Touhou NOCfia - Game Over

[Shinori]

I mean according to manix: Scum would be me and BBM. However I am lynch proof and if he knows/thinks we are both scum why bother chancing a wasted lynch on someone when he can go for the other scum.

Manix if you think BBM is scum as well you should just lynch him. Why do you seem so against it considering that from your PoV he has to be scum. Why are you so dead set on lynching me over him? Hm?

[Sunwoo]

No it just tells you if someone visited the target you visited.

It's not a watcher potion.

... Welp ;/

I'm not going to vote either BBM or Shinori at this point because I don't want to risk someone hammering, but Shinori it'd be nice if you could explain some of your actions. Like I said, after D2, you haven't really scum hunted much and I don't like some of your actions and can't see the town motive in them. Like blocking everyone's day actions on D3 and slipping Proto a lethal potion the way you did.

Also, on D5, you randomly stated that you thought Xinnidy was scum of the blue, after she claimed doc. The only mention of Xinnidy in your ISO before that is when you passed her a potion so she could use her spellcard on BBM and when you told us what message you sent her on N1 (I think). This strikes me as weird.

There's another thing I find weird -- that your potion that makes you lynchproof is not deactivated in MYLO/LYLO. According to BBM, his spell card does not work in MYLO/LYLO, and apparently SB's doesn't either (remind me, where was this stated in the thread). I might be going into rolespec right now, but I would think that anything that can make you lynchproof, unless it's just an inherent part of your role (which apparently it's not), should have deactivated ;/

[BBM]

Shinori, Strege voting me is different from Strege voting you. If Strege votes me, Manix can switch over and quickhammer. If Strege votes you, both me and Manix are already voting you, and you're not going to vote yourself. So one of Boron and Kirsche would have to quickhammer.

So yeah, telling him to vote for me at this point is encouraging a quickhammer.

I probably should have actually tried to suggest which one of the investigative roles I'd rather lynch, and I would have, but it was met with a pretty negative response rather quickly, so I didn't really bother.

Kirsche, I don't understand what basis you're declaring me/Boron and Manix/Shinori as unlikely teams. If you discount that Boron gave us a scum, me and Boron have never really attacked each other much. I might have gone after her a little bit at the beginning of D5, but IIRC when Paperblade was attacking her, I was defending her for the most part. As for Manix/Shinori, Manix is voting Shinori today and that's it.

[Shinori]

Shinori, Strege voting me is different from Strege voting you. If Strege votes me, Manix can switch over and quickhammer. If Strege votes you, both me and Manix are already voting you, and you're not going to vote yourself. So one of Boron and Kirsche would have to quickhammer.

Lol.

Also boron I already explained as to why I gave that potion to proto a while back.

As for the mass role block I did that because I didn't want anything to happen upon the time of my claiming. I figured it would block kills. Apparently it didn't. I didn't read it fully before using the spell card.

Also I didn't really see a better time to use the spellcard.

Also about the xinnidy thing sec, I'll quote what I said in my own pm.

[Strege]

NO TECHNICALLY A RULES VIOLATION

[Shinori]

I really think that Elie lynch was awful but I wasn't around much through the last day phase and didn't do what I actually wanted to do near phase end cause I wasn't sure if I had enough time to pull my ploy.

Also at this rate since I don't know exactly everything about that neighbor thing supposedly I think that a godfather being in there is highly plausible if it works like that, if it isn't a cult or anything anyway. I also really think Kevin is scum because I find it randomly convenient that he can only use his ability if a scum member has already died when no other spell cards have been declared to have a limitation on them, yet his does. However before trying to lynch him I want to try something else on a different scumread BEFORE him. I'm gonna try to trick someone into drinking the black potion.

Currently I think there is definite scum amongst scorri/kevin/SB/Xin'dy If not multiple scum members. And possibly Cam, but I'm not sure.

Actually Boron might be scum role cop to be frank since that matches a lot.

That was actually stated on June 23rd at 6:21 PM

[Shinori]

The fuck it said there was a reply and i refreshed and it wasn't there. after I posted strege's post was there.

[Shinori]

I'm not quoting direct communication with a mod. I'm stating what I said in my own thoughts.

[Strege]

I'm not quoting direct communication with a mod. I'm stating what I said in my own thoughts.

Oops, thought you meant with the mod. Excuse me.

[Shinori]

Does anyone not find it weird at all that both bbm and manix are only pushing me?

From BBM's PoV he would have to know manix and me are scum.

From Manix's PoV he would have to know Me and BBM are scum.

Yet both of them are only pushing me and aren't pushing each other AT ALL. Especially considering there is still me claiming lynchproof. Even if they think I'm bluffing they would have to know there is the chance that it's true, so why aren't they worried about pushing the other 'scum' member who hasn't claimed anything like lynch proof? Why are they so content with just only pushing me?

[Shinori]

Frankly I'm fine with lynching either BBM or Manix. Cause they are both scum. I could care less which of the two get's lynched first.

[Sunwoo]

Also boron I already explained as to why I gave that potion to proto a while back.

As for the mass role block I did that because I didn't want anything to happen upon the time of my claiming. I figured it would block kills. Apparently it didn't. I didn't read it fully before using the spell card.

The problem I have is that your actions still seem dodgy and not definitive of being town. You gave Proto the black potion because you wanted to quell concerns about a cult, right? Thing is if you are scum then you'd know that he wasn't scum-aligned, so either you confirm the presence of a cult/kill cult leader or get rid of a townie. As for the mass role block, again, there could still have been scum intent in that.

The Xinnidy thing you state in your role PM doesn't state WHY you suspected her as scum, though. It just shows that you thought that scum was between her and some other people. You went into detail on why you thought kirsche was scum. I cannot tell what you're thinking if you just say "I think scum is between Xinnidy and blah".

[BBM]

Responding to valid points with "lol" really doesn't endear me to you, Shinori.

And I already stated that I thought Manix was scum. But just in case Boron turns out to have bussed Xinny, I do need to pick one person out of you and him to push for today, and I picked you. I gave my reasons for it too, at the beginning of the phase. If Boron, Kirsche, and Strege would rather lynch Manix than lynch you, I'll go with that too.

I'm pushing more for you because I don't believe your claim of a lynchproof potion at all, and if Boron/Strege/Kirsche choose Manix over you today just because of that, there's a good chance they'll pick me over you tomorrow for the exact same reason. So I'd rather lynch you today than push you to tomorrow.

[BBM]

Basically, the "WHY CHANCE LYNCHPROOF" is dumb because we're going to have to chance it, either today or tomorrow, or just let you pass simply based on that, which I refuse to do both because it would result in my mislynch either today or tomorrow, and because it'll be really dumb.

That's why I'm confident that your lynchproof is a fake. You're not using it in a way that a townie would, from not outing it several phases ago to using it to delay your lynch today.

[Shinori]

BORON. IMA GIVE YOU MY LYNCH PROOF POTION.

You can break it and it will tell you what the potion would have otherwise done.

##Give Boron Burnt Sienna

[Shinori]

Cause frankly if I get lynched today even if I use my lynchproof potion town loses.

[Zkirsche]

Kirsche, I don't understand what basis you're declaring me/Boron and Manix/Shinori as unlikely teams. If you discount that Boron gave us a scum, me and Boron have never really attacked each other much. I might have gone after her a little bit at the beginning of D5, but IIRC when Paperblade was attacking her, I was defending her for the most part. As for Manix/Shinori, Manix is voting Shinori today and that's it.

Well I think Boron is likely town so she's unlikely to be part of a scum team. That scum team is reasonable but unlikely, Manix/Boron is completely unreasonable.

They weren't getting along well D6 either and tbh he's done enough today to make me suspect that it's less likely than a scum team with you in it.

Also if I'm harmful third why do you not suspect that I'll just quick hammer him if I feel like it? You're putting an awful lot of trust in me there.

[BBM]

Because it doesn't benefit you to quickhammer. If you're harmful third, you don't actually know whether Shinori is town or whether he's scum. If he's town, quickhammering him could result in the mafia winning, meaning you lose.

Even if Boron confirms it as a lynchproof potion, I'm not going to unvote you. All it means is that one of my reasons for thinking you were scum (the lynchproof looking like a fake) were wrong. Scum lynchproofs still exist, and there are enough other reasons for me to find you scummier than Manix, and therefore a higher priority.

[BBM]

It should be easy to see from context, but in the first paragraph, "you" refers to Kirsche, and in the second, it refers to Shinori.

[Shinori]

I don't expect you to remove your vote from me. You and manix are set to lynch me because your scum and you're looking for the only viable target for you to lynch.

[BBM]

Frankly I'm fine with lynching either BBM or Manix. Cause they are both scum. I could care less which of the two get's lynched first.

This is the sort of thing that I find scummy with Shinori, because he's not taking all possibilities into account. Of all people, SHINORI should know that mafia Rolecops can bus their buddies for towncred, however unlikely it might be. I refuse to believe that Shinori, if town, wouldn't even take it into account, and actually try to make a decision as to which of me and Manix he'd rather lynch first.

For reference to Strege and Kirsche, Shinori was a mafia Rolecop in Haphazard Mafia and bussed his scumbuddy to become Town Leader (it was OC).

[Sunwoo]

I broke Shinori's potion. He wasn't lying about it making him lynchproof for the rest of the phase.

Okay, so ... this is really giving me second thoughts right now. I suppose one could argue that Shinori did it for the town cred, but if the potion really did activate in LYLO, as scum he could have just held onto it and delayed his lynch by a day. If the potion didn't activate, he could have still pretended that it did and not handed it over. Ugh ...

I'm really at a loss right now. I still feel that as a whole BBM and Manix's previous in-thread actions seems less dodgy than Shinori's, but I don't feel that it's quite that simple anymore. I'm probably going to have to reread the entirety of the game to try to see if there's anything I may have missed or that jump out to me now.

This is gonna take a while.

[BBM]

I don't expect you to remove your vote from me. You and manix are set to lynch me because your scum and you're looking for the only viable target for you to lynch.

Not really, at 2/2/1/1, a lynch of anybody not mafia + NK results in a win for scum. Why would I argue so vehemently for the lynch of someone claiming lynchproof capabilities if that would just result in LYLO tomorrow instead of victory?

[BBM]

Oh yeah, just remembered. I don't get Manix's logic of "weak roles must be scum". We've established that small mafia = strong mafia roles, haven't we? What's strong about a Mafia Announcer? All it can do is prove its role, whoop-de-doo. I could be hiding a part of my role, I guess, but so could anybody else, and I would have to be hiding a lot more than anybody else, which would therefore give more places to get caught out in a lie.

[BBM]

Kirsche, I don't understand why Manix/Shinori is "reasonable but unlikely". I see the logic behind the rest of the statements, but I don't see the logic there. The difference between that and Manix/me is that Manix voted Shinori. But Shinori never voted Manix, and if he really doesn't care which of me/Manix gets lynched (which is scummy in and of itself), why is he voting me over Manix? As for Manix not voting me atm, all it would take is Boron or Strege to vote me, and Manix could switch over and hammer easily. In some ways, as scum, not voting town is actually more beneficial, because other people are less wary of voting that person.