Avatar the Last Airbender Mafia: D4ends 5/2 at 9:30 PM EST

[Fear The Pika]

So if that gives you a scumclipse vibe, why aren't you voting her? Do you feel that your vote on Mancer was more precedented? Do you feel that Mancer was/is more scummy than Eclipse?

##Fos: Psych

Now something that caught my eye while I was reading was FTP. FTP has a couple of posts that strike me as off. He went for a really long time without dropping a vote but definitely stated suspicions on various people. He then stated that she didn't vote because he wanted his vote to have more weight behind it. Also because he doesn't like to just throw his vote around, whatever I can understand that but what it left us with was not being able to see definte reads from FTP. After pushing he UNBOLD votes Elie, which is I guess similar to what I did but he wasn't multiple pages behind on reading.

After his unbolded vote on elie he ends up voting for the claimed vivor even though in the post right before he voted Slayer he states:

Bolded part is the important part. "If there is no better alternative." There is still plenty of time left in the day phase to decide on a lynch that isn't a claimed vivor. I really feel like the votes/opinions that FTP is putting out leave him in an easy position to swing whatever way he wants, and I dislike that. This being said:

##Vote: FTP

Based off of other stuff Elie's probably town so I plan to re-look through the people that pressed for his lynch just to see if there is anything suspicious there. I also personally feel that anyone who attempts to press a Mancer lynch isn't being helpful either. I'm not gonna mention any other townie reads but as for various other questions:

I get called suspiscious for not voting, I get called suspicious when I learn that voting is different here for D1 and do cast a vote. Which is it?

I voted for Slayer because he isn't town and D1 has more freedom for voting. I am not "pushing" the Slayer lynch, I simply have my vote on him until I see a better alternative.

TL;DNR version, you're looking for something that doesn't exist. I already stated my reason for not making a bold vote for Elie when I made an unbolded vote. If you feel my lack of voting and my statements leave me free to swing whichever way I want to, then that's how you feel. But I'm not going to apologize for the way I vote, it isn't "scummy". I could hold back with my vote, or I could change it 10 times during the day, the end result is the same.

[Prims]

I could hold back with my vote, or I could change it 10 times during the day, the end result is the same.

not really, votes are a strong indicator of opinions and make scum feel pressured so if you're holding it back the entire day your words lose meaning while if you're always voting you top suspect they're more inclined to react to pressure or panic if they're scum

[Fear The Pika]

Prims, have my questions not made it clear? Well, here's another difference between here and the site I go to. =/

[Prims]

if i'm scum i'm more likely to go "oh fuck" if i have three votes than if i have two votes and somebody asking me questions. questions don't get you lynched and you can even dissuade somebody from voting you if you answer them well.

[Prims]

Also since this is also a possible wagon I'm gonna say I'm not really feeling FtP as that scummy, it's more culture shock like Radiant Dragon in NPoT, or Ammy from last game (lmao). I could stand to hear his thoughts on the current vote targets though...

[Sunwoo]

I'm working, can't talk much right now. To answer your question though, Prims, I didn't vote Elie because I felt that he had enough votes on him at the moment and wanted to use my vote to make other people I found suspicious talk. I'll try to post more stuff when I'm not busy.

[BBM]

Yeah, I'm not really feeling the FTP wagon to be honest because his posts read sincere to me. He doesn't give me a townread, but he doesn't give me a scumread right now either.

I didn't really like parts of Shinori's last post, particularly the questions towards Slayer. "Who would you target as Doc or SK?" are different ways of asking "Who do you think is town?". We want scumreads, not townreads.

I haven't really been getting a scumread from Strege either, idk. I definitely think he should post more reads instead of sort of side-comments, but maybe it's just because I know his irl tone, but his posts sound like he's keeping quiet because he's just not really sure what to say or how to scumhunt.

[Elieson]

Bbm. I asked you a question. Did you skim over another of my posts?

[Prims]

Thoughts on Boron, BBM?

[Zanarkin]

@Slayer: Random question for you slayer, if you were a doc who would you target? Also if you were an SK who would you target at the current moment? I specifically want only Slayers answer for this question.

Doc most likely on Ellie. Not because i trust his claim but rather because i'd want him to prove it.

SK, probably psych because he can be confusing. Also Mancer because his posts also seem confusing.

[Shinori]

Yeah, I'm not really feeling the FTP wagon to be honest because his posts read sincere to me. He doesn't give me a townread, but he doesn't give me a scumread right now either.

I didn't really like parts of Shinori's last post, particularly the questions towards Slayer. "Who would you target as Doc or SK?" are different ways of asking "Who do you think is town?". We want scumreads, not townreads.

I haven't really been getting a scumread from Strege either, idk. I definitely think he should post more reads instead of sort of side-comments, but maybe it's just because I know his irl tone, but his posts sound like he's keeping quiet because he's just not really sure what to say or how to scumhunt.

Considering he is claimed not allied with the town I don't think people should be COMPLETELY trusting. I asked the questions for a reason though.

[charlie_]

And that reason was? I agree with BBM's sentiments on Shinori here.

[Shinori]

And that reason was? I agree with BBM's sentiments on Shinori here.

So you think it's weird that I'm questioning the claimed third party about things as well?

When I actually asked the question I didn't think of how it could be coming off as town reads. So I apologize for that. I'll be sure to be more careful about it in the future.

[riariadne]

Somehow I'm on those votals twice with different people voting me

##Unvote (Elieson) yeah let's not do that.

Grassbridger, the only words you've spoken of me with regards to finding me scummy was about the Team Avatar vs Fire Nation thing, and you were real quick to drop your Psych suspicion (which was also pretty barebones) for a reason as trivial as he agrees with one of your scumreads. What's up with that? And the fact that other people think he's hard to read shouldn't change things so easily- if YOU think he's scummy from what he's said then you have every right to do so.

Want more from Strege. Needs some more concrete reads rather than kind of pointless jabs. Shinori, you still didn't really answer BBM's question there... kdanger I saw you reading, you should probably say something. And SB I want to hear a bit more from you too.

##Vote: Marth

I'm still not impressed with his content as I've said before.

No I'm not going to claim, there's plenty of time and I don't want to out that if I don't need to.

[scorri]

Oh, as a reminder, if you have a thoughts quicktopic or some such thing, I'd appreciate it if you shared it with me so I can see what you're thinking.

[Shinori]

What question did he ask in his last post? All I saw was a sentence that involved the statement of an opinion?

[BBM]

Sorry Elie, I'm tired and behind on studying, so my attention hasn't been the greatest the last few days.

Basically, my vote is on Marth instead of Shinori because Marth's reads seem weaker than Shinori's. Shinori is doing scummy stuff but at least he has reads, while Marth's posts consist of votes with really bad reasoning behind them and an overall disinterested tone. He also dismissed the very early activity by saying it was mostly flavourspec, but then his first vote was based on the same, which I dislike.

I'm not really sure about Boron. Her reaction to Mancer's earlier pushes against her seemed genuine, but I don't think she's done much as far as scumhunting goes. Not sure how much of a role her being busy plays into that. What I dislike the most about her posts is that more often than not, she comes in just to defend herself, though again that might be because she's busy. Leaning slightly scummy I guess?

Prims's posts are giving me an odd feeling. There's nothing particularly scummy about them, but their tone feels off. I'm not the greatest at catching scum!Prims, but his tone reads more like it did in Awakening than it did in FFM, though that might be just because he's busy, idk.

Would be cool if we had ISOs in the first post, and my activity is probably not going to be very good for the rest of the phase.

[Kay]

Kay I'm not being grassy I'm scumHUNTING and aside from what may be an obvious player to remove from the game, I'm doing my best to formulate cases based on what I've learned over time. Calling me graspy is one thing but you're just plain disregarding everything I'm saying.

No, BBM saying "anti-town" instead of "scum" is not really scummy, IMO.

@Slayer: Random question for you slayer, if you were a doc who would you thttp://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=54&t=39539&qpid=2367623arget? Also if you were an SK who would you target at the current moment? I specifically want only Slayers answer for this question.

Shinori, now that Slayer's answered, do you think it would be reasonable to reveal why you asked these questions? Asking people about best doc targets seems like a bad idea, why reveal to the mafia who you don't want killed?

Yeah, I'm not really feeling the FTP wagon to be honest because his posts read sincere to me. He doesn't give me a townread, but he doesn't give me a scumread right now either.

I didn't really like parts of Shinori's last post, particularly the questions towards Slayer. "Who would you target as Doc or SK?" are different ways of asking "Who do you think is town?". We want scumreads, not townreads.

I haven't really been getting a scumread from Strege either, idk. I definitely think he should post more reads instead of sort of side-comments, but maybe it's just because I know his irl tone, but his posts sound like he's keeping quiet because he's just not really sure what to say or how to scumhunt.

Sorry Elie, I'm tired and behind on studying, so my attention hasn't been the greatest the last few days.

Basically, my vote is on Marth instead of Shinori because Marth's reads seem weaker than Shinori's. Shinori is doing scummy stuff but at least he has reads, while Marth's posts consist of votes with really bad reasoning behind them and an overall disinterested tone. He also dismissed the very early activity by saying it was mostly flavourspec, but then his first vote was based on the same, which I dislike.

I'm not really sure about Boron. Her reaction to Mancer's earlier pushes against her seemed genuine, but I don't think she's done much as far as scumhunting goes. Not sure how much of a role her being busy plays into that. What I dislike the most about her posts is that more often than not, she comes in just to defend herself, though again that might be because she's busy. Leaning slightly scummy I guess?

Prims's posts are giving me an odd feeling. There's nothing particularly scummy about them, but their tone feels off. I'm not the greatest at catching scum!Prims, but his tone reads more like it did in Awakening than it did in FFM, though that might be just because he's busy, idk.

Would be cool if we had ISOs in the first post, and my activity is probably not going to be very good for the rest of the phase.

The amount of waffling neutrality in these posts is ridiculous.

##Unvote (Elieson)

##Vote BBM

Post solid opinions please.

[Fear The Pika]

If Elie's claim is believable would you not like to see it in the night phase being proven (or in some other night phase). I'm up for not getting shot but given everything i have done so far its not likely that I will. Mostly because i Haven't been able to scum hunt. In any case, it isn't in the best interest of town to lynch me day 1. If i turn out to be mafia, the vig will shoot me. If the Vigilante is redirected then, i'm likely getting lynched on Day 2 partly because i survived what was aimed at me and it would make me look like scum.

In the only time I have until after school tomorrow (big test early in the morning =/), I'd rather not have him use his 1x vig shot on you if we could lynch you.

Prims/whoever it was, I'll read more on the lynch targets and post my thoughts tomorrow, I'm going to bed rather soon.

[Kay]

Okay wow I need to relearn how to quotes.

Yeah, I'm not really feeling the FTP wagon to be honest because his posts read sincere to me. He doesn't give me a townread, but he doesn't give me a scumread right now either.

I didn't really like parts of Shinori's last post, particularly the questions towards Slayer. "Who would you target as Doc or SK?" are different ways of asking "Who do you think is town?". We want scumreads, not townreads.

I haven't really been getting a scumread from Strege either, idk. I definitely think he should post more reads instead of sort of side-comments, but maybe it's just because I know his irl tone, but his posts sound like he's keeping quiet because he's just not really sure what to say or how to scumhunt.

That was supposed to be an actual quote, and I don't know how that link in Shinori's quote got there.

[riariadne]

[spoiler=ISOs for lazy people]http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=kdanger

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Sangyul

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Elieson

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=BBM

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Bluedoom

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Shinori

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Prims

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Kay

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=SlayerX

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=eclipse

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=MancerNecro

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Serious Bananas

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Strege

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Psych

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Liquid Snake

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Cap'n Flint

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Grassbridger

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&cType=topic&cId=39539&search_author=Fear The Pika

putting these in the OP would be cool

What question did he ask in his last post? All I saw was a sentence that involved the statement of an opinion?

Meant SB. You answered what you didn't thin about but not the actual question at all.

[scorri]

Man, I was in the process of getting ISOs in the OP when Rein goes and ninja's me. :P

Anyways, ISOs are in the main post now, let me know if any of them are broken.

[Strege]

Questions:

-What does ISO stand for?

-What did Prims mean by "safeguard" in post #273?

-What does the noun!name thing mean?

-Can mafia talk privately during the day?

I've been keeping my vote on Mancer for a few reasons. He seemed really scummy in the beginning, and I haven't been as sure about anyone since then (excluding Slayer, obviously, since there's no point in me voting for him right now). Elieson was the other major bandwagon, but I never felt that what he was saying was as contradictory as people made it out to be. Also, it's probably safe to say that I was pursuing that PM formatting inconsistency thing in regards to Mancer's claims, but I guess that wouldn't have made for a really convincing argument even in an ideal case. His content lately seems decent, but I'm not going to forget his slips.

Slayer has been just about useless and this comment from him:

[...] I'm up for not getting shot but given everything i have done so far its not likely that I will. Mostly because i Haven't been able to scum hunt. [...]

is nuts. The rest of the post isn't bad, but this seems like some kind of fantasy. I don't feel like I can push a lynch/vig-kill against him in particular because I don't know strategies, but I'm completely on board.

kdanger seems pretty suspicious right now. He's made a handful of posts, all deprecating his ability to play. I want to see more -- sooner rather than later.

BBM seems a lot less confident after Slayer was revealed than before, which is the opposite of what I'd expect considering he made the discovery. Compensating for his overeager vote against Slayer seems like a likely reason, but BBM has previously made very firm counterarguments against Elie and an evasive strategy is inconsistent. It feels like he's confusing the vote without much commitment, and some of his language has been scummy. It's all been pretty minor so I won't quote a post, but one example is him arguing against Slayer as if he were a third party and then following up with a (paraphrased) "not to mention you could be mafia" post. I believe that he's busy right now, but he's climbing my list in a hurry.
##Unvote (Mancer), ##Vote: BBM

I don't understand something else: eclipse said we shouldn't consider lynching a PGO since the redirector might not be scum. Elie says he's reluctant to shoot Slayer because the redirector might be scum. Eclipse and Elie are advocating inaction based on opposite assumptions. Is this logic okay?

I don't know if these count as "concrete reads" or "pointless jabs", but I'm open to criticism.

[BBM]

I was asked my opinion about Boron, so I explained my nullread against her. I explained my nullread against FTP because unless I'm mistaken, his is the largest wagon at the moment and I don't particularly feel like lynching him at the moment. I explained my nullread about Prims simply because his posts were kind of giving me a weird feeling. I explained a nullread on Strege because Prims voted him. Yes, I have a bunch of waffly nullreads. It's D1, that's to be expected.

If you want my scumreads, I think Marth and Shinori are scummy, and to a lesser extent, Rein and Psych. Elieson was a scumread but I don't see a reason to disbelieve the Vig claim atm, so he's not there anymore. I've explained all of those at some point or the other as well.

Kay's post against me where she defends me against one of Elieson's points and then attacks my other posts at the same time feel bad to me. There was also the kind of sheepy Elie vote near the beginning of the phase, and I dislike the fact that she literally took two posts where I waffled and disregarded all the ones where I didn't, and based a vote on that.

[BBM]

ISO- Posts in isolation. ISOing somebody means reading their posts in isolation from all the others in the thread.

Safeguard- Safeguard is a role that blocks all other non-killing actions against its target. In that case, Prims was talking about a safeguard being able to block a possible attempt to redirect Elieson's vigshot to someone else.

noun!name- Not sure what you mean here?

Mafia can talk to each other during the day in almost all games, so unless Scorri says otherwise, probably safe to assume that they can here as well.