Fakeclaim Mafia - Game Over

[BBM]

Manix: I guess the best advice I can give is that even if something that's going to be disastrous for your team is going to happen, don't subtly try to fight against it in-thread. Either do it super hard so that you can at least WIFOM after the fact, or don't do it at all (this is about you trying to get people to stop treating Shinori as conftown, which I think was the scummiest thing you did).

SB: First off, I'm sorry about the position you got subbed into. Being the leading wagon with 24 hours left in the phase is a super shitty place to start off. That being said, I thought your lie about the mod error was sort of lame, because it dragged me into the middle of the game in a way it shouldn't have.

Shinori: When you have a role as powerful as Sensor, shut the hell up about it. Don't crumb it in a super-obvious way, and ESPECIALLY don't crumb it in a super-obvious way when several people have intimate knowledge about the role. Consider for a moment what would have happened if you'd outed your result on D2 that only one person on the SB wagon was scum. There would have been like 5 clears after the Elie inspect. Also, don't coast off your role. It doesn't lessen you as a target in the eyes of the scumteam and only makes you less useful to the town.

Bearclaw: You didn't really push anything hard, I felt. You were just sort of piddling around talking about weak reads and commenting on stuff without scumhunting.

Objection: You subbed out pretty quickly and tbh I can't remember what you did before then.

Kirsche: You tunneled a bit on Manix, but other than that you played pretty well. You were unlucky to get #Psyched.

Polydeuces: If you're going to sign up for a game, play that game. You posted somewhat regularly but refused to really try at all. Also, give reasons for your reads- it helps convince other people.

Grassbridger: You played decently, I think. Turbowagoning someone with 30 seconds left can be really risky but you got lucky. Other than that, if you're a protective role, don't claim that you were visiting the obvious protection target. IIRC the mafia guessed you were some sort of protection but wanted to kill Bizz first. In the end though, the person whom you thought was Vig and protected ironically ended up killing you.

Bizz: Have more conviction in your reads. They may be wrong or they may be right, but not expressing them isn't going to help anybody. It still affects your play and makes you more suspicious of the other person, but without letting the other person defend themselves and without letting other people judge if they also think that person is suspicious.

Paperblade: I think you know what screwed you over the most in this game. Other than that, I know you're aware of this, but you have the tendency as scum to start coasting as soon as you can, until someone calls you out on it. You coasted D1 for a while until people were suspicious of you. Then on D2 once people decided your reactions were genuine and that they didn't want to lynch you that day, you started coasting again. Still, props on guiding Refa as far as you did, and your decision to bus him almost let him get to the end of the game.

Eclipse: I think my biggest problem with your play was how you treated yourself on D1. Yes, your role is weaker than everyone else's. However, you should know that you yourself are a stronger player than most other people. And it wasn't like there wasn't any discussion going on D1 either- D1 was pretty active. Offering yourself up as a sacrificial lamb for associative reads isn't smart or necessary.

Boron: Push your reads more. Often times you sort of just state your reads but don't make enough of an attempt to push them. And never ever say you're okay with being vigged or lynched unless you're 100% sure that town will win after your flip. Also the point of crumbs is so that nobody notices them until you want them to. Don't italicize your crumbs; the mafia realized you were the Driver as soon as you did it. If Shinori hadn't presented himself as a bigger target you probably would have been killed N1. Also read what I said to Grass about being a protective role.

Weapons: When you actually gave reads, they weren't bad, but you didn't really try for large portions of the game. You also said at one point that you might sub out because you were having trouble getting reads, which is a really bad attitude, and if you'd made a formal request with that reasoning, I would have refused no matter how many subs I had. Also, you should have Dayvigged Elie like right away,

Psych: Don't really have anything to say because you've probably heard everything before... I guess in future use the Cop shot first and the Vig after. A Cop clear isn't as good as a guilty, but it's still pretty useful; in comparison the difference between a misvig and a correct vig is much much greater.

Elie: You played about as well as you could have after getting #Psyched. The WWS claim just isn't a good fake, but a regular Survivor claim would probably have been lynched on grounds of being no use to the town, so you were in a tough spot there. All your claims after that initial one got progressively worse and less believable but at that point it was all just backtracking to extricate yourself from your lies. I think your biggest mistake was your killing attitude. Killing lurkers cuts down on mislynch opportunities, and the Bearclaw kill was even worse because you thought there was a decent chance he was scum, and there'd already been a scum lynch D1. And you wanted to joint with mafia over town if possible, so the kill choice was just really bad. Yes, you want to go for people unlikely to be protected, so you go for the second or third most townie person, not a lurker. Other than that you need to improve on your skills at picking up crumbs. I have no idea how you missed Boron's incredibly obvious Driver crumb and interpreted it as BG.

Euklyd: You played well for your first game I think. Some of your logic was bad but meh. It'll get better with time. Definitely would like to see you play more. Sorry that the comments here are sparse but it's hard to tell someone in their first game what mistakes they made. Your choice to hammer Weapons on D4 was bad. For one thing, Dayvigs are almost always town (I think there's been one scum Dayvig in 40ish games I've played).

Scorri: I think the D1 wagon on you was bad and it was mostly a wagon driven by scum to try and save scum. You were feeling crap about it on D1 when it looked like you were going to be lynched and you shouldn't (even Paperblade admitted to me that the case on you was shit). That being said, I had a real problem with your D2/D3 play. You basically just voteparked Paperblade and that's it. He was scum, but you didn't make very much effort to push him and barely pushed anyone else at all. Apparently you were just joking around leaving Elie alive on D5 but meh. Also your claim that you were doing it as a reaction test of sorts is ??? considering your opinions about reaction tests and tbh I would have pushed that harder if I were Refa but it's not exactly bad play.

Marth: You played okay I think. Your opinions were consistently good and you were actually against Elie, though you should have pushed it harder. Not much here to say.

Refa: So close. Not sure if this was your choice or Paperblade's, but there was no real reason to claim you were redirected in your N3 inspect and was what did you in in the end. I think your LYLO play was also unfocused in that you spent as much time dissecting Scorri's arguments that Marth was town as arguing that she was scum, which was unnecessary.

Now, general comments to town: Seriously guys wtf? Elie claimed ITP in a game with a SK, then lied about all his actions, kept backtracking over everything he was saying, had night actions that made no sense whatsoever, and you guys took like three day phases to kill him? There's a lot more to say about this but I just have no words for that.

Town MVP: Nobody, because I don't believe in giving MVP awards to people not of the alignment (Elie). Marth or Eclipse if I REALLY HAD TO.

Mafia MVP: Paperblade

Game MVP: Either Paper or Elie

spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkWaDC6lszVqdHp3UjJVVXQtb1VJZk95QXlzbFg2YWc#gid=0

mod qt: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/ceCAAEgfG8yS

graveyard qt: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/HZjcXSYHrth

mafia qt: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/abvaGZk4TjFG

Edited October 11, 2013 by BigBadMarshmallow

[Grace]

Why do you think I give no fucks about wording choice?

i'm pretty sure you actually do though

you've got on my case many a time for specific wording around pushing a point (see: masquerade), which changes the tone of the message being put across. i'm almost 100% sure what i quoted isn't true

[Percivalé]

I'm never confident in any of my reads sorry ):

[Grassbridger]

Yeah I thought Elie was vig because of a post with weird spelling errors that included the letters "v", "i", and "g" in order... After looking super-townie due to the last minute lynch I thought I was fairly likely to die N2 anyway and I was hoping that crumbing my role would get Boron to drive me. And since I thought Elie was vig, I thought there was no SK until D3...

Meh. First game I had any good reads. I'll take it.

[Sunwoo]

I idled on N2 because I couldn't decide what I wanted to do with my action before I went to bed, and by the time I got up the next day and was able to get to a computer deadline had already passed. I love my work.

[eclipse]

BBM, when stuff like Sensor pops up early, that tells me that my best shot of helping the town is to be as memorable as possible. The entirety of my D1 wasn't a reaction test (I did pull one, and that was D3). I had way too many null reads when I went "fuck it, we'll do it live". I was tired of skirmishes, with very little being done otherwise. Whether I do this again highly depends on what I see in future games - if I think it's the best course of action, I'll go for it.

I said I'd yell at Polydeuces. . .so here I go. Actively saying that you don't want to participate is about the worst possible thing you could've done as town. You'd draw the ire of those townies that were trying, and any mafia who felt like it would be a good opportunity to lynch you. Furthermore, as vanilla, you HAVE to use the day phase to its fullest. Otherwise, you're dead weight (mafia isn't going to touch you if you're not going to play, 'cause your lack of existence is a detriment of its own). Honestly, I would've been happier if you'd subbed out.

Now, the last person. . .is Grassbridger. This is forum mafia, not RL mafia. I don't care about word choice, because I have all the time in the world to edit my post until it doesn't sound scummy. Second, you weren't asking WHY IS ECLIPSE DOING THIS?, and instead went straight to scumread. Mafia offering themselves up as a lynch sacrifice ON DAY 1 is about as anti-wincon as possible, unless they're trying to pull some ridiculous WIFOM (which would fail if the game had a full-time cop) or they get some nifty role that triggers on lynch, and need to spring it immediately. Part of the game is getting into the other person's head, and asking why they're acting like that - it's not totally foolproof, but it should help to steer you away from bad lynches. Lastly, if someone says "don't answer this", and they don't have you as a scumread, DON'T ANSWER IT! I think that contributed to you being killed on N2.

[Prims]

Levity: learn to pretend you are, that's what i do like 70% of the time

straight talk corner, the secret to being good at mafia is making shit up so people will listen to you

anyway cool postgame bbm i didnt read it. join cy'or

[Prims]

I'm serious, in AM/PM I wasn't really reading anybody better or worse than I usually do (except BBM which was all gut), I was just too out of the game to write a bunch of words about my thoughts and felt pretty bad about everything I had to say as a result.

[Prims]

actually better advice is to not be like me, i'm bad at mafia

[Prims]

a triple post series of self-realization

[Refa]

Too profound.

[Bluedoom]

scumhunting off of tone/word choice is dumb cuz loldoingitonaforum.

Its all about night actions lol

[Paperblade]

I didn't even know Refa was claiming cop til after he did it

it was him + SB talking I think

Now, general comments to town: Seriously guys wtf? Elie claimed ITP in a game with a SK, then lied about all his actions, kept backtracking over everything he was saying, had night actions that made no sense whatsoever, and you guys took like three day phases to kill him? There's a lot more to say about this but I just have no words for that.

ALSO THIS WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK

FIRST RULE OF MAFIA: SUFFER NOT THE NEUTRAL TO LIVE

Edited October 11, 2013 by Paperblade

[Sunwoo]

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/rK7xECdhc2qw2

I tried to keep a thoughts QT like Manix and other people do. I gave up on it sometime around D3 after like 7 posts or so.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

gg/bye

[Percivalé]

I will try to Get Better at making shit up I will probably just have to keep working on it in the future (and my confidence which is akin to that of a carton of grapes)

[BBM]

Probably being unfair to Scorri and scapegoating her for some of town's full-on moronic decisions. She should joint with Marth for town MVP.

This setup was somewhat townsided and super swingy and for that I apologize. FSR when I was making the game I just assumed Wiseman would want to scumside and balanced it around that and then realized after the game started that he could townside and out a guilty. The mafia, particularly the Shrouded and Martyr were also there in direct opposition to the town's roles, and therefore especially the Martyr's death would have basically unleashed the full force of town's billion protective roles. Speaking of protective roles, town had too many and I don't know how I didn't see that. I kept their investigation fairly low (just the Sensor and the 1-shot Cop), but somehow didn't see the buttload of protection they had.

Wiseman should have been stronger; maybe with the Rogue extended to lynch hammers as well?

My 1-shot lynchproof claim from SFM was the first (town) role in the game, but then when I was making the setup, like ten people asked me if it was going to be in the game. So I deliberately put in Mafia Shrouded to fuck with them, and it was originally given Lynchproof as a fake. But Kaoz said it was a bad fake since Shrouded was only lynchproof for D1, so in the end it wasn't in the game at all.

I shouldn't have split it into successful claims vs failed claims- it made finding roles to fill specific purposes really really difficult, as can be evidenced by the fact that half the mafia weren't even successful fakes.

I specifically chose Delayed PGO over regular PGO because I wanted to see if the delayed kills would alter the regular MO of claiming it ASAP any. In that sense I was slightly pleased when Euklyd rolled it because he would be more likely to do something different with it. Of course, the downside to this was that as a new player who played semi-competently, he wasn't targeted by anyone at all until the end.

I'm also seriously disappointed I didn't include WEAK WATCHER SURVIVOR in the game (I probably would have made it something like Town Compulsive Weak Watcher that couldn't target the same person more than once). I can't believe I didn't think of it at all.

Some memorable fakes that were in the game at one point and got taken out:

Beloved Princess, as claimed by Bal in SFMM

Lynchproof, as claimed by me in SFM

Rolecop, as claimed by Shinori in Haphazard

PGO, as claimed by Haze in CPM

some others I can't remember/might want to save for FAKECLAIM MAFIA 2

[Prims]

Why does the OST version of halfway of promise make the scratches quieter. if you do that what is even the point

[Bluedoom]

ok so BBM yeah I'm sort of sorry for unvoting Eli D5 but I was pissed that we were dragging the days and I hate it when it happens in this situation because by allowing anti-town to talk it instills doubt in town. Then I just went "Fuck it" and unvoted because I felt like no one was listening to me.

[BBM]

Oh right:

Scorri has survived! She was:

Dear Scorri, you are the Backup, as claimed by JBCWK in Prince of Tennis Mafia.

JB didn’t really do much at all Cycle 1 in PoT, and then tried claiming one of the most common scum fakeclaims late in the cycle to get the lynch off him. Needless to say, it didn’t work. He got lynched pretty much right after, starting a series of correct lynches that left the town with a perfect record at the end of the game. Not that his lynch led the town to the rest of the scum. Or it might have, I don’t know; I’ve never read PoT. But in any case, you’re sort of annoyed about it.

Therefore, once during the game, at night, you may reply to your role PM with <Night X - ##Become USER>, where USER is a dead member of the town. You will adopt their role for the rest of the game. This does not reset limited use abilities.

You have successfully become Grassbridger! Therefore, every night, you may respond to your role PM with <Night X: ##Protect USER>. You will spend the night looking after USER and protecting them from all fatal actions. Non-fatal actions will still work.

You are allied with the Failed Claims. You win when they are the only ones left.

Marth has also survived! He was:

Dear Kay Marth, you are Dekka Talent, the Safeguard, as claimed by MancerNecro in FAYZ Mafia.

You were claimed by Mancer in his very first game, where he thought that for some reason, if he lied and claimed the exact same role and character as Marth, he’d actually be protecting him instead of hurting the town. His thought process was that he would draw kills from Marth towards himself, which he wanted as he was actually a Bulletproof. Of course, what really happened was that while doing this, he couldn’t counterclaim Paperblade, who then went on to win the game for the mafia because the town wasted their time thinking that one of him and Marth were mafia, while they were actually both town. So overall, you were a pretty unsuccessful fakeclaim, and you’re here to reclaim your dignity.

Therefore, every night, you may respond to your role PM with <Night X: ##Safeguard USER>. You will spend the night looking after USER and protecting them from all non-fatal actions. Fatal actions will still work.

You are allied with the Failed Claims. You win when they are the only ones left.

[Percivalé]

neutrals are beautiful rare creatures though that should be cherished & protected

[scorri]

Probably being unfair to Scorri and scapegoating her for some of town's full-on moronic decisions. She should joint with Marth for town MVP.

You're aware I disagree but.

Besides that, thanks for the game. Had fun.

[Sunwoo]

neutrals are beautiful rare creatures though that should be cherished & protected

They'll only be cherished and protected as long as they don't get in the way of my wincon!

[Prims]

neutrals are beautiful rare creatures though that should be lynched on policy

[Paperblade]

they're beautiful and rare, that's why they belong mounted on my wall