Alastor15243 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Chrom x Sumia optimizes itself. It's so idiot proof and has so many benefits. It reminds me of Lewyn x Fury. So easy yet so strong. Henry is also up there with Stahl and Virion for Yarne. Where Stahl and Yarne give him Hit +20, Henry gives him Hex. Hex is 5 less hit than Hit +20 but the lead benefits from it as well. Anathema is 10 less hit, but is a great AoE debuff. Hex berserker also forces Yarne to marry a melee fighter, which slightly limits his options, though when using braves, not by too much, just no bow users (and obviously no mages, but that's kind of a given)... Edited October 26, 2014 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgerkong Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Maribelle!Lucina - Dark Flier She has an higher Magic versality than her other counterparts and Dark Flier offers high MOV+hig magical power itself. The skills she'll have are: Galeforce, Dual support+, Dual strike+, Dual Guard +, Aether. One of them will be replaces with LB, of course. Maribelle!Brady Galeforce, LB, RK, Dual guard +(even if leveling up GK is a pain), Luna or Aggressor (both until I get LB) Sthal!Severa - Hero as final class vantage, galeforce, sol, swordfaire, Astra (then I will have to think what to drop for LB) Frederick!Yarne Frederick will provide him probably dual support+, Pavise, Aegis, counter (will be replaced with LB) and Luna Henry!Gerome - berserker Cherce will pass down Dual Support +, LB Kellam!Inigo (nooot really sure about this one) Olivia passes down Galeforce, sol, pavise, vantage, swordfaire (to be replaced with LB) Ricken!Laurent Miriel passes down Dual Support +, Tomefaire, aggressor, Dual Guard + and a filler (Maybe defender?) until I get LB Gaius!Cynthia Gaius passes down Sol, GF, Astra, LB, dual support + Donnel!Kjelle Sol, Aegis, Pavise, Galeforce, Limit Breaker (Armsthrift is good but... when I will attempt hardest maps I will probably ignore it) Gregor!Nah (?) Not really sure as I said Counter from Gregor, Swordbreaker, Lancebreaker, LB, Renewal (Gregor passes down the trobadour line) Noire was a big question point, now I'm considering to pass here Gaius. But on the other side I don't like using her so much... Owain is kinda 'meh' in the middle. I was considering Ricken but he passed to Miriel so here I'm just wondering what to do. Libra maybe? Lon'qu? The problem with posting builds is that, without posting how they're being paired up (end class, who their pair up partner is, etc.), it's very hard to recommend a build that works universally. And I'm still confused here, is this for Apotheosis or for main game? Sol seems to be everywhere on your team when it's very lacklustre for Apotheosis, but if you're grinding for all these skills you'll probably stomp the main game enemies anyways, regardless of skills. Some things to point out here, assuming you're sticking with your listed parents: Maribelle!Lucina - Dark Flier is a great class since Maribelle grants her a solid +Mag mod, but DSp+ & DG+ are both pretty poor options for her. DSp+ is fine if you REALLY need to exceed a certain hit threshold, but is otherwise just filler, and DG+ is unreliable as ever. Again, without a pair up partner in mind, Luna & LB are better options to replace DSp+ & DG+. Look for a Sage or other magical partner here (Laurent, Owain, etc.) Chrom!Brady - Galeforce, Luna, Aggressor, Tomefaire. Nothing more needs to be said. Sage Brady too stronk, and definitely his optimal final class unless you're really looking to go 100% DS. Stahl!Severa - Hero is perfectly usable for endgame class. Luna is definitely preferable over Sol for Apotheosis, given how little Sol is going to be doing with the enemies' Dragonskin. Vantage isn't the greatest without Vengeance and should be the skill to replace with LB. Fred!Yarne - Umm, Fred doesn't give Yarne DSp+. You also didn't list an end class. As Czar has mentioned countless times, Yarne is definitely best as a dedicated support character, like Axefaire Berserker or something along those lines. PavGis isn't reliable even with maxed stats, so it's hard to recommend. Henry!Gerome - Like Yarne, best used as a hard physical support. Axefaire Berserker or Hero with DSp+ from Cherche, Aggressor, and Hex/Anathema from Henry depending on his partner (Hex if fighting from 1 range, Anathema if fighting from 2+). Kellam!Inigo - Galeforce & Luna is such a strong combination, there's no reason not to run it. Pavise is unreliable and even more lacklustre without Aegis, and Vantage is still pretty mediocre without Vengeance. Aggressor & -faire is definitely preferable depending on your end class. Ricken!Laurent - Magical dedicated support. Likely the best partner for Lucina out of the ones listed. DSp+ from Miriel, Tomefaire, Aggressor, and Anathema or Hit+20 are probably your best options, since Lucina will likely perpetually be in front. Gaius!Cynthia - Not optimal, but Cynthia's unscrewable anyways (like Brady). Neutral Str & Mag mods mean it's up to your pairings if you want her to go physical or magical (you don't have an end class listed). Again, don't know about your love of Sol, Luna is preferable here, and DSp+ should definitely be replaced with LB. Donnel!Kjelle - You seem to REALLY love PavGis, and if that's the case and you desperately want to run it, then go General & ditch Galeforce. However, if you're going Donnel!Kjelle, you're really doing it for Galeforce, since Kjelle always has PavGis. It's hard not to recommend a generic Galeforce build (Galeforce/Luna/Astra/-faire), which is probably better. Gregor!Nah - Gregor passes Troubadour for DSp+, and some nice physical -faires (Axefaire from inheritance, Myrm line for Swordfaire), so she'd probably be best as a hard physical support as Assassin/Hero with -faire/DSp+/filler. Libra!Owain is a solid option for Vengeance & Dark Mage line. Vaike!Noire is possible here for a physical Galepair (Assassin access, Axefaire), while Virion!Noire gives her Tomefaire but not much else. I have no clue where your Avatar OR Morgan are. They definitely need to be considered for your pairings to work, considering how amazing Morgan is by default. Are you planning on marrying 2nd gen? If not, one of your 2nd gens will be unmarried and can be left out of Apotheosis (this is Gerome in my current run, it can be Noire for you if you dislike her). Edited October 26, 2014 by burgerkong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 I know for sure I would make Brady a sage ,so he could be a healer. I'm also planning to do Ricken x Lissa, so that gives an option for owain to heal too. Who else? or should I just get a few staff and rally bots from a dlc or spot pass? Owain already has staff access without Ricken. For other units you might want to look into Lissa, Maribelle, Miriel, Sumia, Cordelia, Lucina, Cynthia, Severa, and either Avatar or Morgan. Also, if I switch Henry to Cynthia I will probably pair Gaius with Tharja, Cherce with Vaike and Nah'd still be fatherless (WIth Kellam being busy with Inigo). Would be Gerome be a good father for the girl? I mean, she's a manakete-defensive character, he could offer counter, he passes +5 def and +4 str (and if I'm not wrong dragonstones are based on strenght) which isn't too bad as well. Bolded: ? If Gregor's still floating around, you could give him to Gerome to free up Henry for Nah. Keep in mind when making your skillsets that your units will pretty much always be paired and certain skills do nothing in the back. For instance, four out of five of that Yarne's skills will have no effect when he's in the back (which he'll always want to be, being a hard support and all...), assuming you meant DG+ and not DSp+. And I'm still confused here, is this for Apotheosis or for main game? Lunatic Plus. I'm gonna go with ingame as that team fits it much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Hex berserker also forces Yarne to marry a melee fighter, which slightly limits his options, though when using braves, not by too much, just no bow users (and obviously no mages, but that's kind of a given)... Yarne is always physical. Unless you pick a class with Neutral bonuses such as Bow Knight and Hero odds are he is marrying a physical girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Yarne is always physical. Unless you pick a class with Neutral bonuses such as Bow Knight and Hero odds are he is marrying a physical girl. That's what I said. But since Hex only works on melee, it means that his wife can't be a sniper or bow user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Kind of planned team for Apo. +Str -Def MaMU Berserker (AF/Hit+20/Agg/LB/?) marries Lon'qu!Severa Wyvern Lord (LF/Vengeance/GF/LB/?) This reaches 75 Speed with Severa leading? ~ Maribelle!Lucina Sage (GF/TF/DStr+/LB/Luna) marries Ricken!Laurent Sage (TF/Agg/LB/?/?) ~ Chrom!Brady Sage (TF/GF/Agg/Luna/LB) marries Gaius!Noire Dark Flier (GF/Luna/LB/?/?) ~ Libra!Owain Sage (TF/GF/Agg/LB/Vengeance?) marries Henry!Cynthia Dark Flier or Sage? (GF/TF/LB/Luna/Anathema?) ~ Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan Wyvern Lord? (LF/GF/LB/Luna?/?) marries Virion!Yarne Berserker (AF/Hit+20/LB/Agg/?) ~ Frederick!Inigo Assassin (SF/Agg/Luna/GF/LB) marries Vaike!Nah Hero (AF/LB/?/?/?) ~ Donnel!Kjelle Hero (SF/Luna/LB/GF/?) marries Stahl!Gerome Warrior (BF/Agg/LB/Hit+20?/?) ~ The formatting will be horrible and for this I apologise because 3DS internet browser is abysmal. The question marks are what I'm unsure on. Edited October 26, 2014 by Bloo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Well, first off, obviously the last skill you want to give your MaMU is Axefaire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 AF is Axefaire. GF - Galeforce TF - Tomefaire LF - Lancefaire SF - Swordfaire Agg - Aggressor LB - Limit Breaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 AF is Axefaire. GF - Galeforce TF - Tomefaire LF - Lancefaire SF - Swordfaire Agg - Aggressor LB - Limit Breaker Oh. Well then, probably AS+2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBlueBlur Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 I usually put All Stats+2 on people who don't have access to good offensive skills. Also, I highly recommend you replace Vengeance with better activation skills, assuming those Vengeance users have access to Luna/Ignis/Astra in the first place. By the way, what path are you doing? Normal or Secret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Going to do both, and my two Vengeance users (Severa and Owain) only otherwise have access to Astra which is eh without Luna. Plus Vengeance is good if you play it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBlueBlur Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Ah, ok. The only reason I'm not a fan of Vengeance is because it takes a bit effort and calculations to use Vengeance effectively. You need to factor in the damage the opponent deals, your current health, enemy crits/enemy skill activations, ally Dual Guards...Basically, I'm saying it isn't very reliable, and make sure you are careful with it. BTW, I only use Vengeance if I also have a reliable Miracle activation rate EDIT: I noticed that your Kjelle has the ability to get Galeforce, but she doesn't have it. Edited October 26, 2014 by TheRealBlueBlur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 The Kjelle thing was a mindfart on my part. Thanks for that. Miracle is kinda gimmicky imo. Also, who should get the second pair of Boots (after Olivia)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBlueBlur Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 You could give the Boots to Morgan or Severa and get Deliverer from the Griffon Rider class to get an ultra-mobile axe powerhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 That's what I said. But since Hex only works on melee, it means that his wife can't be a sniper or bow user. Anathema is what you would use in that case. It goes 3 tiles wide so the bonus would still work for Bow ladies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Kind of planned team for Apo. +Str -Def MaMU Berserker (AF/Hit+20/Agg/LB/?) marries Lon'qu!Severa Wyvern Lord (LF/Vengeance/GF/LB/?) Your Severa will need All+2 to hit 75 Spd. By the way, what path are you doing? Normal or Secret? Since Normal can be semi-reliably cleared with nothing but a properly prepared convoy, it's not something that needs any special teambuilding to beat. LB with capped stats and S supports are more than enough alone. BTW, I only use Vengeance if I also have a reliable Miracle activation rate Reliable = 100%. And you don't see that very often... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBlueBlur Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I didn't mean THAT reliable of a Miracle rate...I meant at least semi-reliable (75 - 85 LCK). Sorry for the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isetrh Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I didn't mean THAT reliable of a Miracle rate...I meant at least semi-reliable (75 - 85 LCK). Sorry for the confusion. 85 Luck means a 15% chance of death. That's incredibly risky by postgame standards. If you're going at full power you should at least get the chance of death within a tiny fraction of a percent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 If you refuse to use vengance without miracle, then it's basically just a very dangerous procstack, eliminating one of Vengance's big advantages: its ludicrously high success rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owain_the_swordsman Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Here are my other pairings I'm planning to do,and are a few I'm not TOO sure of. Vaike!Nah General/Hero (Offensive/Defensive) Pavise,Aegis,Sol,Armsthrift,Axefaire Should I just make a Kellam!Nah so I could be able to tank alot in lunatic +? Stahl!Yarne (Mainly a support) Beserker Luna,Dual Guard +,Axefaire,Defender,Deliverer I am really unsure of this one.Should I just switch my Lonqu!Severa and Stahl!Yarne set? Gregor!Laurent Sorcerer (Mainly Support for magic) Armsthrift,Astra,Dual Sup+,TF,Vantage/Vengeance Really have no other skills that will help with supporting for this, are there any more that will help me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBlueBlur Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 85 Luck means a 15% chance of death. That's incredibly risky by postgame standards. If you're going at full power you should at least get the chance of death within a tiny fraction of a percent. That's what battle saves/bookmarks are for. I can preview the RNG before I actually accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) That's what battle saves/bookmarks are for. I can preview the RNG before I actually accept it. Wait... what are you talking about, previewing the RNG? Edited October 27, 2014 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgerkong Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Wait... what are you talking about, previewing the RNG? He means he can Battle Save right before entering combat in Casual Mode, and if one of his units dies he resets from that save, which is really the equivalent of save state abuse. Well, if you do that, then what's the point of Miracle? You can just reset whenever you want and make room for a more useful skill. Seriously, abusing Battle Saves is not really a good argument for using Miracle at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 The only RNG you can't perfectly determine from the battle privew screen is whether the enemy will actually crit or not. And if they do, with probably less than 15% chance to crit, the only time you need Miracle to activate has the same chance of happening as Miracle failing when it does happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owain_the_swordsman Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) That's what battle saves/bookmarks are for. I can preview the RNG before I actually accept it. Bookmarks don't help.Once you do it,you have to exit the game.A bookmark deletes once you enter it again Edited October 27, 2014 by BlazeX635 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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