MRDRHAWK Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 So, town apparently has another tracking role? God damn. Alright, hold the fuck up here. I think I have something now. So, Baldrick's claimed Voyeur, and Scorri's Follower to go with my Tracker. Scorri's results more or less outed Shinori as scum (since he caught him lying by following me last night) so I'd think he's clear. But Baldrick's role being Voyeur sounds kinda scummy IMO; it doesn't sound like a Town role (then again, neither did Eclipse's Poisoner) and the target doesn't help his case at all. That being said, he hasn't done anything super scummy right now, and my crosshairs are on someone else. So, assuming Baldrick's legit and the setup is just ridiculously heavy on tracking roles, right now everyone's claimed but Eury (unless I missed something in his ISO): BBM: One-shot Jailkeeper Eclipse: One-shot Poisoner Poly(me): One-shot Tracker Baldrick: One-shot Voyeur Scorri: One-shot Follower He made a big show of posting up a sort of claim analysis on D2 before we lynched Objection, and yet he never claimed himself, which seemed kind of odd, but that was pre-claim for Baldrick and Scorri, so it wasn't too much of an issue at the time. It's important to note that he did hint at either Doctor or a Roleblocker of some sort with a slip at the end of D2 involving some sort of protection on Bizz (for reference, our Recruiter), but, again, assuming all current claims are town, Eury could well be a scum Roleblocker if that's indeed his role. If it's Doctor, then it'll be harder to lynch him since that's more of a town role than most, but I'm not seeing another viable option right now. More importantly, of note about his D2 slip: the one who told him to shut up about it? None other than our Mason Recruiter, Bizz. I think it may well have been a dual slip there, one that we never really paid attention to: one on Bizz's recruit target, and one on Eury being our last scum. ##Vote: Eury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 More importantly, of note about his D2 slip: the one who told him to shut up about it? None other than our Mason Recruiter, Bizz. I think it may well have been a dual slip there, one that we never really paid attention to: one on Bizz's recruit target, and one on Eury being our last scum. Uhm, what slip are you talking about, also are you implying that Eury was Bizz's target cause if so then he can't be scum or else Bizz would've died before that. BBM: I dunno, poisoner is just vig except with a stump power added to it, from how I see it. I'm not saying it is town for sure, but I could see it being either town or scum. Baldrick: If I was scum there was literally no reason for me to even talk about my role. I could have claimed so many things other than having targeted Poly, I could have just watched as things happened, etc. But, you know, I'm kinda puzzled as to why you would just ignore the fact that your role not only showed up no one visiting to the kill target the night you used it, but also didn't speak out against Shinori. Yeah, you say you wanted to let things run their course, but what if someone had hammered accidentally in that time you were "waiting"? If you have info that's relevant to a 1v1, you make that known asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Also, Poly, Voyeur/Follower aren't really incompatible with Trackers/Watchers. Voyeur and Follower are more like cops in that they act as rolecop if someone uses their active action and fail to see anything if their target is either passive or doesn't do anything. Also, Baldrick, why in the world would you not call out Shinori for not seeing you visiting Euklyd as well? I really don't like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Eury was on euklyd, not bizz Accidental hammers are definitely a thing worth worrying about, because the chance of that happening is not incredibly small at all. If I called out shinori on that I might as well have claimed. I don't get why you object to letting things play out. Isn't it more "fun" that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Eury was on euklyd, not bizz Wait, what? I'm confused as to what this has to do with anything? Accidental hammers are definitely a thing worth worrying about, because the chance of that happening is not incredibly small at all.If I called out shinori on that I might as well have claimed. a) Accidental hammers/Turbolynches are things that happen and have happened before on less than a claimed watcher saying they saw someone who people view ass suspicious visiting the night target. So yes, they are a thing worth worrying about. And that's my point. You had role results that basically confirmed Shinori as scum and yet did nothing about it. Of course you should have called him out on it. If you have info that gives scum, you out it as soon as you're sure it's solid. I don't get why you object to letting things play out. Isn't it more "fun" that way? If you're talking about my comment to Shinori, there's a *huge* difference between someone modkilling themselves and you outing info that could prevent someone from getting mislynched. So don't even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 It's important to note that he did hint at either Doctor or a Roleblocker of some sort with a slip at the end of D2 involving some sort of protection on Bizz (for reference, our Recruiter), You talk as if I was going to sit on my results the whole phase. Both put an end to any further discussion for that day phase. And Shinori was a dead man anyway, what point was there in waiting for the hammer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Because modkilling yourself is dumb, prevents yourself from winning, is giving up, and is completely unhelpful to everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurykins Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 So, town apparently has another tracking role? God damn. Alright, hold the fuck up here. I think I have something now. So, assuming Baldrick's legit and the setup is just ridiculously heavy on tracking roles, right now everyone's claimed but Eury (unless I missed something in his ISO): BBM: One-shot Jailkeeper Eclipse: One-shot Poisoner Poly(me): One-shot Tracker Baldrick: One-shot Voyeur Scorri: One-shot Follower He made a big show of posting up a sort of claim analysis on D2 before we lynched Objection, and yet he never claimed himself, which seemed kind of odd, but that was pre-claim for Baldrick and Scorri, so it wasn't too much of an issue at the time. It's important to note that he did hint at either Doctor or a Roleblocker of some sort with a slip at the end of D2 involving some sort of protection on Bizz (for reference, our Recruiter), but, again, assuming all current claims are town, Eury could well be a scum Roleblocker if that's indeed his role. If it's Doctor, then it'll be harder to lynch him since that's more of a town role than most, but I'm not seeing another viable option right now. More importantly, of note about his D2 slip: the one who told him to shut up about it? None other than our Mason Recruiter, Bizz. I think it may well have been a dual slip there, one that we never really paid attention to: one on Bizz's recruit target, and one on Eury being our last scum. ##Vote: Eury Welp, with Bizz's death, that nullifies my weird feelings about him. RIP Bizz. :( Anyways, it's true that I never claimed. However, the general idea of my claim (though I didn't exactly mean to mention it- I owe it to my headache that night) was that I opted to protect Euklyd in Night 1. Whether he was the target of the N1 kill or not, I didn't know, but honestly, I figured there was nothing to lose in protecting him. Official claim: I am a second town jailer. This is why I was also suspicious of Bizz/BBM's buddy-buddy system. I did not know if BBM's claims were legit or not, but I also realized that duplicate roles can exist in this game. Of course, with as many 'tracker/follower/etc' roles floating around, I didn't think SB would incorporate so many similar roles into the townies. And concerning the bolded part: As I explained in those posts, I was typing out my thoughts of random suspicion reads, which turned out to be false. In addition, with prompts from Bizz and Eclipse, I believe it was- I opted to likewise drop it. Because I realized that, though my odd thoughts/feelings were there, it wasn't helping us with the current situation at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 And like... no. If there's even the slightest chance that someone could get turbolynched and you have information proving that they are not town, you reveal it right away. If you have information proving someone is scum, you out it right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurykins Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Because modkilling yourself is dumb, prevents yourself from winning, is giving up, and is completely unhelpful to everything. Even so. We knew that Shinori was most-likely going to get lynched- he easily saw it coming, I'm assuming. And he wasn't feeling well/lots of shit was happening via WoW and other raid drama, so I figure that he'd just drop the mod hammer on himself and save us some time/needless voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I don't care how upset you are, you don't modkill yourself. It's basically just saying "Screw this game, screw the mod, I don't care about any of this, f you all." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurykins Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Well, to be frank, he could've just self-voted and dropped the hammer on himself that way. Or he could've waited out the entire duration of the day phase, only to probably die at the end of it. I'm not saying it's the best action in the world to do, but what happened happened. There's no point in beating a dead horse (or a dead Shinori in this case) for what's been said and done. And quite frankly, the only person/people who should be annoyed by Shinori's actions (if anyone) = Mafia. For giving up and trying not to tip the wagon against Poly or someone else. Townies basically just got a freebie kill on a Mafia- no real loss there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I would much rather someone self-hammer than modkill. I don't think either are great, but modkilling is just a giant f you to the entire game and the mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 It's like, not even a freebie kill. We weren't going to accidentally hammer someone else, he was basically proven. Why do you care how he dies so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Because people modkilling themselves pisses me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurykins Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Because people modkilling themselves pisses me off. I understand that, but at the same time, your reactions to Shinori's actions seem more...aggressive than it needs to be. What's done is done. If you want to rag on him after the game's done, then by all means, feel free to do so. Otherwise, (at least to me) it's coming off as something a little more than "Grrr, someone just mod-killed himself". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Sooooooo.... I don't *like* Baldrick's reasoning, but I don't think his reasoning alone makes him scum and I think his teammates would have told him to not claim as he did if he's scum. Unless they're not allowed to talk to him after death. Augh, I don't know. Anyone else have an idea who they want to lynch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I've given my reasoning for Eury already, but... eh, I know how you felt relating to that At this point, everyone's used up their roles, so we just have to lynch the last scum and we win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I don't *like* Baldrick's reasoning, but I don't think his reasoning alone makes him scum and I think his teammates would have told him to not claim as he did if he's scum. Unless they're not allowed to talk to him after death. Augh, I don't know. Can we get an answer to this actually? Are dead mafia allowed to talk to living ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 That sounds like something you wouldn't be allowed to do, but then again I've never played scum in a mafia game before so I have no clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Can we get an answer to this actually? Are dead mafia allowed to talk to living ones?Guess whose going to be ambiguous me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Expected/10 Ugh, ok, so we have two trackers, two jailers, one voyeur, one follower, and one poisoner for claims, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 It depends on the mod, mostly. In Fakeclaim, I allowed dead mafia members to keep advising living ones, at the expense of not gaining graveyard access. If mafia deadtalk is allowed, then I think Scorri's point about Baldrick is a good one. BSing about how he was purposely waiting for reactions doesn't seem like something scum would have him do. It also makes me feel better about Scorri herself because I don't think that in this situation, she'd be looking to townread someone if she were scum, since the last scum needs to mislynch 2/5 remaining players, with one clear in here somewhere. So in that case I think the last remaining scum would be Poly, because two Trackers and a Follower and a Voyeur ridiculously outmatches a single Sneak. Mafia had a Driver, yeah, but that's sort of an unreliable counter, and I assume that people would be informed of getting redirected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 LAME Well Baldrick was voting Shinori for a while and also was the one to first bring up how Objection's D1 lynch reaction was forced so unless his strategy has just been to bus all his teammates, I think he's town anyways. From what I remember the last game he was scum (ATLA?) he didn't do this, and also I feel like generally his town play is a lot stronger than his scum play anyways because he doesn't like playing scum so he's unmotivated. @Scorri- I don't think Eury claimed explicitly at any point, but I got the implication she was Doc, not Jailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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