SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Tryhard]

I'm personally glad Keldeo is not in the game. I never liked it or Pokemon.

alternatively:

I'm personally glad Ghirahim is not in the game. I never liked him or Skyward Sword.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Tryhard

[Jotari]

I just want to throw out there that they didn't need to give 12 specials to every character.It is totally awesome that they have but it is more work for them and none of us would have missed them had they not been included in the first place.

[Florete]

I'm personally glad Ghirahim is not in the game. I never liked him or Zelda.

I sure as hell hope Ghirahim doesn't get in. Since Chrom has been de-confirmed, he's now at the top of my list of characters I absolutely don't want in (that actually seem plausible).

Skull Kid was also my frontrunner for a Zelda newcomer, but now that he's gone, Impa is pretty much the only choice if we get a Zelda newcomer.

[Ninian]

Well, to rain on everyone's parade, no amount of debating Kid Icarus' importance will change anything in Super Smash Bros. Deal with it.

[Jave]

I actually had Midna as my Zelda newcomer, but that's been out of the question for a while. Then Tingle got deconfirmed. Now I'm hoping for Tetra.

Yeah, I don't like Griharim either. Out of all the plausible Zelda characters he's the one I least want.

[Florete]

Well, to rain on everyone's parade, no amount of debating Kid Icarus' importance will change anything in Super Smash Bros. Deal with it.

Yeah, I was totally trying to change something in Smash Bros.

How about instead of trying to be clever (and failing), you realize that we were not complaining, merely observing?

[Jotari]

No one was really saying Pit's focus was a bad thing and he shouldn't have it. We're merely examining why he has as much focus as he does.

[BANRYU]

Is no one else in the crowd that thinks we don't NEED any more Zelda newcomers...? .3. Not that I'd mind one, but....

nope, i don't think that (please don't make dumb assumptions about me). not saying being lazy is unjustifiable, in fact i'd say it's necessary in certain cases (especially considering they feel the need to pack in so many other features into the game); disappointed that it had to happen in favor of one of my favorite franchises though.

i don't need to be grateful for a commercial product that i have to pay for.

I am making no judgment calls on you as a person, only what I'm told by the fact that you think that. In any case, I'm glad you agree that being 'lazy' (though I still think that's a poor word choice, 'efficient' might be a better one) can be justifiable in instances like this.

And I like Megaman too, but I sort of understand why they did that despite. Aside from the fact that Megaman is a third-party, possibly guest-only franchise (like we're assuming Snake was), I could also justify the decision by making the argument that nothing else would be particularly iconic for the Megaman series. As far as environments go in the Megaman classic series, they're very diverse, sure, but I don't know that a lot of them are very immediately-recognizable for being in the series the way Wily's fortress is. Maybe I'm wrong, but I question if there is a single other environment in the Classic series that could be immediately recognizable as Megaman. So, (assuming Wily's castle is the only iconic image, and I'm not saying it is) should they have taken the time to model a different Wily Castle just for the 3DS stage? That'd be a waste of time and resources for not much of a change in impact, IMO-- all the Wily castles have the big'ol'skull and not a lot of other significant variation in appearance.

So yeah, it makes sense to me.

I just want to throw out there that they didn't need to give 12 specials to every character.It is totally awesome that they have but it is more work for them and none of us would have missed them had they not been included in the first place.

I know this isn't what you're saying, but I'll point out anyway that they are NOT doing with every character what they're doing with the Miis and Palutena. Giving a character completely different attacks is worlds apart from modifying the properties of pre-existing attacks, which is what the customization appears to be, for the most part.

That aside, it's an extra fun little feature that they WANTED to include. I'd disagree that people would have missed it, and I appreciate that they DID add that for the depth of gameplay it could add to casual matches. I don't really see what the problem with this is; they could have focused on other features, I guess? Still, isn't customization one of the more-requested/wanted features for Smash Bros by fans? I dunno, but I got the impression that it was.

Edited July 24, 2014 by BANRYU

[Florete]

Is no one else in the crowd that thinks we don't NEED any more Zelda newcomers...? .3. Not that I'd mind one, but....

By all means, I don't think we need one at all, I just think one is likely.

[Skynstein]

It's kinda sad that F-Zero has gazillions of characters yet only Captain Falcon gets any recognition.

[solrocknroll]

Is no one else in the crowd that thinks we don't NEED any more Zelda newcomers...? .3. Not that I'd mind one, but....

The only one I think we "needed" was Skull Kid, and we know how that turned out.

[Jotari]

Is no one else in the crowd that thinks we don't NEED any more Zelda newcomers...? .3. Not that I'd mind one, but....

I am making no judgment calls on you as a person, only what I'm told by the fact that you think that. In any case, I'm glad you agree that being 'lazy' (though I still think that's a poor word choice, 'efficient' might be a better one) can be justifiable in instances like this.

And I like Megaman too, but I sort of understand why they did that despite. Aside from the fact that Megaman is a third-party, possibly guest-only franchise (like we're assuming Snake was), I could also justify the decision by making the argument that nothing else would be particularly iconic for the Megaman series. As far as environments go in the Megaman classic series, they're very diverse, sure, but I don't know that a lot of them are very immediately-recognizable for being in the series the way Wily's fortress is. Maybe I'm wrong, but I question if there is a single other environment in the Classic series that could be immediately recognizable as Megaman. So, (assuming Wily's castle is the only iconic image, and I'm not saying it is) should they have taken the time to model a different Wily Castle just for the 3DS stage? That'd be a waste of time and resources for not much of a change in impact, IMO-- all the Wily castles have the big'ol'skull and not a lot of other significant variation in appearance.

So yeah, it makes sense to me.

I know this isn't what you're saying, but I'll point out anyway that they are NOT doing with every character what they're doing with the Miis and Palutena. Giving a character completely different attacks is worlds apart from modifying the properties of pre-existing attacks, which is what the customization appears to be, for the most part.

That aside, it's an extra fun little feature that they WANTED to include. I'd disagree that people would have missed it, and I appreciate that they DID add that for the depth of gameplay it could add to casual matches. I don't really see what the problem with this is; they could have focused on other features, I guess? Still, isn't customization one of the more-requested/wanted features for Smash Bros by fans? I dunno, but I got the impression that it was.

I don't know if stages have to be particularly iconic to get in. Poke floats wasn't really iconic. In fact it's not even something from the games. Likewise Rainbow Ride (or Cruise) was just one random level from Super Mario 64 among a dozen others while more iconic Mario levels like Bowser's Castle haven't been seen yet.

I didn't say people would miss it. I said nobody would miss it. If they didn't include the three specials per move then no one would have cared, people might have liked to see customization had they not put it in but I don't think anyone would have been particularly disappointed and wouldn't buy the game because there was no customization. And I know Sakurai has said none (of the revealed) characters would have it to the same extent as Palutena and the Miis but that doesn't mean it's just going to be very small changes. Donkey Kong's tornado punch looks vastly different to his giant punch both visibly and how it would likely be used in combat. Other special moves like the Fire Emblem character's counters or Olimar's whistle will have to have something a bit more creative placed on to them. A variation could just as easily mean Marth's down special will be a defensive move (Shield of Seals please). Regardless of how different the spcial moves are going to be, it's still extra work on their part and it's super cool that they've done it.

[Anacybele]

By all means, I don't think we need one at all, I just think one is likely.

Yeah, this is my thought too.

EDIT: But RFoF, why did you want Skull Kid when you said your reason for not wanting Ghirahim is that he's a one-off villain? Skull Kid is a one-off villain too, and from a much older game, no less. :/

Edited July 24, 2014 by Anacybele

[solrocknroll]

Yeah, this is my thought too.

EDIT: But RFoF, why did you want Skull Kid when you said your reason for not wanting Ghirahim is that he's a one-off villain? Skull Kid is a one-off villain too, and from a much older game, no less. :/

We just like him more. I'd say that's a good reason.

[Jotari]

The only one I think we "needed" was Skull Kid, and we know how that turned out.

Now I don't intend to hurt feelings and personally love Majora's Mask as a game but in my eyes Skull Kid would just be a terrible character to have in Smash Bros. (playable of course, he's great as an Assist Trophy). Zelda currently has seventeen games and the Skull Kid played a major role in exactly one. And he wasn't even the villain. He was just a major NPC. He does some antagonistic things and has some great plot involvement but there's no proper boss battle, he is being manipulated by the true villain, get's all his powers from the true villain and on top of all htat the powers are very vaguely defined and don't seem appropriate for Smash. Majora's Mask is a great game and is beloved among Zelda fans but it isn't particularly noteable or iconic within the Zelda franchise itself. Most of it's additions gameplay wise have not been reused and the biggest thing Zelda actually got from it is Tingle (who consequently I would consider a better candidate for Smash than Skull Kid). As an example look at all we know of Hyrule Warriors so far, how much Majora's Mask features is there? The moon falling effect and that's it as far as I can recall while compared to the other games it seems to be merging the cannon of Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess with some major pulls from Skyward Sword. Skull Kid is a cool guy but there are much better options from reccuring villains, like Twinrova and Vaati and also more recent villains like Ghirahim or even Yuga who I wouldn't love but I'd still rather over Skull Kid. And also non villains like Impa or Tetra who have made a much bigger impact on the series than Skull Kid likely will ever have.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Jotari

[Anacybele]

I agree with pretty much everything Jotari said. Villains like Ghirahim and Vaati would be easier to make a moveset for too. Heck, I'd say Skyward Sword already MADE Ghirahim a full moveset with his teleporting, that projectile attack, and sword-fighting abilities. And then his Final Smash could be slicing everyone into oblivion in his sword form.

As for Vaati, wind mage powers, yo. He's got all kinds of attacks as shown in The Minish Cap. And his eyeball bat form for Final Smash.

Vaati is also the second most recurring villain in the series after G-dorf, so he's kinda notable.

[Florete]

Yeah, this is my thought too.

EDIT: But RFoF, why did you want Skull Kid when you said your reason for not wanting Ghirahim is that he's a one-off villain? Skull Kid is a one-off villain too, and from a much older game, no less. :/

A few reasons:

1. Skull Kid is actually an interesting and developed character.

2. While Skull Kid was only a villain once, skull kids first appeared in OoT, so Skull Kid as playable would represent that era of Zelda as a whole. (It's also worth noting that that is a much more popular and important era for Zelda than wherever Skyward Sword is)

3. It could tie into a Majora's Mask 3D and, going off the above, OoT 3D already exists. In a way, Skull Kid(s) is already in 3 games, and with MM 3D would be in 4, despite that two would technically be remakes.

At the same time, though, I'm not surprised he didn't make it in, nor am I particularly sad since it's true that he's pretty minor for the franchise overall.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire

[Anacybele]

Eh, whatever floats your boat, I guess. I personally found Skull Kid to be boring as all hell, and Ghirahim to be an amazing villain, but opinions.

[Carter]

I don't think the Zelda series needs more reps, I just think Zelda and Ganondorf need to be buffed.

In tier lists, they were ranked as the two worst characters in the game. Now, as a Zelda main, I really don't believe that, but apparently when it comes to analyzing moves and agility and all that, I guess (maybe) that's how those two would rank.

But I've heard mixed feelings about Zelda during the Best Buy Smash Fest. Her up-tilt is weaker, now for combos, and she's (apparently) been nerfed in some areas (I think PKL told me this many many pages back?). It looks like Phantom Slash is too slow to be protecting Zelda and actually hurts her...? And that charging would take extremely long. But on the bright side, she did receive a buffed Din's Fire, as well as faster running speed and stronger Nayru's Love.

I certainly hope Farore's Wind is fixed. You could never move for like the first 2 seconds. Project M did a great job of fixing that, and I hope Sakurai and the Smash Team can help fix that too.

[Jave]

Yeah, this is my thought too.

EDIT: But RFoF, why did you want Skull Kid when you said your reason for not wanting Ghirahim is that he's a one-off villain? Skull Kid is a one-off villain too, and from a much older game, no less. :/

Skull Kid isn't a one-off villain. He was in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess too.

[Anacybele]

Skull Kid isn't a one-off villain. He was in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess too.

But he wasn't the villain in either of those games.

[BANRYU]

Let's not forget that a Skull Kid (albeit with a different design) was in Twilight Princess as well. (Not that I thought he should have been in, just throwing that out there.)

By all means, I don't think we need one at all, I just think one is likely.

Respectfully, I have a hard time seeing why any Zelda newcomers are likely. I would agree with Impa as a solid choice if not for the likelihood that she'd play a lot like Sheik (but then again, I suppose it'd be just fine if she were a clone), so Ghirahim seems like the most probable addition to me, given his recency plus his potential for unique and interesting moves-- however, I also think he'd be a shortsighted choice, a lot like Vaati and Midna (though a lot of people would disagree with me on them too, to which I say *shrug*).

It's kinda sad that F-Zero has gazillions of characters yet only Captain Falcon gets any recognition.

I agree, but at the same time, I imagine it has something to do with all of the characters other than Captain Falcon having roughly equal significance-- ergo, putting one in could be unfair to other characters from the series. Then again, I know just about jack-all about F-Zero so that could well be complete nonsense.

1) I don't know if stages have to be particularly iconic to get in. Poke floats wasn't really iconic. In fact it's not even something from the games. Likewise Rainbow Ride (or Cruise) was just one random level from Super Mario 64 among a dozen others while more iconic Mario levels like Bowser's Castle haven't been seen yet.

2) I didn't say people would miss it. I said nobody would miss it. If they didn't include the three specials per move then no one would have cared, people might have liked to see customization had they not put it in but I don't think anyone would have been particularly disappointed and wouldn't buy the game because there was no customization.

3) Regardless of how different the spcial moves are going to be, it's still extra work on their part and it's super cool that they've done it.

1) Fair point. Incidentally, I'm grinding my teeth into nubs wanting a Bowser's Castle stage x__X I guess I can settle for the bowser's castle parts of the NSMB stages.

2) I understood what you were saying, I just disagree. They might not have missed it in any degree of specificity, since it wouldn't have existed, but people would have still liked to see it regardless.

3) I agree! I'm very pleased that they're taking the time to implement it, though honestly, I don't think it will even take them THAT much time to implement (based on what we've seen so far, they're basically just toying with the properties of the moves-- regardless of how vastly different they are, they don't need to make a new attack animation or anything, at least so far).

Edited July 24, 2014 by BANRYU

[Anacybele]

And let's not forget that the Skull Kid that people actually wanted in Smash is the Majora's Mask one. Who is an entirely different character from the one in TP.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Anacybele

[Florete]

But he wasn't the villain in either of those games.

If Ghirahim were in more Zelda games (Hyrule Warriors not counting), I wouldn't be as against his potential inclusion. I would still be against it because he's so archetypal and comical, but not as much.

Let's not forget that a Skull Kid (albeit with a different design) was in Twilight Princess as well. (Not that I thought he should have been in, just throwing that out there.)

I actually did forget about that lol.

Respectfully, I have a hard time seeing why any Zelda newcomers are likely. I would agree with Impa as a solid choice if not for the likelihood that she'd play a lot like Sheik (but then again, I suppose it'd be just fine if she were a clone), so Ghirahim seems like the most probable addition to me, given his recency plus his potential for unique and interesting moves-- however, I also think he'd be a shortsighted choice, a lot like Vaati and Midna (though a lot of people would disagree with me on them too, to which I say *shrug*).

I guess I'm just a believer in the trophy hint...thing from the Smash direct. Even though the trophies were probably randomly picked.

And let's not forget that the Skull Kid that people actually wanted in Smash is the Majora's Mask one. Who is an entirely different character from the one in TP.

And let's not forget that nearly every Zelda game features a different Link from the previous ones, yet our Link(s) is still meant to represent them all.

[Jave]

But he wasn't the villain in either of those games.

He was A villain in OoT and TP. And my point was to show that he was in more than one game.

And let's not forget that the Skull Kid that people actually wanted in Smash is the Majora's Mask one. Who is an entirely different character from the one in TP.

Actually, it's implied that the Skull Kid in all three games is the same character. It's not proven, but them being separate characters hasn't been confirmed either.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Jave