Healer Mafia - D6 ends on Dec. 15 at 8:00 PM HST

[Vhaltz]

the notion that bbm is overly focused on the "catching scum in RVS" is weird when he's made all of two posts about it and one was a response to something addressed to him. bbm is posting like he does when he's scum though. imo!

Why aren't you pursuing this then? I don't understand why you'd keep your vote on SB as it is instead of voting for whom you seem to be pretty sure is scum.

-----------------

This concludes what I had in my thoughts QT around 12 hours from now, I had to re-type it up properly since it was mostly just bullet points but w/e. This was up to... post #98 by SB, I'll probably say so at the beginning of the post as well but again w/e. Updating from there.

Refa's latest post discussed a few of the things that irked me about Shinori that I had discarded in lieu of there being many other scummier people (I haven't been in that many big games but I figure 5 scum would be one too many). I find myself nodding along with his points and the priority of Shinori > SB and voteswitch feels genuine given the weight of both cases, which feels like he's likelier to be town now. The only thing that still irks me about him is his buddy-ish interactions with BBM in that post, but if I had to choose among BBM and Refa for a lynch I'd definitely lynch BBM over Refa, so I don't feel too inclined to lynch him anymore without getting BBM's flip first.

Kirsche shares quite a number of my points of view including SB's coaching thing, the Kay OMGUS thing and the Eury being scummy thing. It feels like there's too many coincidences in trains of thought for a single post at pretty much the same time in the game as I wrote up mine. Leaning town atm, probably townier than Kay but less town than SB.

Kind of dislike Protown SK (Elieson?) but I suspect it's confirmation bias due to his "nothing is happening" complaint coupled with lack of proactivity ED1.

Prims, why did you call SB out for empty posts ED1 but ignored Elieson doing the same (and worse)?

Priority update goes:

Scorri >> BBM/Eury >>>> Shinori > Rest.

Slightly paranoid about lynching BBM since Prims isn't reading town so far and he's cheering on meta suspicion towards him, and if I'm reading correctly there may be meta shenanigans regarding why Eury's post is the way it is, so I'd still like Scorri lynched the most. Nobody seems to be paying him any attention at all for some reason.

##Vote: Scorri

[Zkirsche]

Oh derp.

Refa isn't voting SB, Shinori is voting GB.

Think that's right.

[Vhaltz]

Just a warning, I'm aware that my way of writing cases has upset some people I've played with in the past, so I just want to clarify that I have no problem whatsoever with anybody playing the game. I hope I get along with the playerbase here and that it's all the fun game it's supposed to be \o/

If the line begins to blur to the point where somebody feels kind of disrespected or something similar do let me know ASAP.

Anyway, if anybody has anything they want answered ASAP I can try, I'll be checking the thread every now and then until I go to bed in an hour and a half or so, but otherwise I have to shower, make and eat dinner and prepare a bunch of stuff for tomorrow so I don't think I'll be able to check mafia properly again for quite a bunch of hours.

[Percivalé]

I'm feeling better. After my rehearsal/class I'm going to reread and put together something more coherent, although I don't think there's much else that I have to say that I haven't already said yet. I might voteswitch but we'll see.

spoiler below bc it has nothing to do with the actual game. @Vhaltz

Just a warning, I'm aware that my way of writing cases has upset some people I've played with in the past, so I just want to clarify that I have no problem whatsoever with anybody playing the game. I hope I get along with the playerbase here and that it's all the fun game it's supposed to be \o/

If the line begins to blur to the point where somebody feels kind of disrespected or something similar do let me know ASAP.

I've had people tell me before that I'm hard to talk to/play with because of my anxiety so I guess I should say that as long as you don't call me useless or an idiot, even in the context of the game, everything's good. And I mean those words specifically. & don't do anything with the intention of humiliating me/proving a point by humiliating me, but I know no one really does that intentionally. Also if you make a case on me it might take me a while to respond if it's long, because arguing makes me tired lol but I'm trying to learn how to work around these things better. It's nice to have you around! C:

[Shin]

There are a lot of things you can say about me, but saying that I haven't responded to the votes on me is an absolute lie, especially considering that I responded to one of them in the post I attacked Refa (which is scummy why?)

Most of your replies are "why am I scummy", despite all votes, sans Bizz, having a fairly solid basis. Your case on Refa is that he posted a list of votals shortly after RVS and apparently not doing much else. You said yourself you really didn't have a basis to vote for him before that. It's funny how votals, which actually kinda helped, were enough for you to say he's faking activity.

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

Ultra-defensive and basically trying to get the attention on somebody else! Nice try, SB!

[charlie_]

Shin, are you saying that scumhunting is trying to push attention onto other people? In that case, everyone is guilty of it.

[charlie_]

Also Vhaltz am I town just because of the super quick wagon on me or what?

[Percivalé]

##Unvote

this wagon is kinda starting to make me feel uncomfortable. also I tried a million times to explain why I voted him, I don't know what makes "good" ED1 logic I guess??

I don't want to empty unvote but I don't have the time to provide a vote with reasons until I get back. ##Vote: BBM though, I like this and I already partially stated why but I'll elaborate later.

[Percivalé]

OH I HOPE THAT DIDN'T SOUND PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE I just legitimately don't know what people want from me because they keep calling my vote bad even after I tried to explain it but I'll get over it.

[Vhaltz]

I probably should've clarified that I'm throwing a townread your way in the sense that I don't want you lynched atm, but I don't intend to hold onto it as a clear for the whole game, eventually I'll get a proper read on you aside from this issue.

When I started playing I saw making D1 scum lynches happen being thrown around as a difficult challenge left to chance, so I payed a lot of attention to scum wagons and town wagons D1 to try and tell the difference between them. Since then I tend to scrutinize midD1 pretty heavily whenever I'm playing a game from the beginning to check for subtle differences on how town wagons build up and scum wagons build up, I guess you could call it wagon development analysis or something like that. It's not just how you got suddenly quickwagoned but also how the majority of the players were focused on the single issue of the coaching thing and nobody seemed to be stopping the growing suspicion over it, it's hard to explain. Most of the time I just call it gut but chances are people don't listen to me if I do that so...

[scorri]

Right. First to discuss what other people have said about me:

First is scorri, who has little to no content to their name other than an SB vote built entirely on parroting of earlier reasons for the wagon (writing up a big paragraph on it when just saying "I agree that this is scummy" after quoting the earlier arguments would've made no difference). His scumreads at that point amounted to all three popular targets (SB, Shinori and Venno) which is way too convenient. His only posts afterwards are two token comments that don't seem to go anywhere. Feels like scum coasting by under the radar and parking their vote on a convenient spot.

Yeah, I don't have a lot of content, it's true. I also don't have a lot of time. I'm currently in grad school for Chemical Engineering nearing the end of a semester. I'm making as much time for the game as possible, but I had two homeworks due today and a paper due next Monday. Which means that I won't be around as much as everyone else. This is fairly common for me, ask anyone. Also I'm a girl. No offense taken, just letting you know for future posts.

Next, on to my reads. Why is it so terrible that I share the same views as other people? Would you rather that I try to make a BS case on someone that no one else thinks is scummy? I voted SB because I thought his vote on Venn was bad when his post was saying Kay was scummy, that what Venn originally did wasn't scummy but that something else he did was sorta scummy. I don't agree that an empty unvote by a new player in RVS is something that's scummy and I think that SB was pushing a weak case. So I voted him for it.

As for my read on Shinori, at that point in time, one person had a serious vote on him and their reasons were completely different from my reasons for finding him scummy. So no, he wasn't a popular case then. As for Venn, I had weird vibes about him for his vote on me that I still do. He hasn't appeared since that vote on me, so he hasn't had a chance to explain why he voted me over other people and until he does, my vibes probably aren't going to go away. So yeah he may have been a popular wagon, but I had unique reasons for finding him scummy.

Right, now onto other things.

SB is continuing to ping me. He backed off of the Kay thing pretty quickly and then votes Refa for not finding anything wrong with Venn's unvote and also for making votals. But then he later starts to back off that Refa read without really explaining why but doesn't bother unvoting.

Shinori's not doing much to help his case tbh. He has a lot of vague "I don't like this person's vote" and is harping a lot on a joke RVS vote.

Vhaltz seems pretty solid to me and I look forward to seeing more from you. Even if I disagree with your reasons for calling me scummy, I don't think that your case in and of itself is scummy.

Besides that, not much is sticking out, but I'll try to do a more indepth read later.

[Eurykins]

Eury is posting very little this game, it entertains me to see such a vast difference in her past games lately. *Poke*

Agree with people that Eury should do more scumhunting. Imo forced reads are the worst so I'm going to

##Unvote

##Vote:Eurykins

If you don't mind, please go back over what I posted earlier in #73.

Blah. Ate bad food last night, stomach's paying for it now. ;x

I was concentrating on not losing whatever food I was eating the rest of the afternoon/night, as well as having a bleeding eye late last night. I apologize that it's affected my posting amount in this thread.

Eury seems to be kind forcing a lot of opinions, not really too happy with it.

eury's post is not good. we don't need to know if you're neutral on some guy unless he's a high priority lynch target or somebody explicitly asks you, just say what's important. based on past experiences with her i'm inclined to say it's :badplay: and null but still, step it up

My post was in response to Venn's request for thoughts/reads on what was happening at the time. So I was scrounging up what I could based on what posts were there from early D1, which wasn't a whole lot of, but I'll do what I can to refine my thoughts on others in a bit.

scorri hasn't posted yet; Eurykins, Shin and Kirsche have yet to make a non-RVS post. Do y'all have any views? Personally, I don't have a solid read either way on anybody besides what I've already mentioned, but it's starting to get weird that they haven't contributed at all.

--- (Now to side thoughts, after getting some replies out of the way)

And I'm sorry that I didn't like a vote that didn't actually state reasons for why they were seriously voting said person in a post. It seemed kind of empty on the reasoning department, but I hear they might be getting funds in the near future.

I don't know if it's just me, but his retort rubbed me the wrong way- has a fairly snide tone in it. Keeping my vote on him for now.

[Refa]

Refa prims said the exact same thing why aren't you asking him (hint he's better at explaining meta than I am......)

Make it happen, mafia sucks.

This actually caused me to lol, but I'm talking about how SB remarked that your read on him is waffly.

I believe his case was that I was waffling because I didn't find scum intent in all of his posts, which is perfectly natural because scum don't ooze scum intent from all of their posts.

Venno, despite being the centre of this mess has actually done very little. His posts are horribly empty and he's quite happy to let people argue around him. Having no reads and voting on someone who'd said nothing at that point is really bad. Plus, asking people for their opinions when they're inevitably going to post is filler.

##Unvote

##Vote: Vennobennu

I don't like this Venno vote. You're complaining that he voted for someone who's said nothing, but then you're voting for him because he...hasn't said much of anything. Also asking people for their opinions helps generate interest, so I really don't see where the scum intent is in that.

Objection's opinions post is pretty bad imo considering most of it isn't actually reads, I guess you could count the ones on me/Vennu as reads but then he dresses up his Vennu vote as a prodvote. I don't really care if he acknowledges the hypocrisy, in that case couldn't town be doing the prodvotes too? Probably my biggest scumread right now.

OK, I can agree with the logic behind this (wouldn't make MY biggest scumread, but w/e), but if he is your biggest scumread, why aren't you voting for him? I hope you have a good reason for this!

Also some general comments to wrap this block of quotes up.

-I don't like Shin's initial case on SB, especially how he misreps SB's actions. And then his vote on SB reads like a self fulfilling prophecy, which is that he's ultra defensive. I don't get how that's a scum tell, and I think early on town generally tends to be more defensive than scum.

-I like Vhaltz's read posts as a whole, so I'm just going to list off my cons rather than saying I AGREE WITH THIS a lot of times. OK, I can agree scorri not being on is bad, but from personal experience she's done it as town as well and eh...I dunno, having a lurker as your #1 scumread seems kind of...I hesitate to say lazy but...perhaps indecisive. Also not really bothered by Elieson (yeah, Protown SK) and I'm not quite sure why you are either except confirmation bias. Explain??

Anyways, lynch priority atm is...

Shinori > Shin > Objection > Everyone Else

OK, I know this sounds bad, but I'm honestly not sure which of Shin/Shinori bothers me more atm. :\ And I guess I'll have to listen to Prim's amazing meta read on BBM so that I can understand...the truth!!...!

[Prims]

##Unvote

##Vote: Objection!!

okay so why is this joker doing the exact same thing eury did when people have already complained about eury's posts. he's also voting venno over a question and not a scum read which is laughable and i think the "self-awareness" is more likely to come from scum nervous about being called out #ArmchairPsychology101

SB if Objection's your biggest scumread then why aren't you voting him......

Vhaltz sucks for suspecting Eury but being OK with Objection who is doing the same things but worse. Also he's putting too much thought into an offhand remark I made about a gut read. SB struck me as worse than Elie because Elie's questions read like he thought they'd get something done at least.

scorri is like hard town lol. This is a meta read though.

[Refa]

Prims, why is BBM playing into his scum meta?

[Prims]

Spending more time fussing over details and responding to people than analyzing people's motivations and churning out thoughts.

[Vhaltz]

Apologies for the gender mistake, I'm used to playing in a forum with 99% male players.

@Refa Elieson bugs me due to their way of running through ED1 complaining about lack of content and doing nothing to generate any of their own. Don't think it's scummy per se once I think about it properly because scum seeking to lengthen RVS by not contributing would just lurk through it or encourage jokes instead of making it painfully obvious that they're intentionally not contributing. I figure it's a playstyle/tone issue but it's still making it harder for me to read their posts to the point where I tend to skim them instead of reading in-depth like everybody else's. Honestly Prims bugs me more than Elieson atm but I want to see more posts from Prims and reread him along with Elieson, Shin, Shinori and Objection before I dive into that.

Scorri's latest post looks good at first glance (and I see that I did make some mistakes due to posting from thread memory at times) but I should be in bed right now. I don't think they're in any danger of getting lynched for meta reasons apparently so I will postpone my conclusion until tomorrow.

@Prims Objection has to wait for tomorrow. His reads post wasn't up when I wrote over half of that wall.

Sleeptime, definitely not getting out of bed to check mafia.

[charlie_]

Of course I have a good reason! ...I forgot to switch gg me.

##Unvote

##Vote: Objection

I have a reason that isn't to do with in thread (well kind of) for unvoting Refa and I'm not really gonna say more on that unless I claim or something. Find me scummy for it w/e but I have a reason. At least I hope so.

Eury, are you keeping your Shinori vote down for tone or is there something else in that post you don't like?

[Vennobennu]

Sorry for not posting lately everyone, I've been busy for the last day and a half. Should be able to be more active for the next week or so.

It's rather baffling that Shin would put focus on me and vote, then switch over to SB even though I hadn't addressed his points yet, without explaining why he thought I wasn't worth voting for anymore. As for my being 'content to let others argue', well for one I've been busy (this being Shin's first non-RVS post in the thread, I'm sure he could sympathize), and second, I didn't see anything to add to the issue, so much as a bad ED1 joke can be an issue. I explained my thoughts on it; at that point in the game it was either be thin on content or make up an argument - I didn't want to say anything that I couldn't solidly justify, so I didn't.

Vague scummy vibe from Shin, but I'd like him to explain his logic before I make any conclusions.

Other thoughts:

Grassbridger has exactly one semi-serious post, pretty much a 'what do you want, there's nothing to say'. Hasn't been online since yesterday afternoon, but I don't like his lack of activity combined with the fact that he's mostly gone unnoticed since then. At this point in D1, that's a bad sign.

SB's odd reluctance to address his focus on Kay over Polydeuces, I think his defence of his actions is genuine. His early vote for me was reasonable at the time, given what he had to work with (didn't agree with it obvs, but I understand the logic). I don't think all his actions are consistent with scum, and the wagon on him now doesn't feel so for now I'll say he's town.

Scorri: My vote for her was mostly to prod her into a serious post, as her lack of real activity was suspicious to me. Now she's appeared and explained, and the explanations she's offered seem to honestly represent her motivations. Votes + suspicions read like townie reasoning, so I feel comfortable in backing off my vote now.

Vhaltz offers detailed opinions of most of the people in the game. Nothing in his posts strikes me as scummy, but mentioning suspicious of Eury only to qualify it immediately after...well, it doesn't help much.

Shinori's reads are pretty waffly; there's a lot of explaining, but very little definite opinions on the other players in the game. Not offering much to object to or that could be construed as a definite scum/town read, and has almost only commented on Grassbridger and the coaching. Imo, he could be a scum trying to appear to give reads without actually contributing.

In terms of overall priority, I'm leaning Shinori>Shin>>>>>Grassbridger>Everyone.

I don't have any really strong scum readings. Don't have any meta on anybody here, which is probably making it more difficult.

##Unvote

Scorri's latest post has satisfied me that she's probably not scum.

[Vennobennu]

And yeah it is a bit waffly of me to not have a vote going, but honestly I can't decide who to vote for right now :/.

[Eurykins]

Eury, are you keeping your Shinori vote down for tone or is there something else in that post you don't like?

1. His first two three posts were, quite frankly, useless. No RVS vote incorporated into any one of them, either, which seemed a bit derpy (nothing to start the ball rolling).

2. Votes Grass and incorporates "Logic" into it (I was guessing it was his half-trolling/joking RVS post, but later he says it's actually a 'semi-serious' vote).

3. Garbles about Poly's sig and Bizz.

4. His comment to my vote- "You gotta do better than that, Eury"- struck me as both arrogant and condescending, along with his latest comment/post that I quoted earlier.

Though I agree with Grass opinion regarding Grass's earlier response being defensive, Shinori's actions/posting in itself have been quirky. He's seemingly posting frequently, but not much (productivity wise) is coming out of it. That, and his tone itself also sits ill with me.

[BBM]

I want Bizz to give a reason for why I'm suspicious. She said that she partially did, except she didn't. She said that she agrees that I'm posting to my scum meta, but then when someone asked her what that scum meta was, she redirected them to Prims.

@Vhaltz- Coaching isn't always scum-scum. In fact it rarely is because scum can coach scum out of the thread; they have no reason to do it inside. More often you see scum coaching newbtown in-thread because it looks like you're being helpful and stuff, and it also lets you buddy up with a townie whose opinion you can easily influence on account of them being new. But you're not really helping catch scum. Like me in Chilean with Mancer, though I suppose you wouldn't know that game.

I don't like how two of Vhaltz's suspicions (Refa and me) go "X is doing this, which is nice but could be faked." It feels like an attempt to ignore the townier things people are doing and only focus on the aspects of their play that he wants to. And nor are there really any reasons presented in either case for why it could be faked, or for whether or not it is more likely to be real or fake. He just sort of handwaves that stuff and then concludes with a suspicion based on other stuff. Also his SB townread is literally just "since most people are attacking him for the same reason he must be town". Except that is basically the case with most D1 wagons, and D1 wagons can hit scum too.

[Prims]

Apologies for the gender mistake, I'm used to playing in a forum with NekoRex.

same

bbm:

- is bizz mafia?

- why's vhaltz less scummy than your current vote?

venn if you do have some sort of suspicion then leaving your vote empty is useless. just vote shinori, it's not like you can't change it later. also get an avatar because Fuck Noavi's

Not seeing the Shinori wagon right now, his actual thoughts have been OK. Only problem I have with him is leaving the Grassbridger vote down when he suspected the people jumping on Kay. He called out SB for not voting Kay, why's he safe from the same sketchy priorities? However I am frustrated because I have a history of literally only reading Shinori as town when he's scum.

I could actually see Kay as scum after re-reading her because her reaction to Polydeuces is totally on the defensive. Since she was OK with BBM in the same post it reads like she just needed a new place to put her vote. Kay, can you expand on why you think Poly is deserving of a lynch?

I dunno if I already said this but right now SB just seems like "the dude who got wagonned ED1". He could still be mafia but I have a hard time blaming him for any of his recent posts.

[Vennobennu]

Hmm. I suppose there's something to that logic.

Between Shinori and Shin, I think they're both suspicious, but Shin is putting forth opinions and votes, and arguing for them. It's more than I can say for Shinori. This may be subject to change depending on their responses to all this, though.

##Votalize: Shinori

(Also, in case I don't post again later tonight, I'll be indisposed tomorrow until mid-afternoon. Definitely will check in before the day's over.)

[BBM]

As I said earlier, I don't think Bizz is mafia. The main difference I noticed between her play in SFMM3 and other games is that she was a lot more cautious with her reads in SFMM3, whereas when she's town she basically just says whatever she thinks about anything without caring as much how it looks. I feel like her play this game is pretty close to the latter.

Kay didn't really respond to my vote about why it was scummy for me to not talk about Venno and okay for everyone else to also not talk about him. And then her Poly suspicion is kind of weak. All it really is is "what you said is wrong" without really looking for scum intent of any sort. I think Vhaltz's style of argument and ignoring what he wants to is suspicious but he at least is explaining the scum intent that he sees overall in people's posts.

Prims, why is Objection's padded list of reads worse than Eury's? You commented on Eury's, but you didn't vote her for it.