Touhou NOCfia - Game Over

[Shinori]

This is the sort of thing that I find scummy with Shinori, because he's not taking all possibilities into account. Of all people, SHINORI should know that mafia Rolecops can bus their buddies for towncred, however unlikely it might be. I refuse to believe that Shinori, if town, wouldn't even take it into account, and actually try to make a decision as to which of me and Manix he'd rather lynch first.

For reference to Strege and Kirsche, Shinori was a mafia Rolecop in Haphazard Mafia and bussed his scumbuddy to become Town Leader (it was OC).

Except I highly doubt that a role cop would do it at this point in time in the game where a single misslynch could net scum a win. It was mylo yestarday apparently the entire day. Prims said so himself. Scum would have known that and wouldn't aim to bus someone when all they need is one mislynch.

[Shinori]

Also lol BBM @ you saying that I'm not thinking of scum role cop. When I had already mentioned that. However you and manix have both taken this into a situation where you guys instantly came into the phase saying that Boron was probobaly not scum and that it was down to me you and manix. JUST SAYIN

[Shinori]

Well, it's most likely 2/2/1/1. Strege is one of those 1s. Kirsche is either my fellow town member or the second third, from SSG Cop report. Boron being mafia is pretty unlikely, so she's also either town or third. So FMPOV this leaves Manix/Shinori as scumteam. From Manix's POV, it leaves me/Shinori as scumteam. And from Shinori's POV, it leaves me/Manix as scumteam.

This basically means that we should lynch between me/Manix/Shinori today, as two of us are almost certainly mafia, and they are a larger threat today than the third(s) is/are.

I don't reaaally care which of the two, but Shinori's actions have been slightly more offensive, so I'd rather lynch him first, just in case Boron turns out to be pulling a Shinori.

My thoughts about Manix vs Shinori are basically this: They both coasted heavily through certain points of the game, but I feel as if Manix's D2 was actually good, whereas Shinori never really had a good day as much as a single moment of what I felt at the time was towntelling (the D3 reaction-test).

This is the sort of thing that I find scummy with Shinori, because he's not taking all possibilities into account. Of all people, SHINORI should know that mafia Rolecops can bus their buddies for towncred, however unlikely it might be. I refuse to believe that Shinori, if town, wouldn't even take it into account, and actually try to make a decision as to which of me and Manix he'd rather lynch first.

For reference to Strege and Kirsche, Shinori was a mafia Rolecop in Haphazard Mafia and bussed his scumbuddy to become Town Leader (it was OC).

Lol What a change of opinion so quickly.

[BBM]

No, I stated that Boron was PROBABLY TOWN, but that I was still going to lynch whomever was scummiest instead of not caring because the possibility still exists of her not being town. So don't tell me that I'm not taking that possibility into account. Even if she IS scum, one of me/you/Manix is still scum, so lynching one of us three is still the best bet for town today.

Saying my opinion has changed is a complete misrep.

[Zkirsche]

Because it doesn't benefit you to quickhammer. If you're harmful third, you don't actually know whether Shinori is town or whether he's scum. If he's town, quickhammering him could result in the mafia winning, meaning you lose.

I could be an insomniac traitor. I'm not, but you don't know that.

Kirsche, I don't understand why Manix/Shinori is "reasonable but unlikely". I see the logic behind the rest of the statements, but I don't see the logic there. The difference between that and Manix/me is that Manix voted Shinori. But Shinori never voted Manix, and if he really doesn't care which of me/Manix gets lynched (which is scummy in and of itself), why is he voting me over Manix? As for Manix not voting me atm, all it would take is Boron or Strege to vote me, and Manix could switch over and hammer easily. In some ways, as scum, not voting town is actually more beneficial, because other people are less wary of voting that person.

Shinori is scummy as hell atm and he is really getting on my nerves so that scumteam is becoming more and more reasonable. Maybe it's just a hunch, but I think you/Manix is more likely. Then again, my hunches this game have been terrible aside from Scorri so ;/

[BBM]

My opinion has intensified, yes, but it hasn't changed. I've gone from leaning in one direction (caring slightly as to which of you/Manix gets lynched) to leaning more in that direction (caring a lot which of you gets lynched), not leaning in one direction to leaning in another direction as you're suggesting.

As long as the day kills weren't mafia-aligned, the mafia had no way of knowing that two extra people were going to die yesterday. If I'm interpreting the numbers correctly, it was only potential MYLO because of those kills. So mafia might not have known it was MYLO either, and even if they did, bussing one scum for a much easier victory the next day is a completely valid strategy.

[BBM]

If Boron is town, or even ITP, she'll be dead tonight. The mafia leaving her alive for the chance of WIFOM isn't worth it. So I'm taking the possibility of her being scum more and more into account, but I feel that as long as we lynch correctly today, it'll either resolve itself by tomorrow, or we'll have to actually look at who's the scummiest between Boron and whoever else is left.

[Strege]

Excuse me for only now thinking of this; I think this is my first forum MYLO and I'm in a peculiar position.

##Vote: No Lynch

I need information, and right now there are two ways to get it. The first is from extending the game. The alternative, which is more valuable, is hearing Boron's spellcard claim. I will trade you one for one because that is the only thing I can do to promote my wincon.

[Sunwoo]

If Boron is town, or even ITP, she'll be dead tonight. The mafia leaving her alive for the chance of WIFOM isn't worth it. So I'm taking the possibility of her being scum more and more into account, but I feel that as long as we lynch correctly today, it'll either resolve itself by tomorrow, or we'll have to actually look at who's the scummiest between Boron and whoever else is left.

I dislike statements like these. You can't assume what scum will be thinking, or who they will shoot during the night or why. By all means, I agree that I'm not clear. But something like this sounds like you could be setting up for a mislynch or lining up lynches, because you're saying that if I'm not scum then I'll be dead tonight and if I am then I'm most almost certainly scum. Never mind that we don't know what scum is thinking or who they will shoot or how.

[Sunwoo]

I need information, and right now there are two ways to get it. The first is from extending the game. The alternative, which is more valuable, is hearing Boron's spellcard claim. I will trade you one for one because that is the only thing I can do to promote my wincon.

Strege, if you're harmless third party, then I'd really hate to screw you out of your win. However, I'm looking at the numbers right now and I'm not sure if letting you go poof is in town's best interests at the moment. If you don't mind sticking around a bit and helping town, then I will tell you my spell card before the game is over.

[Strege]

Strege, if you're harmless third party, then I'd really hate to screw you out of your win. However, I'm looking at the numbers right now and I'm not sure if letting you go poof is in town's best interests at the moment. If you don't mind sticking around a bit and helping town, then I will tell you my spell card before the game is over.

The mafia kills have been admittedly random but I kind of doubt you'll survive the night.

[Zkirsche]

Then it's simple: I'll invite Boron to talk to me tonight and she can out her spellcard then. It'd also provide me with a good use of my role at long last, so we'll be killing two birds with one stone.

I assume Boron is ok with that?

[Sunwoo]

You'll have to forgive me if I'm wary of you going poof and lowering the number of votes required to hammer to 3.

[Strege]

Also, I probably won't be going poof tonight at any rate.

[Sunwoo]

Strege, how exactly are you to achieve your win-con? Forgive me if it feels like prying, but at this point do you think you can even win?

[Strege]

Strege, how exactly are you to achieve your win-con? Forgive me if it feels like prying, but at this point do you think you can even win?

I need to send Prims a message linking 19 spellcards to the people who owned them at the start of the game, not including myself. I can absolutely confirm 12 of them, and have a solid guess of 2 others. If I know yours then I'll have 15 basically confirmed (as yours will help me with one of the guesses). I also know a few more effects and can eliminate certain combinations from the remaining players.

It's not super likely, but I think "Play to win" still applies, even if I have to be stubborn to do it. I hate to play pseudo-kingmaker here, but I don't think I can truly abstain from the proceedings. I think you are town and if you help me I will help you.

I think this makes sense?

[Grace]

hi

just because shinori had a lynchproof potion/whatever doesn't mean much considering low scum, likely high power

bbm; about the weakrole stuff; you are probably faking and there's more to your role that we don't know. i made a comparison to kirsche's role which implied out the conclusion that you were both antitown for similar (and rolespeccy) reasons

also there's still the unexplained actions fail on paper n2, so scum are still hiding something. hence, my conclusion.

strege; don't think no lynch is an option at this point; unless ur mafsiding

let's see (assume no additional kills besides the mafia nightkill or w/e)

2/2/1/1 now, becomes 1/2/1/1 or 2/2/1 tomorrow, neither of which are beneficial to town because it makes it lylo with a third party who can effectively joint with the mafia (i don't think mafia will kill strege), which is pretty much autoloss for town.

[Grace]

or self-siding, also works

[Shinori]

Have you asked prims if you win alongside town? Cause if so then just side with us and lynch scum then you win. >_>

[Sunwoo]

I need to send Prims a message linking 19 spellcards to the people who owned them at the start of the game, not including myself. I can absolutely confirm 12 of them, and have a solid guess of 2 others. If I know yours then I'll have 15 basically confirmed (as yours will help me with one of the guesses). I also know a few more effects and can eliminate certain combinations from the remaining players.

It's not super likely, but I think "Play to win" still applies, even if I have to be stubborn to do it. I hate to play pseudo-kingmaker here, but I don't think I can truly abstain from the proceedings. I think you are town and if you help me I will help you.

I think this makes sense?

I see.

[Strege]

Have you asked prims if you win alongside town? Cause if so then just side with us and lynch scum then you win. >_>

Checking now.

[BBM]

@Boron- The second sentence of that post you quoted, the one you didn't bold, goes on to say that if you don't die tonight, then I'll disregard the cop report and actually try to see whether you look scummier or townier than whoever else is left.

We'll wait for what Prims tells Strege, but personally I don't think that Prims would let Strege have a Survivor-esque alternate wincon that lets him joint with town if they win, since he doesn't like Survivors, since they tend to just coast.

[Grace]

you know

i've been holding onto my spellcard all damn game; so boron/strege: want it?

reminder that it grants an additional shot to any shotbased spellcards you guys have

[Sunwoo]

@Boron- The second sentence of that post you quoted, the one you didn't bold, goes on to say that if you don't die tonight, then I'll disregard the cop report and actually try to see whether you look scummier or townier than whoever else is left.

I expect you to do that if I don't die tonight. But if I do die, shouldn't you be doing that anyway with the people who are left the next phase? How do you know that you won't die tonight and will actually be around tomorrow to make these decisions? I'm not taking issue with the part that I didn't bold. That's why I didn't bold it in the first place. But you made it sound like you expect my death, above anyone else's, to happen tonight. That is what's tipping me off. What if scum decides to not kill me, so they can push suspicion on me that way? It sounds like you're setting up suspicion and try to sow the seeds for the next day's lynch.

[BBM]

Then it's simple: I'll invite Boron to talk to me tonight and she can out her spellcard then. It'd also provide me with a good use of my role at long last, so we'll be killing two birds with one stone.

I assume Boron is ok with that?

Wait what? You can neighbourize someone? I swear you never mentioned this earlier. ;/

I don't expect to get NKed because I'm one of the largest ML candidates left. Boron, if you die tonight, then the only variable in who might be scum is eliminated. Then I'll be 100% sure that whoever of Shinori/Manix is left is scum.