link arena Fire Emblem Link Arena Discussion Topic

[Refa]

What about if Nihil couldn't be paired with any other skill? Nasir is ridiculous mostly because he has 25 SP on top of Nihil, and a Nihil team would have less in the way of skills to call on and so be less likely to beat a team that relies on strong units and supports.

Could work maybe? I dunno, you'd need to test it out.

[Ema Skye]

Regarding Nasir, I think banning him (or Ena) is the worst possible route. I'd rather limit them (perhaps restricting them to only 25 SP of skills) so we can keep the character in the metagame.

It's not like FE9 has a lot of choice when it comes to characters, so the more characters we can keep in the game, the better imo.

[dondon151]

Regarding Nasir, I think banning him (or Ena) is the worst possible route. I'd rather limit them (perhaps restricting them to only 25 SP of skills) so we can keep the character in the metagame.

It's not like FE9 has a lot of choice when it comes to characters, so the more characters we can keep in the game, the better imo.

why? i'm not convinced by this reasoning. excluding a ban just to keep a character in the metagame is not an argument. there is no intrinsic value to having another character in a metagame.

Edited March 12, 2014 by dondon151

[Baldrick]

The more viable options there are, the less predictable the metagame is and so it is less monotonous. Which is why I am in favour of weakening Nasir so that he's an option but not dominant. Like in a similar situation to Tauroneo.

@refa: we could organise a game to test it. Pitting a team with Callil and Nasir against a team that uses supports / strong units.

[General Horace]

i do have a team I wanted to use in the tourney but i'm meeting an unfourtunate end now, so I'd be up for raging and facing an nihil team with said team if someone could host

i dunno how strong it would be considered to be though.

[AnonymousSpeed]

I would be able to consider hosting, but I may not be able to regularly do hosty-things.

[dondon151]

The more viable options there are, the less predictable the metagame is and so it is less monotonous.

you have made the assumption that the existence of one option is inherently viable and also doesn't affect the viability of other options. you have also somehow come to the conclusion that the inclusion of a watered down unit measurably has an impact on how predictable or monotonous a metagame will be.

i believe your assumption erroneous and your conclusion unfounded.

EDIT: clearly we don't actually care about maximizing the number of usable units, otherwise we would be doing whatever necessary to make terrible units like soren and tormod useful. so i don't buy the argument that nasir should not be banned because having many units in a metagame is a good thing.

Edited March 12, 2014 by dondon151

[Baldrick]

I'll have a look at it. As long as it's reasonably strong it should be alright.

Curse you Anon. I guess having multiple hosts wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Nicolas]

I've hear that after FE9 SF cup we'll have FE5 SF cup.

Is that true?

[Psych]

Fire Emblem Link Arena Balance Patch 1.2

Nasir

Nasir's power is too much for a laguz with Nihil. In exchange, we're making him unable to transform, unless he enters a lot of combat.

Gauge per turn -> 0

Calil

Calill's magic chip is too strong for the resources required to make her a good unit combined with her Nihil. We're looking to make her more of a risky pick.

Hit lowered by 30

Tanith

We like the direction her Reinforce is taking her, and want to buff that to make more of a niche pick.

The amount of units summoned during Reinforce is doubled. Ex: 2 Falconknights and 4 Pegasus Knights

Shade

What the hell does this thing even do?

Shade has been removed

Provoke

See Shade

Provoke has been removed

Runesword

We think the regen from Runesword is a bit strong especially for units who aren't supposed to be mages.

Health returned on attack is now equal to ¼ of the damage done, down from ½.

Nosferatu

We think Runesword is too strong, but we're fine with being hypocritical and buffing Rhys.

Health returned on attack is now equal to damage done, up from ½.

Stealing

We're making the thieves pure gimmick troll picks, since their combat sucks anyway.

​Volke and Sothe can now steal.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Psych

[General Horace]

ill send my team to both baldo and anon, and honestly refa doesn't have to be the one to make a nihil team with calill and nasir unless he REALLY wants it

[Randa]

Fire Emblem Link Arena Balance Patch 1.2

Nasir

Nasir's power is too much for a laguz with Nihil. In exchange, we're making him unable to transform, unless he enters a lot of combat.

Gauge per turn -> 0

Calil

Calill's magic chip is too strong for the resources required to make her a good unit combined with her Nihil. We're looking to make her more of a risky pick.

Hit lowered by 30

Tanith

We like the direction her Reinforce is taking her, and want to buff that to make more of a niche pick.

The amount of units summoned during Reinforce is doubled. Ex: 2 Falconknights and 4 Pegasus Knights

Shade

What the hell does this thing even do?

Shade has been removed

Provoke

See Shade

Provoke has been removed

Runesword

We think the regen from Runesword is a bit strong especially for units who aren't supposed to be mages.

Health returned on attack is now equal to ¼ of the damage done, down from ½.

Nosferatu

We think Runesword is too strong, but we're fine with being hypocritical and buffing Rhys.

Health returned on attack is now equal to damage done, up from ½.

Stealing

We're making the thieves pure gimmick troll picks, since their combat sucks anyway.

​Volke and Sothe can now steal.

Are these actually happening?

[General Horace]

im pretty sure its a joke.

[Espinosa]

Tanith

We like the direction her Reinforce is taking her, and want to buff that to make more of a niche pick.

The amount of units summoned during Reinforce is doubled. Ex: 2 Falconknights and 4 Pegasus Knights

Also, Runesword and Nosferatu always recover full HP. Runesword would be a pretty bad weapon if that weren't the case.

A lot of good points have been brought up and I feel some definitely deserve commenting, but I'll try to do that a little later. Thanks for the feedback on the problematic aspects of FE9 LA so far everyone, the generated discussion and opinions have been useful!

[Psych]

im pretty sure its a joke.

it's ok, i'm the balance team

I just checked Rhys caps and wow even if you attempt to have him Nosfertank as you would Runesword, his speed cap is awful, and requires 2 speed wings and both drops and is still then weighted down by 5 to 20 speed by Nosferatu. Bottom tier.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Psych

[Psych]

double post whoops

Edited March 12, 2014 by Psych

[Espinosa]

I'm thinking we should unban IkexOscar, and maybe even Ragnell, after the tourney. We already have a very good idea of what teams could be built in absence of this support, and Ike being connected to Oscar enables some interesting support-based teams that weren't a very good idea previously, like Ike-Elincia-Geoffrey()-Kieran-Oscar(-Ike), with Elincia guarding Ike, Kieran and Geoffrey from crits, and Geoffrey protects Kieran too - a nice counter to brother bond crithax teams.

We could also start integrating unused supports into the meta, playing a few games where we seriously evaluate how good these supports are and broadening the number of options available. A list of all supports with a write-up could prove useful.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Espinosa

[Psych]

I know this is premature, but looking at FE10, I feel Laguz royals and Trueblades should probably end up banned. Their speed caps are just too restricting and basically prevent almost anyone else from use. Mages are also in serious hurt so something might want to be buffed to them or something like that.

Another idea is to ban mastery skills since I vaguely remember there was discussion over them too.

[Vennobennu]

On that note: how would Corrosion be handled? Unless it completely destroys the target's weapon on proc, or just always activates on every hit (could be neat for a Brave user), I can't see it being worth 10 SP. Even skill-heavy teams probably have Guard/Vantage/Counter/Occult to take up space.

[PKL]

I wanna try something else first. An FE9 meta with Tier 2 FE10 exclusive characters. Skills adapted for FE9, masteries wouldnt exist. Caps the same as FE9 and bringing stuff like the Fortune skill over.

[General Horace]

i think unbanning ike/oscar is fine tbh, and i've been wanting to see/take part in a game with the unused supports for a while, it opens up a lot more team options

[Psych]

I wanna try something else first. An FE9 meta with Tier 2 FE10 exclusive characters. Skills adapted for FE9, masteries wouldnt exist. Caps the same as FE9 and bringing stuff like the Fortune skill over.

I'd be up for that. How would something like Laura or Meg be handled, since females have different caps in 10 but there's no one to compare them against for 9? Or something totally unique, like Micaiah or Rogues?

[PKL]

i think unbanning ike/oscar is fine tbh, and i've been wanting to see/take part in a game with the unused supports for a while, it opens up a lot more team options

It isn't. The reason it was banned is because even forges are middling in accuracy against them both, theyre splashable into any team and are both really bulky.

I'd be up for that. How would something like Laura or Meg be handled, since females have different caps in 10 but there's no one to compare them against for 9? Or something totally unique, like Micaiah or Rogues?

Now that you mention it, yeah, Idk what we'd do about those unique classes. But perhaps we can think something up or just not use them and only use the ones that are in existing classes.

[Espinosa]

WRT Corrosion: I think the only reason to use it is if it entirely breaks the equipped weapon (not sure if you can counter with the next one, and currently have no way of checking this ingame). Making it a skill that always procs seems like a bit too much like fan fiction, but it's hard to say where we should draw the line.

How can we bring RD units into PoR when they can support absolutely everybody in RD? I say we take the PoR mechanics into RD instead.

Also, Trueblades' AS isn't the only problematic point. The bird Laguz double Trueblades and everyone else, for instance, and there are no Laguzguards in sight either.

[Psych]

Right now I don't think there's an issue. Nolan has a higher Resistance cap in FE9 Warrior than he would in 10, so that would have to be calculated as if he didn't. Bishops have lower caps in 9, but genders are the same except for 2 points in defense and resistance, but because no stats go above 30 for Beorc except Luck and HP it should be fine.

I'll try and maybe make a spread sheet to find out the level 20 averages for them and give it to you and Espinosa if we want it for records.

I'll try and see how custom classes like Rogues and Light Sage will work, as well as Dark Sage, but for now it should be okay. I'm a bit concerned if we do this though, because then we should switch Brom to an Axe Armor since he doesn't use lances and I think it should be fair for him, Tauroneo, and Gatre as that way you have more differentiation between the 4 armors. I think we could probably make Sanaki into a Sage or something, comparative to the Archsage/Apostle caps and give her Light access too.

WRT Corrosion: I think the only reason to use it is if it entirely breaks the equipped weapon (not sure if you can counter with the next one, and currently have no way of checking this ingame). Making it a skill that always procs seems like a bit too much like fan fiction, but it's hard to say where we should draw the line.

How can we bring RD units into PoR when they can support absolutely everybody in RD? I say we take the PoR mechanics into RD instead.

Also, Trueblades' AS isn't the only problematic point. The bird Laguz double Trueblades and everyone else, for instance, and there are no Laguzguards in sight either.

Probably either artificially lower the laguz caps, make transformation bonuses more similar to FE9, or some third option. We can also bring over the Items if we need to, but that makes Nullify less useful as it's a Full Guard that takes up Gauge.

We could probably come up with a list of logical supports the majority agrees on, since things like Micaiah/Sothe, Laura/Aran, and Edward/Leonardo would make sense.

The Dawn Brigade items might need looking at now that I think about it.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Psych