Drafters Mafia Game Thread - GAME OVER

[Elieson]

It's a poorly established read. A gut scumread without evidence is a crappy read that doesn't mean much. I'm saying I want to determine a logical read on her.

And I said voted, not voting. Read my words man

[Sunwoo]

Gonna need a sub. First person to contact a mod gets it.

[BBM]

@Elie- Okay, I misread about the voting/voted thing. However, once again, you're saying that you want to establish more of a read on her, but I don't see much of an effort going towards actually doing so. There's 266, but that was before you said you wanted to establish more on her.

[Paperblade]

Gonna need a sub. First person to contact a mod gets it.

typical Rapier game

[Elieson]

#1 (#7)

• RVS, nothing shocking

#2 (#97)

• Votes me for what I can gather is a "Get Srs Bro" prod, then comments that she thinks the cases going on are pretty shitty (Has even less overall thoughts than I did, at double the postcount)

○○ Attention to: Elieson

#3 (#139)

• IMO Good post covering her thoughts on me (as changing from her last post),

• Votes Breezy because of a poorly logic'd Vote & Unvote on Prims

• Doesn't like kirsche because kirsche was sheeping, and doesn't like Shinori because she herself is sheeping

○○ Attention to: Elieson, kirsche, Marth, Shinori

#4 (#157

• Accuses Breezy of (moreorless) tunnelvision and sheeping

○○ Attention to: Breezy

#5 (#210)

• Claims to not care on D1

• Defends her vote on Breezy

○○ Attention to: Breezy

#6 (#211)

• Doesn't interested in JB and Marth, and once again defends her Breezy vote

○○ Attention to: JB, Marth, Breezy

#7 (#268)

• Clarifies her suspicion on Kirsche from forever ago, and claims IRL Moods

○○ Attention to: Elieson (Regarding Kirsche)

Enter Day 2

#8 (#298)

Activate Serious Modo Post (as expected)

•Disputes her "Death tunnelling Breezy" when more than half of her D1 posts have discussed and reinforced Breezy vote.

•Discusses why Prims was shot (surprising, I'm not sure what to make of this discussion point tbh, because it doesn't seem like a necessary to discuss topic)

•Doesn't like Shinori (for Obv reasons at the time)

•Defends her vote on Elieson, from Bearclaws

•Votes Kirsche because he's tunnelvoting me (for icky logic) and shitty votes Marth (IMO anyway)

•Maintains Breezy suspicion

○○ Attention to: Breezy, Bear, Shinori, Kirsche, Elieson

#9 (#305)

•Asks Breezy about Results. Not a stretch of a post here, and useful in its entirety

○○ Attention to: Breezy

#10 (#329)

•Discusses Meta and argues her lack of interest on D1 Marth Lynch

○○ Attention to: Meta voters overall (Kirsche, for one)

#11 (#334)

•Votals correction. Not gonna even care about this, so moving on to

#12 (#335)

•Disliked Shinori (Logical at the time) and kirsche (because back-and-forth confusingness).

•Mentions IRL difficulties

○○ Attention to: Shinori, kirsche, and kind of Breezy

#13 (#355)

•Restates her kirsche vote/suspicion (a welcome restatement)

•Restates her suspicion over Breezy

○○ Attention to, kirsche and breezy

#14 (#419)

•Takes in Shinori's claim

•Votes Marth because claimed Alignment Scan

•Still suspects breezy/kirsche

•Comments on Elieson, bear and terra, and how that generally most of her assessments on players not mentioned above are neutral/nullreads

○○ Attention to, Shinori->Marth, kirsche, breezy, Elieson, Terraderp, Bearclaws

---

ISO Analysis of scorri shows:

• Generally good overall input, but a hell of a lot of talk regarding breezy at every turn. Much of it is situational from what I have lined up and reread.

• Still various nullreads, almost at the end of D2

• High amount of repitition regarding suspicions

• While D1 mostly mentioned tunnelvision on Breezy, her D2 doesn't really push much aside from kirsche. In fact, pretty much every post she made that had any meat of content in them mentioned kirsche being scummy in a new or repeated way.

Overall, I really don't think she's scummy based on what she's done I guess, and it took a big analysis and ISO to determine that. She still seems to be receiving an awful small amount of attention, but I guess aside from her tunneling her cases, she isn't doing that much scummy. I guess it was gut!scumread because she wasn't included in votals and I know she's capable of posting with the big leagues every time

[Strege]

##Unvote (Shinori) This is just kind of frustrating. I'll vote Marth at the end of phase but I don't want to put him too close to hammer right now in case of shenanigans.

It's less that he's actually produced content, but more that he's only doing it now when he came under fire. Whilst that's not a "I am scum" sign, it's interesting to see how he's making a little more effort under pressure.

You literally called him defensive for that -> "Marth, it's interesting how you've suddenly found a plethora of points against me when you come under fire, defensive much?" That is presented as material for a read, at least regarding defensiveness, and defensiveness and lack of content are the reasons you voted him. Criticizing the speed at which he produced his content is arbitrarily judged (and in my opinion weak, but that's not scummy). Furthermore, when has Marth not been under fire? Sometime mid-D1 if I recall correctly. You've set up what looks like an impossible set of expectations.

If Marth were town in this situation, what should he have done in terms of producing reads? Also, do you find what he actually did scummy or not (because it still isn't clear)? If you do, why? The fact that we have a cop guilty on Marth doesn't make your old position less suspicious to me, nor does Marth turning on you with weak material and then more or less slapfighting. This reads like bussing to me.

Unrelated to all that jazz, it's not really clear where your scumreads are at and would appreciate even a somewhat ordered list of names.

F.o.S.: Shin

I'll get to the Elie/kirsche/BBM/whoever walls as soon as I can. IRL is getting in the way of my activity and I apologize.

[Shinori]

##Unvote:

Requesting to be the hammer because of something in my role that I'd prefer not to reveal.

[CT075]

The day was going smoothly, well, except people were at each other's throats. But otherwise, everything was great until SUDDEN MODKILL LIGHTNING STRUCK DOWN STREGE

Strege has been modkilled! He wa- wait, he's still alive. MIRACLE SURVIVOR STREGE

False alarm people, never miiiiiind...

Edited July 17, 2013 by CT075

[Shin]

Marth, I know you want a Shin lynch, I really do .

You literally called him defensive for that -> "Marth, it's interesting how you've suddenly found a plethora of points against me when you come under fire, defensive much?" That is presented as material for a read, at least regarding defensiveness, and defensiveness and lack of content are the reasons you voted him. Criticizing the speed at which he produced his content is arbitrarily judged (and in my opinion weak, but that's not scummy). Furthermore, when has Marth not been under fire? Sometime mid-D1 if I recall correctly. You've set up what looks like an impossible set of expectations.

If Marth were town in this situation, what should he have done in terms of producing reads? Also, do you find what he actually did scummy or not (because it still isn't clear)? If you do, why? The fact that we have a cop guilty on Marth doesn't make your old position less suspicious to me, nor does Marth turning on you with weak material and then more or less slapfighting. This reads like bussing to me.

Unrelated to all that jazz, it's not really clear where your scumreads are at and would appreciate even a somewhat ordered list of names.

I never said the speed was scummy, I said it was interesting that he's only found material on me when he's facing a lynch, and hasn't even mentioned me once before yesterday. Still, I can appreciate why one might consider it bussing, but if it it were I'd be taking a long 3 day ride :P.

If you want a summary of my reads, here it is;

Marth - Defensive and unproductive day 1. Makes a semi-decent list post day 2 and generally does a little more but then it devolves into the "you look worse than me thing". My JB vote was based on those early posts, but considering that he did nothing productive for the entirety of day 1, there was no other content for me to reconsider him by.

JB - Mentioned in Marth's, his day 1 was pretty bad, all of it harping on a "joke" which nobody really got. I didn't think JB was so unfunny, so I'm still not sure what to think of it.

Rapier - Not quite as strong as the reads above, mostly because lolRapier, but there are a few things that I find weird. He likes "giving people a chance" to prove themselves. He's always been scum when I've seen him do that, and his reasons for voting are pretty weak (I expected better). I also found his responses to mine pretty laughable. When you're left with the "yeah but I'm better than you" line, you know you're grasping for straws. Still, I'll wait for the sub to come in before committing to anything.

Eli - A few contradictions, as pointed by kirsche and by looking through the ISO. However, other than that and the weird reaction test^TM, he's not really coming across as super strong. There's something about him that seems off too, but that's so vague and silly I wouldn't use it to go by anything.

Da Bear - A general lack of content, comically asking Eli where the vig went. His day 1 was pretty empty and he went after Breezy pretty heavily for sheeping, but since then I can't really find anything that incriminates him too badly.

[Bluedoom]

I reject all accusations at me.

Shinori's probably lyncher. Calling it now.

[Bluedoom]

Btw I'm serious about my statement because Shinori hasn't done anything other than tunnel me.

And if you were cop you would've outed that result at the beginning of D2. Really.

[Bluedoom]

Although if you're srsly cop then gg we've just found out there's a tailor. >_>

[Shinori]

Btw I'm serious about my statement because Shinori hasn't done anything other than tunnel me.

And if you were cop you would've outed that result at the beginning of D2. Really.

Unless I wanted to see if I could get you lynched without having to actually claim.

I just ended up not really being around to make it a worthwhile case.

[Zkirsche]

##Unvote ##Vote: Bluedoom

@Kirsche- wrt the first paragraph, it's not about Breezy's alignment, it's about your's. Breezy is town, but confirming his role doesn't make you town.

It doesn't make me scum either, but people were pressuring me about me being sure about Breezy's role and saying it isn't convincing them that Breezy is town so I presented that bit of logic to convince people to believe me.

[Zkirsche]

Hang on posted too early.

@Scorri: Do you think that if Breezy is tracker he would be scum? If not then can you respond to the end of my #414 regarding Breezy. It would also be nice if you addressed my response to your post, but you sort of handwaved it saying "I don't find a reason to unvote".

@Shin: Are you really going to find someone suspicious for missing a joke? JB does need to post more however.

@Elie: Just one thing I forgot to add to my wall. Regarding your vote post, "refusing to acknowledge the reasoning behind my actions" is surely just "Refusing to believe the reasoning behind my actions" which is basically "Refusing to believe me"? I'm pretty sure that's an OMGUS.

[Shin]

@Shin: Are you really going to find someone suspicious for missing a joke? JB does need to post more however.

It's more the fact he posted something that looked ultra serious RVS and then later tried to pass it off as a joke. He made quite an effort trying to convince everyone it was which looked kinda bad. Yeah, I'm still waiting on more content from him, he's leaning scum for me, but I wouldn't vote him over Marth.

[Jaybee]

@JB- I understand why experienced players would see the futility of pursuing a case on me at that point, but why wouldn't newbscum do it? Why only newbtown? If the answer is that the newbscum's buddies would warn them against it, I don't really think that it's a very good reason, because all four of his posts about me D1 were within the span of twenty minutes, and they might not have been there to tell him to stop talking about it.

i didn't notice the timestamps

granted

Btw I'm serious about my statement because Shinori hasn't done anything other than tunnel me.

And if you were cop you would've outed that result at the beginning of D2. Really.

no, shinori's logic makes sense so far. aside from the part where he actually could have posted more (haha hypocrite me), why out himself as alignment cop immediately when he could potentially get a second scum or clear more people? instant claiming alignment cop at the beginning of the phase basically neuters 90% of all discussion and almost completely wastes a day.

i would still want shinori to tell us how giving him the hammer applies to his role. that's the only part that sounds lyncher-like.

It's more the fact he posted something that looked ultra serious RVS and then later tried to pass it off as a joke. He made quite an effort trying to convince everyone it was which looked kinda bad. Yeah, I'm still waiting on more content from him, he's leaning scum for me, but I wouldn't vote him over Marth.

i never said it was a joke what are you talking about

i said i didn't understand that prims' post was a joke

##Unvote

also apologies for being gone, now isn't really a good time

time to reread some people

[Elieson]

I reject all accusations at me.

Shinori's probably lyncher. Calling it now.

Lol that came out of nowhere. Ridiculous defense.

Argh I can't quote your other post from my phone arggggg but tailor, ok. Unfortunately at this point, if a tailor exists, we won't have any way of knowing until tomorrow anyway (based on your flip).

Where'd you get the idea of lyncher though? That is a strange rebuttal to an accusation from someone claiming align cop.

Hang on posted too early.

@Scorri: Do you think that if Breezy is tracker he would be scum? If not then can you respond to the end of my #414 regarding Breezy. It would also be nice if you addressed my response to your post, but you sort of handwaved it saying "I don't find a reason to unvote".

@Shin: Are you really going to find someone suspicious for missing a joke? JB does need to post more however.

@Elie: Just one thing I forgot to add to my wall. Regarding your vote post, "refusing to acknowledge the reasoning behind my actions" is surely just "Refusing to believe the reasoning behind my actions" which is basically "Refusing to believe me"? I'm pretty sure that's an OMGUS.

Acknowledge =\= Believe. It's more like Acknowledge = Consider. You refusing to acknowledge the reasoning behind my actions implies tha you don't seem to even consider why I did what I did; you don't seem to care about my motivation. That's what I meant by it

[Bluedoom]

@Eli: He's been on my case forever, his play doesn't even strike as pro-town, and he wants to be the one who hammers me for role reasons.

Wouldn't the last part strike as odd then?

[Bluedoom]

that and his N0 target is easily fakeable as well

[Elieson]

He's been on your case all of d2 though. Unless I forgot his D1 cases on you. Lemme ISO him.

Srsly that Lyncher thing just threw me off.

[Elieson]

Although why would Aligncop out himself this early for 1 scum? With a flipped doc, he's pretty much sacrificing himself

[Bluedoom]

Well if I were align cop I'd out the guilty scan immediately regardless

[Elieson]

You obviously can't read considering that's what I said I would do.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Darros

Still woulda preferred Marth lynch.

Oops I forgot he sorta case'd you d1. Still if he was lyncher and wanted you dead d1, he could have pressd a lot harder and "not" removed his vote from you

Ok I'm not confused anymore

[Elieson]

Well if I were align cop I'd out the guilty scan immediately regardless[/quote

That's dumb because protection is gone, and you could potentially have nabbed 2 scum without claiming (n1/2 scans).

Unless you took the Doc power. WHICH YOU SHOULD BE CLAIMING LIKE HOURS AGO TO "PROTECT THE ALIGNMENT COP"