Shuuda Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Doesn't Weavile get Icicle Crash, which is better than Ice Punch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djing Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Refrigerate > Technician for Weavile imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Refrigerate > Technician for Weavile imo. But that'd be terrible. Ice Shard and Pursuit wouldn't get boosted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djing Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 But that'd be terrible. Ice Shard and Pursuit wouldn't get boosted. Use Quick Attack. Weavile would finally get a nuke against dragons. (Ice type Return) He already shits on Ghosts and Psychics with Knock off. Technician doesn't apply to boosted Pursuit anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) So people, how do you think a strategy like this would work? Infernape @Grip Claw Iron Fist 4HP/252Atk/252Spe Jolly -Mach Punch -Taunt -Swords Dance -Fire Spin So basically, you first use Fire Spin to trap the opponent, which should be a staller like Ferrothorn, then start setting up with Swords Dance, after which you sweep with a Mach Punch, which, while weak by itself, becomes something to be reckoned with after STAB, Iron Fist, and three Swords Dance boosts. Or if that isn't good (because Mach Punch still isn't *that* good and Infernape is frail), maybe Volcarona (Fire Spin + Quiver Dance) , Garchomp (Sand Tomb + Swords Dance), or Dragonite (Wrap + Dragon Dance + Extreme Speed) could do something similar? Edited January 7, 2014 by Fruity Insanity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Ice type return with the 30% bonus from refrigerate looks quite good, and quick attack would be better than ice shard. Yeah, i think for weavile refrigerate would be better than technician Edited January 7, 2014 by Nobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djing Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Also has potential for doubles with Fake Out and Feint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 So people, how do you think a strategy like this would work? it doesn't. you trap your opponent's counter most of the time, and a +6 mach punch is not very strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 it doesn't. you trap your opponent's counter most of the time, and a +6 mach punch is not very strong. So then... would Dragonite, Volcarona, or Garchomp do any better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 What do you guys think of Weavile as a Mega Garchomp counter? I know Togekiss is a good one, but I don't feel like making my buddy hatch me one. I've lost count of the Togekisses I OHKO'd with Stone Edge, plenty on a predicted switch-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 So then... would Dragonite, Volcarona, or Garchomp do any better? no, because you trap your opponent's counters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Ladder players, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-75760425 I hadn't seen a Deoxys offense team in a while; Deoxys-S and -D are both UU for some reason. I really hate these Deoxys/Bisharp teams, enough to speed creep my Heatran and Venusaur to outspeed max-invested Adamant Bisharp. I probably would have been forced to sacrifice a Pokemon to Bisharp if my opponent hadn't misplayed by sending in Bisharp early. I obviously shouldn't have used Air Slash on turn 2, but I wasn't able to hit the cancel button in time, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Everything pretty much is UU right now so yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Celebi @ Weakness Policy Ability: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 72 Spd / 184 Def Impish Nature - Swords Dance - Seed Bomb - Baton Pass - Recover This set I made is just... so good. People never see it coming and I always manage to pass something once per game. Weakness Policy goes great with Celebi's weaknesses and bulk. It goes really well with Talonflame especially. By the way, Ice Punch > Crunch on Lucario. Ice Punch allows him to kill more things, plus Crunch is not really good for Aegislash due to King's Shield. Edited January 8, 2014 by Chiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 So then... would Dragonite, Volcarona, or Garchomp do any better?What DonDon said. They would probably be better due to increased bulk and Dragonite has Extreme Speed, which seemed to me a big problem with Infernape. I'm not sure how Volcarona would do. If there's no investment in bulk, it might be prone to Extreme Speed Dragonite, too. Garchomp is scared of Ice Shard and choice scarf users. I'd say Dragonite is your best bet for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtSmilies Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I've lost count of the Togekisses I OHKO'd with Stone Edge, plenty on a predicted switch-in. Stone Edge? I run Iron Head on my Garchomps and I've found it works better. Especially when you've also got Tyranitar on your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Stone Edge? I run Iron Head on my Garchomps and I've found it works better. Especially when you've also got Tyranitar on your team. Garchomp + Scope Lens + Shadow Claw + Stone Edge + Earthquake + Outrage/Dragon Claw = best set ever. I love that 50% crit chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 focus energy sniper kingdra is actually the greatest thing in the universe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Stone Edge? I run Iron Head on my Garchomps and I've found it works better. Especially when you've also got Tyranitar on your team. Stone Edge also helps with Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Thundurus, Charizards, hurting balloon Heatrans harder, Mandibuzz, Dragonite (for non-dragon physical 'chomps only) and also injuring Rotom-W and Gliscor more than most other tools at your disposal. Stone Edge followed by Draco Meteor with a SpAtk investment has killed off Gliscors trying in vain to counter my Megachomp before. And if we talk about non-Togekiss fairies like Clefable and Sylveon, Earthquake does nearly the same damage as SE Iron Head anyway. Also, crit damage is crap in this generation so Scope Lens anything is a pretty bad gimmick IMHO. Edited January 8, 2014 by Espinosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 By the way, Ice Punch > Crunch on Lucario. Ice Punch allows him to kill more things, plus Crunch is not really good for Aegislash due to King's Shield. The idea is to hit Aegislash with an unboosted Crunch as it switches in (dealing 41.3% minimum to 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash). King's Shield only means you can't use SD as recklessly. Given that so many teams are weak to mixed Aegislash, it is preferable to have Pokemon capable of covering it when you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Stone Edge also helps with Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Thundurus, Charizards, hurting balloon Heatrans harder, Mandibuzz, Dragonite (for non-dragon physical 'chomps only) and also injuring Rotom-W and Gliscor more than most other tools at your disposal. Stone Edge followed by Draco Meteor with a SpAtk investment has killed off Gliscors trying in vain to counter my Megachomp before. And if we talk about non-Togekiss fairies like Clefable and Sylveon, Earthquake does nearly the same damage as SE Iron Head anyway. Also, crit damage is crap in this generation so Scope Lens anything is a pretty bad gimmick IMHO. Then, let us not forget about that 20% failure rate on Stone Edge. Not saying Stone edge should not be used over iron edge, I am merely making my general complaints about the accuracy failure in key points. Speaking of which is there really any general opinion about accuracy versus additional power? From my stand point, if you cannot guarantee something to work it is not a very reliable strategy. Especially since in the cases of say Gengar where it would OHKO Tyranitar if Focus Blast hits, but dies by OHKO should the move miss. In general, I would prefer the flamethrower over fire blast mentality. BUt, everything in pokemon since the phy/spe attack split seems to be super focused on high power. A stall team is pretty rare to find these days. Edited January 8, 2014 by Eri's Ire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I dunno. The hyper offensive metagame of gen V seems to have toned down a bit this gen. Stalling is more common now, although perhaps not everywhere. And it feels like Stone Edge misses whenever I need it to hit, but hits when I can afford a miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Aegislash-related mindgames can be pretty fun. It's like rock/paper/scissors. The safest way to use Aegislash is to switch into things it walls hard though, and then wreck its counters switching in with Shadow Ball and Flash Cannon/Secret Sword. Then, let us not forget about that 20% failure rate on Stone Edge. Speaking of which is there really any general opinion about accuracy versus additional power? From my stand point, if you cannot guarantee something to work it is not a very reliable strategy. Especially since in the cases of say Gengar where it would OHKO Tyranitar if Focus Blast hits, but dies by OHKO should the move miss. It can miss, but when it connects at the right time you get yourself a kill. It also crits slightly more often fwiw. Have you ever played competitive GSC? Waiting for crits / other procs to kick in is essentially the main way you take down walls like Snorlax. You keep luring it in, possibly into one layer of Spikes, chip at it, try to paralyse it, keep working on it against the Leftovers recovery, try to predict better than your opponent and eventually you might get yourself a dead Snorlax - or one that's out of PP. Zapdos can totally finish Lax off with Thunder if you're patient enough. I think you're referring to risk management and move accuracies is one way to go about that. With Gengar, you are likely to die to Pursuit should you try to run away from T-tar, so it's best to stay in. You could try your luck with Focus Blast (if you run it, you use it, just depends when), or you could go for Destiny Bond if you have that move. Maybe try putting up a Sub and see if T-tar even has any dark-type moves? There's lots of variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 is there no value in crits piercing stat changes? like, a +3 crit kingdra can spam draco meteor forever withou caring about stat drops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 is there no value in crits piercing stat changes? like, a +3 crit kingdra can spam draco meteor forever withou caring about stat drops That's true now that you mention it. Still you do sacrifice a different item you could have run and Focus Energy takes a precious turn to take effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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