SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Knight]

So to put it in a nutshell you should use counter when fighting people like Ganandorf.

No. Don't use counter in the air when fighting ganondorf. Use counter whenever you can predict your opponent is going to attack and you have time to counter. (and you know they won't grab)

[kingddd]

So to put it in a nutshell you should use counter when fighting people like Ganandorf.

ehehehe the number of times I up+tilt with ganondorf and they used counter too early.

[Jotari]

ehehehe the number of times I up+tilt with ganondorf and they used counter too early.

If they have a chance to use counter on Ganon's Up Tilt then you really shouldn't be up tilting.

[HK Motendra]

As one who has been a pretty good counterer (at least in my opinion, when going up against relatives. I wasn't into the competitive scene) since the melee days, its really an instinctual move that you just gotta know when to use, when you have the time to do it. There are times where I felt that I could have gotten it, but just barely didn't in time. So if there's tip you want to consider, its that counter isn't a substitute for shielding. I had to learn that the hard way many times over, cause I was too stubborn to ever guard, unless its to dodge.

That being said, its a great boon for when you're in the air

[Chloe Neo]

Well I'm never going to use counter ever again, seeing as there aren't many good points about it.

[HK Motendra]

Nah, don't think like that. The move's really just a double edged sword. Ya know, high risk, high reward and all that. I could go on an on with how rewarding it is to get one, and how it downright saved my ass many times. Balance is key

[Elieson]

Fairly often when I play as Lucario or Mac, i use counter under 5 times, if that. It's more tactical to use it later in the match, when the opponent has gotten used to you not using it. When you whip out a counter say, while falling, it tends to catch opponents off guard. though Lucario's counter is just so bad

[Chloe Neo]

So there's good and bad points, well it may be worth using then.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Rule of thumb:

Do not spam counter.

Seriously, people, stop doing that. Stop it right now. Or Big Gay Pink Yoshi will come for you and punish you. I fight far too many people in FG who spam the hell out of counter.

[Chloe Neo]

People actually spam counter, seriously ?

[Loki Laufeyson]

People actually spam counter, seriously ?

Lucina mains....

[Chloe Neo]

Yes, I do main Lucina but I rarely use her counter.

[Sunwoo]

I only "spam" counter if my opponent makes it easy to do so. If I'm having difficulty getting a hit in because I'm being barraged by attacks, a nicely timed counter can give me some breathing room. Usually the smarter players will learn to grab or just not be so aggressive, so I have to switch up MY tactics. But some players just keep on rushing down on me, and if they give me the chance to do so I'll use counter as much as I can

[Chloe Neo]

Yep so when using counter grab your opponent.

[Ema Skye]

I only "spam" counter if my opponent makes it easy to do so.

You spam Vision instead. :P

[Kiseki]

You spam Vision instead. :P

http://youtu.be/BrKDF_YiVSk

Case in point. This Ganon was also at low percents.

[Jotari]

http://youtu.be/BrKDF_YiVSk

Case in point. This Ganon was also at low percents.

Like I said earlier

If they have a chance to use counter on Ganon's Up Tilt then you really shouldn't be up tilting.

His Up Tilt has been given a buff but it's still one of, if not the, most situational moves in the game.

[Kiseki]

Baiting out Marth/Lucina's Counter is easier than baiting out Shulk's Vision, which I assumed this player was trying to do. I've had more losses from mistimed Counters than Visions.

[Anacybele]

Shulk's Vision annoys me. >.> I really need to figure out how to NOT walk right into it constantly.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Anacybele

[Sunwoo]

Shulk's Vision annoys me. >.> I really need to figure out how to NOT walk right into it constantly.

Git gud

I'm just kidding, of course. But in all seriousness, the key to fighting Shulk (especially if the player likes to spam his vision a lot) is to use grabs a lot instead and to not be aggressive or predictable. I fought a Dr. Mario once who figured out how to get around my visions. He stopped dashing into me repeatedly after I countered him a few times, and he actually started BACKING OFF a lot, feinting a dash so that I would counter and so he could grab me after I already used counter.

[Chloe Neo]

Is shulks vision move a counter then ?

[Randoman]

I thought I'd link to this rather funny Super Smash Bros. for Wii U Japan commercial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3QwcwSZpKs

On a side note, I've got 103 of the 140 Challenges completed in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U (with no hammers used, and I plan on keeping it that way). I wonder if I'll be able to be the first on SF to defeat all 140 Wii U challenges or if Aya/Puff-Puff will beat me to it...

Is shulks vision move a counter then ?

Yep, it is.

And according to Kiseki's video, it looks like it also becomes more powerful the stronger the move it counters. I thought only Marth, Ike, and Lucina had that property with their SSB4 counters. I'm guessing Lucario and Greninja don't for Double Team (in SSB4) and Substitute, right?

[Nova]

Rule of thumb:

Do not spam counter.

Seriously, people, stop doing that. Stop it right now. Or Big Gay Pink Yoshi will come for you and punish you. I fight far too many people in FG who spam the hell out of counter.

I fought one of those just yesterday. It was... a Lucina. xD

I have to admit that I got a little careless and got hit by one or two counters. But all in all, when someone spams a single move, no matter what it is, it isn't that hard to punish his damn ass.

On another note: Can someone with a little more insight tell me what the problem is with Sheik? Yesterday was the second time someone with Sheik on FG totally wrecked me. I'm not sure whether the character is too strong or if the pros just prefer to play as Sheik.

I felt satisfied whenever I managed to even get her down to one stock. What's really strange is that I was much better against her with Palutena than with my better mains (like Kirby or Pikachu).

[Samias]

On another note: Can someone with a little more insight tell me what the problem is with Sheik? Yesterday was the second time someone with Sheik on FG totally wrecked me. I'm not sure whether the character is too strong or if the pros just prefer to play as Sheik.

I felt satisfied whenever I managed to even get her down to one stock. What's really strange is that I was much better against her with Palutena than with my better mains (like Kirby or Pikachu).

Sheik is just really good at racking up %. She is highly mobile, has a bit of zone control in her needles and grenades, and her KO moves are relatively "safe" and oftentimes can put her in a favourable position on a whiff... Bouncing Fish, her down B, is just so damn good even after a nerf. Before Diddy skyrocketed into use by high end players, Sheik was considered the strongest character in the game alongside Rosalina & Luma. She's still one of the strongest even after her knockback ratios became worse on her best KO moves. That said, her options for KOs are still a bit limited even if they don't leave her as open as a Smash attack. For new players, I think Sheik is a bit daunting and always has been by virtue of her speed and awkward side and nonexistent down B (as most Sheik mains were not comfortable switching to Zelda, and the transform in Brawl just took too long), but this variation definitely feels easier than her last two incarnations to use since her specials were massively upgraded to enhance her depth.

I don't have any insight into how the matchups are, but Sheik is currently rated as being above the curve by most pros.

[Florete]

Pre-nerf, I recall hearing that Japanese players considered Sheik the best character in the game, though she's still top 5 now. The thing I notice most about Sheik is that she seems good at racking up damage, but has a difficult time getting the kill.