Fakeclaim Mafia - Game Over

[Refa]

Oh yeah, Godfather would do it, wouldn't it? Nevermind then.

##Unvote

[Refa]

@scorri

So why should I vote Marth over you?

[Refa]

Hmm, ok, so here's the thing. If marth or euklyd were scum, they would have hammered Refa. Which means that Refa's probably the final scum if we have one. That being said... Sorry Eli.

According to your logic Marth and Euklyd not hammering indicates that they are not scum. But you never had the chance to hammer me, so doesn't that mean you could be scum?

[scorri]

Right, so here's some things.

1) Hi, I'm the doctor now. Yes, I lied, but lol why wouldn't I lie about the fact that I grabbed doc powers? Now, this isn't actually important until I reveal my night action from two nights ago. Which was targeting Psych. Wherein I was blocked. Which Marth claimed to be responsible for, so I'm willing to believe his safeguard claim. So cool. That leaves us an unexplained redirect which has targeted you, Refa, *every single time* Now, if I were scum, and had a redirect that I could control, I sure as heck wouldn't target the same person over and over again. Seems a bit odd, that.

2) Oh, look, you showed my point for me! Yes, I do believe the fact that Marth didn't hammer you yesterday indicates that he's more likely to be town than scum. He could have easily hammered you yesterday, shot Eli last night, and then won today if Eli has shot someone as well. Eli would have had to be looking for scum yesterday and if you in fact flipped cop, there's no way that Eli would have shot Marth.

3) Third, if he was in fact scum, he would have had no reason to disagree with Eli yesterday. He could have just been "Sounds good to me" lynched you and then shot Eli.

4) If he is scum, he really deserves this win. He's played well, rescued a slot that was on the brink of being modkilled, and has been playing super protown.

You, on the other hand, haven't been especially townie tbh. The only thing you have going for you in the slightest is the fact that Eukyld was killed instead of Marth. However, you could have been just assuming that since you cleared him, he'd follow you. Besides that, you're another info role in a game with a really powerful 1-shot info role, another 1-shot info role, and a backup. Add that onto the suspicion that I've had since the start that there was more than one scum on my power wagon D1... And yeah, you're not looking so hot. I will likely be voting you.

[scorri]

So uh... I guess I don't think you should vote Marth over me, I think Marth should vote you over me?

[Refa]

Right, so here's some things.

1) Hi, I'm the doctor now. Yes, I lied, but lol why wouldn't I lie about the fact that I grabbed doc powers? Now, this isn't actually important until I reveal my night action from two nights ago. Which was targeting Psych. Wherein I was blocked. Which Marth claimed to be responsible for, so I'm willing to believe his safeguard claim. So cool. That leaves us an unexplained redirect which has targeted you, Refa, *every single time* Now, if I were scum, and had a redirect that I could control, I sure as heck wouldn't target the same person over and over again. Seems a bit odd, that.

Firstly, Marth's safeguard claim has nothing to do with whether or not he's scum, as hypothetical redirector!Marth could have just redirected Psych's roleblock to you. The reason I believe him to be INNO is because I scanned his slot on Night 1, what's your reason? Especially since you stated that there was the possibility that he was Godfather?

The fact that it was redirected to me every time proves that scum is trying to pull a mislynch. Why else would a cop be alive this far in?

2) Oh, look, you showed my point for me! Yes, I do believe the fact that Marth didn't hammer you yesterday indicates that he's more likely to be town than scum. He could have easily hammered you yesterday, shot Eli last night, and then won today if Eli has shot someone as well. Eli would have had to be looking for scum yesterday and if you in fact flipped cop, there's no way that Eli would have shot Marth.

Problem with your theory is that if Elieson was looking for scum yesterday, then he would cause an autolose situation today. Additionally, by your logic you come across as scummier, because you never had the chance to hammer me.

3) Third, if he was in fact scum, he would have had no reason to disagree with Eli yesterday. He could have just been "Sounds good to me" lynched you and then shot Eli.

Or he could have left me alive and redirected my scan, considering I would be such an easy lynch target considering I was one of the only two wagons the last day. If he had lynched me and shot Eli, then things would not have been so easy.

You, on the other hand, haven't been especially townie tbh. The only thing you have going for you in the slightest is the fact that Eukyld was killed instead of Marth. However, you could have been just assuming that since you cleared him, he'd follow you. Besides that, you're another info role in a game with a really powerful 1-shot info role, another 1-shot info role, and a backup. Add that onto the suspicion that I've had since the start that there was more than one scum on my power wagon D1... And yeah, you're not looking so hot. I will likely be voting you.

Considering that Elieson wasn't town to begin with and could resurrect into either vanilla town/scum (this is another point in my favor; if Marth acted as you said he would have, then Elieson would have been able to mislynch me and be reborn as a vanilla scum the following day), I disagree that his role should play any part in this rolespec. In addition, my role was originally just vanilla cop, therefore I suspect that it was nerfed to alt night cop because of Shinori's role.

[scorri]

Firstly, Marth's safeguard claim has nothing to do with whether or not he's scum, as hypothetical redirector!Marth could have just redirected Psych's roleblock to you. The reason I believe him to be INNO is because I scanned his slot on Night 1, what's your reason? Especially since you stated that there was the possibility that he was Godfather?

The fact that it was redirected to me every time proves that scum is trying to pull a mislynch. Why else would a cop be alive this far in?

So... It's been redirected to you every time except maybe one single night Marth decides to redirect Psych's block to me? Since he knew exactly who Psych was going to hook and that I was doctor? Your theory makes no sense at all and then you contradict it later. Every night that we've had a redirect, it's been on the night kill. The only night we had people target the night kill and not get redirected was when Psych was killed and had a safeguard on him. Funny that. All actions that weren't kills would fail then. Like a redirect. You're grasping here.

Problem with your theory is that if Elieson was looking for scum yesterday, then he would cause an autolose situation today. Additionally, by your logic you come across as scummier, because you never had the chance to hammer me.

Sorry, shouldn't have said yesterday, should have said last night. Aka, if yesterday, you had been lynched. Lets say, in this theoretical situation, you were town. Eli would have needed to shoot scum on the offchance that something happened to their kill, either it was blocked or redirected, or the shot town believing he was 'vivor, whatever. Otherwise, if he had shot town, he would have lost since scum would shoot him. So Eli wouldn't have shot Marth due to Marth being "proven town" And, no, I'm not scummier, I'm just not townier. Me never having the chance to hammer you leaves me as neutral, not as scummier.

Or he could have left me alive and redirected my scan, considering I would be such an easy lynch target considering I was one of the only two wagons the last day. If he had lynched me and shot Eli, then things would not have been so easy.

If he had lynched you and shot Eli, Eli would have shot someone else, and then he'd win. So... yeah, it would be easier.

Considering that Elieson wasn't town to begin with and could resurrect into either vanilla town/scum (this is another point in my favor; if Marth acted as you said he would have, then Elieson would have been able to mislynch me and be reborn as a vanilla scum the following day), I disagree that his role should play any part in this rolespec. In addition, my role was originally just vanilla cop, therefore I suspect that it was nerfed to alt night cop because of Shinori's role.

... This has nothing to do with Eli's role? Shinori: very powerful info role, has the ability to clear multiple people/condemn multiple people. Psych: has a scan, revealed Eli as ITP, remember? Me: Backup. So I don't really get why you're bringing Eli up here at all in fact.

My points stand.

[Refa]

So... It's been redirected to you every time except maybe one single night Marth decides to redirect Psych's block to me? Since he knew exactly who Psych was going to hook and that I was doctor? Your theory makes no sense at all and then you contradict it later. Every night that we've had a redirect, it's been on the night kill. The only night we had people target the night kill and not get redirected was when Psych was killed and had a safeguard on him. Funny that. All actions that weren't kills would fail then. Like a redirect. You're grasping here.

Fair enough for the first part, I wasn't thinking clearly. Re: Bolded- How do you know the safeguard wouldn't be redirected?

Sorry, shouldn't have said yesterday, should have said last night. Aka, if yesterday, you had been lynched. Lets say, in this theoretical situation, you were town. Eli would have needed to shoot scum on the offchance that something happened to their kill, either it was blocked or redirected, or the shot town believing he was 'vivor, whatever. Otherwise, if he had shot town, he would have lost since scum would shoot him. So Eli wouldn't have shot Marth due to Marth being "proven town" And, no, I'm not scummier, I'm just not townier. Me never having the chance to hammer you leaves me as neutral, not as scummier.

Considering the redirector is most likely the scum, how would their kill be redirected? And if I'm grasping by stating that Marth knew that you were doctor, than surely you're guilty of the same considering that you're assuming Elieson would worry about his kill being blocked when noone had mentioned/was suspected of having roles that could do that. And Elieson wouldn't have lost if scum believed that he was survivor and he shot town; even if the scenario was 1:1:1 on the last day, he could've used his rogue abilities and be reborn as town/scum. Also re:the last sentence, considering you set me at L-1, if Marth was town (which by your logic, states that he wouldn't hammer me) and I was town as well, you could use that logic to set up a mislynch on me the next day; this is why I stated it made you seem scummier. Also keep in mind that Marth didn't hammer after I posted that Euklyd is probably not scum, because he didn't hammer me. Therefore, that logic alone doesn't necessarily clear him (although again, I believe that he is town).

If he had lynched you and shot Eli, Eli would have shot someone else, and then he'd win. So... yeah, it would be easier.

Unless Elieson shot him. Seems like a rather big gamble to take.

... This has nothing to do with Eli's role? Shinori: very powerful info role, has the ability to clear multiple people/condemn multiple people. Psych: has a scan, revealed Eli as ITP, remember? Me: Backup. So I don't really get why you're bringing Eli up here at all in fact.

Oh duh. I forgot about Psych. Regardless, considering you were willing to believe that town had 2 vig shots and Elieson had a 2-shot vig (in addition to all of his other roles), I find it hard to believe that you couldn't see town having 2 one shot tracking roles and an alt night cop.

[scorri]

Fair enough for the first part, I wasn't thinking clearly. Re: Bolded- How do you know the safeguard wouldn't be redirected?

True, I don't know for sure. All I know is that my action failed and that if safeguard had a higher priority, redirect would fail. BBM won't answer priority questions.

Considering the redirector is most likely the scum, how would their kill be redirected? And if I'm grasping by stating that Marth knew that you were doctor, than surely you're guilty of the same considering that you're assuming Elieson would worry about his kill being blocked when noone had mentioned/was suspected of having roles that could do that. And Elieson wouldn't have lost if scum believed that he was survivor and he shot town; even if the scenario was 1:1:1 on the last day, he could've used his rogue abilities and be reborn as town/scum. Also re:the last sentence, considering you set me at L-1, if Marth was town (which by your logic, states that he wouldn't hammer me) and I was town as well, you could use that logic to set up a mislynch on me the next day; this is why I stated it made you seem scummier. Also keep in mind that Marth didn't hammer after I posted that Euklyd is probably not scum, because he didn't hammer me. Therefore, that logic alone doesn't necessarily clear him (although again, I believe that he is town).

Ok, right. So, the only way Eli had a chance of winning was if scum in some way didn't shoot him (maybe I lied about taking shinori's role and instead took Bizz's role or Boron's role), so he would have had to shoot scum to try and win.

I uh... never said anything about Eli worrying about his kill? In fact, you just proved my point even more. Eli shoots who he thinks is scum (aka not Marth if you flip as town!cop), rogues as scum shooting him into town.

I never said Marth was clear I just said I believe him to be town, there's a difference.

Unless Elieson shot him. Seems like a rather big gamble to take.

And as I've said before, it was highly unlikely that Eli would have shot a at that point proven clear since he needs to shoot scum. Yes, it's a risk, but so is going into a 3 way LYLO situation like this.

Oh duh. I forgot about Psych. Regardless, considering you were willing to believe that town had 2 vig shots and Elieson had a 2-shot vig (in addition to all of his other roles), I find it hard to believe that you couldn't see town having 2 one shot tracking roles and an alt night cop.

Lol like I was ever not going to lynch Eli yesterday. I was trying to see what people would do with their vote if I put you near lynch. Tbf, I would have been fine with lynching you yesterday since I believed you to be scum (still do) but I didn't honestly believe Elie's lies. It was quite clearly him making stuff up as he went. Also, there's a difference between ITP having vig shots alongside town, and three town having info roles where one of them gives info on multiple people.

[Refa]

I uh... never said anything about Eli worrying about his kill? In fact, you just proved my point even more. Eli shoots who he thinks is scum (aka not Marth if you flip as town!cop), rogues as scum shooting him into town.

Elieson could choose his alignment, there's no reason he wouldn't shoot a townie and predict who he thinks is scum will kill him, which would allow him to res as vanilla scum the next day and win.

And as I've said before, it was highly unlikely that Eli would have shot a at that point proven clear since he needs to shoot scum. Yes, it's a risk, but so is going into a 3 way LYLO situation like this.

Read above. We're talking about Elieson's logic here, so I'm not sure what today's situation has to do with that.

Lol like I was ever not going to lynch Eli yesterday. I was trying to see what people would do with their vote if I put you near lynch. Tbf, I would have been fine with lynching you yesterday since I believed you to be scum (still do) but I didn't honestly believe Elie's lies. It was quite clearly him making stuff up as he went. Also, there's a difference between ITP having vig shots alongside town, and three town having info roles where one of them gives info on multiple people.

Shinori's role lets him see all of the scum on the wagon of whoever got lynched, once. My role lets me investigate every other night, so if things were especially fortuitious for town, we'd have been able to clear 3 people at best a 6 person wagon by Day 6. I'm not exactly sure why you find that absurd.

[Refa]

Sorry, I got the Day wrong, it would be Day 4.

[scorri]

Shinori's role lets him see all of the scum on the wagon of whoever got lynched, once. My role lets me investigate every other night, so if things were especially fortuitious for town, we'd have been able to clear 3 people at best a 6 person wagon by Day 4. I'm not exactly sure why you find that absurd.

Bold adds in the correction you gave me.

So... right. Shinori's role would tell him the number of non-town on a wagon. So, lets say we had actually grabbed the results from SB's wagon D1.

Grassbridger (1): Bearclaw

SB (7): Boron, Euklyd, Kirsche, Scorri, Weapons, Grassbridger, Elieson

Scorri (6): Eclipse, Refa, Bizz, Paperblade, Psych, Shinori

Euklyd (1): SB

Now, FMPOV, that would have shown up as 1 non-town on that wagon. If you were smart and scanned someone not on the wagon (like Marth, like you did) and then Psych scanned Eli like he did, by D3 we would have had 7 clears, counting the people who died. Of those people on the wagon, only two had died by D3, so we would have had 5 clears by D3, which is a lot.

[scorri]

Grassbridger (1): Bearclaw

SB (7): Boron, Euklyd, Kirsche, Scorri, Weapons, Grassbridger, Elieson

Scorri (6): Eclipse, Refa, Bizz, Paperblade, Psych, Shinori

Euklyd (1): SB

Day2

Paperblade (3): Scorri, Elieson, Polydeuces

Polydeuces (5): Refa, Grassbridger, Boron, Eclipse, Bizz

Refa (3): Psych, Weapons, Paperblade

Day3

Paperblade (6): Elieson, Eclipse, Scorri, Euklyd, Psych, Refa

Refa (3): Weapons, Paperblade, Marth

Weapons (1): Boron

Day4

Weapons (3): Refa, Psych, Elieson, Euklyd

Elieson (3): Weapons, Bluedoom, scorri

Can we also add onto the fact that the only time you've been on a scum wagon you were the counter wagon and that you were the one responsible for starting the turbolynch attempt on me?

[Refa]

1) Hi, I'm the doctor now. Yes, I lied, but lol why wouldn't I lie about the fact that I grabbed doc powers? Now, this isn't actually important until I reveal my night action from two nights ago. Which was targeting Psych. Wherein I was blocked. Which Marth claimed to be responsible for, so I'm willing to believe his safeguard claim. So cool. That leaves us an unexplained redirect which has targeted you, Refa, *every single time* Now, if I were scum, and had a redirect that I could control, I sure as heck wouldn't target the same person over and over again. Seems a bit odd, that.

Since Grassbridger mentioned that he was redirected from Shinori, one could assume that there was an anti-town role that had redirector at the time (I can see no other reason that someone would redirect from Shinori). In that case, why did you choose to backup doctor? It would have been more beneficial for town if you were to have backed up Hooker and been able to block scum/SK kills.

Can we also add onto the fact that the only time you've been on a scum wagon you were the counter wagon and that you were the one responsible for starting the turbolynch attempt on me?

I'm not sure what the wagon on you has to do with anything. If I was scum, considering that Elieson had more votes than you when I voted and it would be impossible from any perspective for him to have been my scumbuddy, it would have been far easier for me to have voted him instead of you.

Bold adds in the correction you gave me.

So... right. Shinori's role would tell him the number of non-town on a wagon. So, lets say we had actually grabbed the results from SB's wagon D1.

Grassbridger (1): Bearclaw

SB (7): Boron, Euklyd, Kirsche, Scorri, Weapons, Grassbridger, Elieson

Scorri (6): Eclipse, Refa, Bizz, Paperblade, Psych, Shinori

Euklyd (1): SB

Now, FMPOV, that would have shown up as 1 non-town on that wagon. If you were smart and scanned someone not on the wagon (like Marth, like you did) and then Psych scanned Eli like he did, by D3 we would have had 7 clears, counting the people who died. Of those people on the wagon, only two had died by D3, so we would have had 5 clears by D3, which is a lot.

This doesn't prove anything though, seeing as Shinori's role would have provided 90% of the clears (yet you never doubted his role on Day 1), and my role would have only added an extra clear to the mix. So at this point, we're not debating whether my role breaks things, but rather whether Shinori's role breaks things.

[scorri]

... No, we're debating if your role + Psych's role + Shinori's role makes sense. And why would I have doubted him D1? There was no reason to.

I'm not sure what the wagon on you has to do with anything. If I was scum, considering that Elieson had more votes than you when I voted and it would be impossible from any perspective for him to have been my scumbuddy, it would have been far easier for me to have voted him instead of you.

Rapid turbowagon on me as a counter wagon to a flipped scum. More people found me scummy compared to Elie, so I was the easier target. Scum starts the wagon to see if it goes anywhere, someone else jumps on, followed by another scum, and then town. Makes sense to me.

As for why I chose doctor... At that point, I had no idea how the scum role worked, I had no clue if they would be lynched sooner rather than later. I don't refill shots, so likely I had one shot left of a hook as opposed to something that could be used every night, and generally doctor is more useful. Why *wouldn't* I grab doctor?

[scorri]

Like... seriously, why would I take a 1-shot hook compared to doctor? Scum could have hitman, the redirect could have been limited shot, etc. Doctor could be useful and there's no reason for me to have not grabbed it.

[Bluedoom]

ugh ok so see my problem is both of you have claims that are not provable and they're kinda unbelievable. Also scorri I remember you throwing some logic about scum splitting their members in votes to avoid Shinori, but if that's the case you're basically scum from PoE. Also I don't really remember you do anything other than gun for Paperblade's lynch, which, while pro-town, can be seen as WIFOM(and you and Refa both went after Paperblade at some point and he went after both of you, which makes things harder for me. ugh)

Talking about Godfather!Safeguard when there's a flipped Scum!Commuter is just silly. Really, now.

Refa's results are of great concern to me. Don't know why you'd scan me N1, but N3 I believe you uh... got redirected to Eli? I'll need to re-read again, but I wonder if Boron caused some weird shenanigans and claimed it in thread. I feel miserable right now. ;-; N5 result just makes me want to cry, I swear.

[scorri]

K, question:

Marth: What did you do last night?

Other things: I don't really believe you're godfather, I just think that putting down a vote in 3 person lylo is dumb.

I have literally never ended the day with my vote on a town person. I have always been hunting scum.

Boron did... wait.

N3: Drove eclipse and Weapons. Was redirected from eclipse to Refa, so drove Refa and Weapons.

That uh... does not work with Refa's results. At all. There's only been one redirect flipped so far, this would mean that there were three redirects in the game if Refa was telling the truth.

##Vote:Refa

[Bluedoom]

Targeted Refa on the chance that if he were town, his result would be useful...

wait. Shit.

##Vote: Refa

THANKS FOR KNOCKING MY HEAD, SCORRI!!

[Paperblade]

so close =(

[BBM]

damnit Paperblade

[Paperblade]

yet so far

[Paperblade]

trolling with flips every game gets boring

[Elieson]

[BBM]

blah blah blah Refa has been lynched!

He was:

Dear Refa, you are the BPV Martyr, as claimed by BigBangMeteor in Everyone is Mafia Mafia 2.

In EiMM2, I was actually the PGO. I claimed this role to get as many people to attack me and die on N1 as possible, taking them down with me. However, I read my role wrong and didn’t realize that if I died, people targeting me on that night wouldn’t actually die. Despite this mishap, Rocker was a bro and targeted me with his reflecting ability, causing everyone who’d tried to kill me to kill themselves, which was my intention all along. Sadly, j00 also drove me with Manix, so the people who I myself had gotten to kill Manix ended up killing me. But no matter, my claim successfully trolled the game and that’s what’s important.

Therefore, every night, you may reply to your role PM with <Night X: ##Guard USER>. All non-factional actions targeting USER will target you instead. In addition to this, the first time you are shot, you will not die.

You are allied with the Successful Claims. You win when the Successful Claims reach parity with the rest of the game.

And with that, the Failed Claims have won the game! But their rebellion still fails because they only have two people left RIP.

Postgame and whatnot will be here soon.