RTU discussion thread

[Constable Reggie]

By the time Inigo's recruited, Olivia's poor stats hurt him beyond belief. Pretty pathetic, really.

Virion at least has lots of free time to contribute, whether it be chip or just pairing up.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Lon'Qu!Gerome is kinda messy

Gerome did not get any of his desired skills, and Assassin is pretty cool I guess

Also Inigo? Trained into good unit?

Unless you are talking about min maxing, Lol

Hes like..... say Wendy, if Wendy joined 15 chapters later and has all her stats reduced by 5

[Da Bear]

Inigo's just going to be recruited, then benched.

Also, Virion has pretty much the entire game to get somewhere, unlike Inigo. Even IF Inigo can turn out the better unit, Virion's contributions earlier on are still superior. It's like comparing Wil to Nino, in a way.

EDIT: No love for Lon'qu!Gerome? Shame.

Same as Virion. If Virion is, for some reason, used than his combat isn't a contribution. It's hurting the team's attempt to clear the map because everything attacks him and he dies without even countering. Leaving your strong units to waste a turn cleaning up after him. He never really gets better either.

Hope Reggie notices this,

He's not terrible if you can get him to wyvern, it's just his awful start that hurts him. High availability and pair up help him somewhat.

He's actually still terrible. He's probably the only (first generation) unit in the game that is harder to level up than Donnel. He'll reach Wyvern and everyone else will be promoting. Leaving him as still the worst unit on the team.

Edited May 25, 2013 by bearclaw13

[charlie_]

I love me some -- strength Wendy.

Either Virion or Inigo can get somewhere with enough effort poured into them (or Inigo's parents I guess) so I figure Virion wins on account of being around longer to get out of his rut, while Inigo's playing catchup really quickly while the other children are joining at the same time.

[Constable Reggie]

Donnel is a huge pain in the ass to level up, even if he is paired up. He's not even comparable to Virion in that regard.

Seriously, he's not that unusable. I usually leave 1-2's to chumps like Nino, Sophia, Wendy, the worst fe12 prepromotes, etc. Virion has options.

[Da Bear]

I love me some -- strength Wendy.

Either Virion or Inigo can get somewhere with enough effort poured into them (or Inigo's parents I guess) so I figure Virion wins on account of being around longer to get out of his rut, while Inigo's playing catchup really quickly while the other children are joining at the same time.

Except Virion doesn't get out of his "rut" without a second seal and even with one he's still one of the worst units on your team. Unless you feel like wasting turns and EXP on him he contributes nothing. If you do pour into him than he doesn't come close to paying off his investment.

Inigo has massive trouble too but he can be made good with work. He can actually become pretty good. He has the Hero class to give him Sol. Virion has no good things to look forward too. Inigo does.

Donnel is a huge pain in the ass to level up, even if he is paired up. He's not even comparable to Virion in that regard.

Seriously, he's not that unusable. I usually leave 1-2's to chumps like Nino, Sophia, Wendy, the worst fe12 prepromotes, etc. Virion has options.

Virion is just as big of a pain and doesn't become invincible like Donnel. Your point is...?

Unusable? No. No one in this game is unusable. He's a wasted investment. How many times do I have to say this; he never comes close to giving back what you gave him;.

Edited May 25, 2013 by bearclaw13

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

The problem with Inigo

Alvailability

This is EVEN WORSE because Olivia is a freaking Dancer. Getting Inigo in reasonable timeframe actively hurt your team because it forces Olivia to Pair Up(with her shit offense and shit bonus) into a unit who can perform with that in mind

Okay, as a comparison Virion joins early and provide sexy pair up bonus. Inigo joined extremely ridiculously late, since Olivia can't reasonably dance her ass off in said "reasonable timeframe"unless you used Chrom x Olivia

Guess what? Chrom x Olivia ALSO hurt your team because of the S support is wasted on Olivia who, again is a Dancer

So, yeah pretty simmilar if you ask me, except Inigo can potentially hurt your team even worse throughout the game

Edited May 25, 2013 by JSND

[charlie_]

Bow Knight isn't a terrible class. And I'm not saying the Second Seal belongs to him, but if the player's actually using him there's a pretty good chance he'll get the thing imo.

[Da Bear]

Bow Knight isn't a terrible class. And I'm not saying the Second Seal belongs to him, but if the player's actually using him there's a pretty good chance he'll get the thing imo.

umm... Why? He's not getting a second seal over Vaike, Miriel, Panne, Sully, etc. He needs it but he doesn't use it well. Why give it to him? Also Bow Knight gives him nothing but the ability to enjoy E sword rank at like Chapter 13 or something. Early-promoting him ruins his potential and uses one of 2 pre-Chapter 12 master seals.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Pair Up and Bow Rank from Bow Knight

[Da Bear]

The problem with Inigo

Alvailability

This is EVEN WORSE because Olivia is a freaking Dancer. Getting Inigo in reasonable timeframe actively hurt your team because it forces Olivia to Pair Up(with her shit offense and shit bonus) into a unit who can perform with that in mind

Okay, as a comparison Virion joins early and provide sexy pair up bonus. Inigo joined extremely ridiculously late, since Olivia can't reasonably dance her ass off in said "reasonable timeframe"unless you used Chrom x Olivia

Guess what? Chrom x Olivia ALSO hurt your team because of the S support is wasted on Olivia who, again is a Dancer

So, yeah pretty simmilar if you ask me, except Inigo can potentially hurt your team even worse throughout the game

Inigo is terrible. I never denied this.

Virion's pair up bonuses are far from "sexy".

You brought up Chrom x Olivia not me.

You seem to be ignoring a great unit who can use Olivia's pair up bonuses, Henry. It's not his best option but he probably isn't getting his best option so...

[Constable Reggie]

Why would you ever, ever pair up dancer Olivia, besides a few lifesaving moments?

Edited May 25, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Da Bear]

Why would you ever, ever pair up dancer Olivia?

...Because dancing has no real point in this game?

[Constable Reggie]

Then why use Olivia at all?

[Da Bear]

Then why use Olivia at all?

Why use Virion at all?

Also Olivia can give people speed. Which is pretty valuable.

Edited May 25, 2013 by bearclaw13

[Randa]

Quick note on Virion he has all the same issues that sully does with none of the positive and people are still giving him 6.

[ZemZem]

Same as Virion. If Virion is, for some reason, used than his combat isn't a contribution. It's hurting the team's attempt to clear the map because everything attacks him and he dies without even countering. Leaving your strong units to waste a turn cleaning up after him. He never really gets better either.

Hope Reggie notices this,

He's actually still terrible. He's probably the only (first generation) unit in the game that is harder to level up than Donnel. He'll reach Wyvern and everyone else will be promoting. Leaving him as still the worst unit on the team.

Virion is forced in two chapters. He can actually do something, whether it be pairing up with someone to give them DEF or providing some nice chip damage. Compare to Inigo, who:

1. Can't do much in his joining paralogue due to the sheer amount of high powered enemies.

2. If Olivia is paired so Inigo can be accessed, she's a dancer and passes down terribad stats to her son, and if you want Inigo to be somewhat good, it requires you to forcefully use Olivia so she can get somewhere, but that in turn hurts your team due to her being babied a ton.

3. Joins halfway past the game, compared to Virion joining in the second chapter and having near-perfect availability.

Also, Virion can provide some help against the wyverns in Chapter 5, Chapter 7, maybe Chapter 9, etc., which is something positive he contributes in. And once again, STR and DEF in pair ups helps units such as Sumia (but she'd rather pair up with Frederick, Kellam, or Vaike because they provide better), but my point still stands. Virion is pretty bad, but he's way better than Inigo.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

The fact that hes an 6 and people give Frederick an 4 is insulting

Also note that if you actually used Olivia as a Dancer, even if you babied lap dance her on someone, it still take A TONS of time to get there, making Inigo's alvailability even worse

Edited May 25, 2013 by JSND

[Constable Reggie]

Everyone already knows that Virion isn't exactly the best of characters.

So I ask again, why would you ever use Olivia (and as a result, Inigo) if you're not dancing with her?

[Da Bear]

Virion is forced in two chapters. He can actually do something, whether it be pairing up with someone to give them DEF or providing some nice chip damage. Compare to Inigo, who:

1. Can't do much in his joining paralogue due to the sheer amount of high powered enemies.

2. If Olivia is paired so Inigo can be accessed, she's a dancer and passes down terribad stats to her son, and if you want Inigo to be somewhat good, it requires you to forcefully use Olivia so she can get somewhere, but that in turn hurts your team due to her being babied a ton.

3. Joins halfway past the game, compared to Virion joining in the second chapter and having near-perfect availability.

Also, Virion can provide some help against the wyverns in Chapter 5, Chapter 7, maybe Chapter 9, etc., which is something positive he contributes in. And once again, STR and DEF in pair ups helps units such as Sumia (but she'd rather pair up with Frederick, Kellam, or Vaike because they provide better), but my point still stands. Virion is pretty bad, but he's way better than Inigo.

The maps are so wide open that having Virion "chip" is basically the same as throwing him into the middle of the map and watching him die. Which is bad, very bad.

At any rate who is Virion pairing up with? Chrom x Sully and MU x Frederick (or switch Sully and Frederick) works way better than anything including the "archest of archers"? Chapter 2 looks the same with Vaike pairing with Stahl. So who is Virion ever pairing up with?

The fact that hes an 6 and people give Frederick an 4 is insulting

Also note that if you actually used Olivia as a Dancer, even if you babied lap dance her on someone, it still take A TONS of time to get there, making Inigo's alvailability even worse

Agreed. Giving Virion anything above like 2 is filled with bias.

Everyone already knows that Virion isn't exactly the best of characters.

So I ask again, why would you ever use Olivia (and as a result, Inigo) if you're not dancing with her?

And I'll answer again. Her giving speed can be useful on certain characters.

[Constable Reggie]

How is 3 speed and no dual attacks ever worth a deployment slot.

[Ema Skye]

umm... Why? He's not getting a second seal over Vaike, Miriel, Panne, Sully, etc. He needs it but he doesn't use it well. Why give it to him? Also Bow Knight gives him nothing but the ability to enjoy E sword rank at like Chapter 13 or something. Early-promoting him ruins his potential and uses one of 2 pre-Chapter 12 master seals.

RTUs assume units are being used in vaccums, meaning that it's perfectly okay to give them resources without considering opportunity costs.

[ZemZem]

The maps are so wide open that having Virion "chip" is basically the same as throwing him into the middle of the map and watching him die. Which is bad, very bad.

At any rate who is Virion pairing up with? Chrom x Sully and MU x Frederick (or switch Sully and Frederick) works way better than anything including the "archest of archers"? Chapter 2 looks the same with Vaike pairing with Stahl. So who is Virion ever pairing up with?

If Virion dies, you're obviously being pretty damn careless. I've never had Virion die when he's chipping away at an enemy.

Someone who'd like a boost in DEF, obviously, such as Miriel. Sumia, too, but only if Frederick, Vaike, and/or Kellam are busy elsewhere. You can't deny the fact that a Pair Up boost in DEF is useful.

[Da Bear]

RTUs assume units are being used in vaccums, meaning that it's perfectly okay to give them resources without considering opportunity costs.

Okay then. It's still not worth it because he remains terrible.

How is 3 speed and no dual attacks ever worth a deployment slot.

Look dude did I ever say it was optimal? No. I'm saying it's a possibility.

If Virion dies, you're obviously being pretty damn careless. I've never had Virion die when he's chipping away at an enemy.

Someone who'd like a boost in DEF, obviously, such as Miriel. Sumia, too, but only if Frederick, Vaike, and/or Kellam are busy elsewhere. You can't deny the fact that a Pair Up boost in DEF is useful.

You're right most of the time instead of dying he lives to clog up space and attract enemies to himself over good units another day.

...I really don't get your point, for Virion to be used for pair ups you have to be using pretty much every character. Which is absurd and not really worth considering.

Edited May 25, 2013 by bearclaw13

[ZemZem]

You're right most of the time instead of dying he lives to clog up space and attract enemies to himself over good units another day.

...I really don't get your point, for Virion to be used for pair ups you have to be using pretty much every character. Which is absurd and not really worth considering.

You're making it sound like we're going up against a full hoard of enemies. :P I don't know how you play, but whenever Virion chips at an enemy, that enemy goes down the following attack and Virion is left mostly unscathed during the enemy phase (or one or two enemies attack him, but they're handled easily).

He can pair up with someone in his two forced chapters and give them DEF. I never mentioned pairing Virion with someone somehow means you use every single character. Don't put words in my mouth.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Zeem