy to break. Anyone do an Avatar solo yet? Zzzz...

Edit: DAT EDIT

thief sucks and offensive stats are more useful on easier difficulties

anyway bro the community has gotten much better at this game since you've been absent so

good luck arguing anything successfully

THIEF KELLAM THE ELDER GOD

I'm mostly just having trouble seeing Panne as third best unit in the game

it's not evident when I see this tier list btw lol

Edited March 24, 2013 by Inui

[eclipse]

I'm mostly just having trouble seeing Panne as third best unit in the game

it's not evident when I see this tier list btw lol

ITT: Someone didn't read the earlier posts. Taguel bases are garbage, and a Second Seal gives her a neat stat boost (and flying, if Wyvern Rider is selected).

[Inui]

ITT: Someone didn't read the earlier posts. Taguel bases are garbage, and a Second Seal gives her a neat stat boost (and flying, if Wyvern Rider is selected).

How many of those do you have when she joins? I honestly don't pay attention because I'm too busy soloing with Avatar or Frederick or something. Oh, and Henry later.