Inception Mafia

[Parrhesia]

The story so far.

##Unvote (Prims)
##Vote: Manix

Not a townie use of tailor at all because fake reports are just kinda inconvenient for mafia but can waste town investigative role's nights, which isn't a good tradeoff. If you're going to out "hey i tailored this guy" then mafia will know not to trust a report on them anyway, so why even bother? Screwing a mafia rolecop out of knowing a role is way less valuable than screwing a town cop out of a guilty report. The masstailor in particular is pretty bad because that's an assured waste of a cop's legitimate report, which for all you know could be on mafia that you prevent an actual check on if you're town, which I find doubtful atm

also @rein: if this isn't a townie use of the tailor role, then what is? what else can I physically do with my role that I did not already describe in my opener? tell me that.

also further to the point of "i like my vote", notice how rein thinks i'm mafia just after my claim. it's far too easy to jump on it because tailor is a common scum role, and only cares about it screwing up cop reports, instead of taking it for what its actual use is: a proving role.

This was the only development so far. I decided Rein came off worse in it, so I voted for him at the time.

Bizz is also a likely scum candidate.

random thought: prims how did you think of the redirecting problem with my role so quickly, considering no one else had thought of it, namely rein, who had been pushing my case?

Basically Prims's whole shtick feels like fearmongering to me and reminds me of a time Manix claimed third party and he tried to get everyone believe he was SK and lynch him. He also doesn't seem like he wants to lynch Manix because he is scum but just because "ït would be beneficial to town" and that is like a HUGE Primscumtell to me I guess. Maybe I'm just dumb though.

Then this thread showed up, and I read the posts, and I felt Prims came off slightly worse in them. So I dropped my Rein vote and went to someone who seemed marginally more suss.

parrhesia is reading as opportunistic to me ATM. could just be returning stuff but I'm not a fan

Later, Reinfleche calls me out because I've admitted there's nothing to go on and, as later stated openly by me, I don't trust myself to be useful pursuing inquiries at this stage of the game.

Furet is bugging me, their response to Rein was awfully defensive and I dn't know where his prims vote came from.

When I say that I'm not scum, people say I'm defensive. For not having just let myself get bandwagoned and killed.

Furet's response to Rein would be really bad to me (and his response to Prims too) but his defenses also read to me like someone entirely unused to mafia considering he hasn't played in 100 years and I don't find what he's said scummy because of that u__u

Some of the people defending me hinge their defence on 'maybe he's just shit'.

Then Eurykins accuses me for essentially no reason. This is dismissed by basically the entire thread. I lay a pressure post on the Objection, then it becomes obvious nobody will join me in this and it isn't a thing anyone has done in years, so I drop it. The Objection decides he doesn't like me and takes a massive shit on his keyboard and posts it.

Today hasn't been a great day and that pushed me over the edge a little. Hence basically the past two pages.

[Zkirsche]

Hhi I'm procrastinating.

@Furet: By overly defensive I meant it felt that you were overreacting. I guess it is your meta but I still think you were/are blowing things out of proportion a bit. This wagon on you that you desperately needed to stop never happened.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Scorri only vote Rein because he hadn't come up with any new opinions? Why drop your vote when he hasn't answered the crime you originally accused him of? Feels like a wagon hop.

Rein > Scorri > Furet

[scorri]

What? No. I voted him because his Furet vote was bad. Like... real bad.

[scorri]

Err, not vote, case. And I moved cause objection was worse.

[Parrhesia]

@Furet: By overly defensive I meant it felt that you were overreacting. I guess it is your meta but I still think you were/are blowing things out of proportion a bit. This wagon on you that you desperately needed to stop never happened.

I think it's been established I start to panic when votes are cast down against me. We can safely say this is a flaw in my actions this day phase. Let's assume when I'm not actively melting down in the thread that I can think a little more clearly.

[BBM]

Votals
Rein (2): kirsche, Shinori
Eurykins (2): Manix, Strege
Levity (2): SB, Prims
Manix (2): Rein, Eurykins
Prims (2): Levity, Euklyd
Parrhesia (1): Objection

Objection (1): scorri

Not Voting (6): Grassbridger, j00, Kay, Parrhesia, Polydeuces, Refa

You have 24.5 hours left. It takes 10 votes to lynch.

[BBM]

Grassbridger and j00 have been prodded as well. Sigh. Didn't bother prodding Kay because >weekend.

[Paperblade]

Just posting to say that multiple people have complained about others are acting in this game. Tone it down, people.

Also, Kay is being prodded.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Paperblade

[riariadne]

i lost a pretty decent post and i am pissed about something completely unrelated, so this post isn't as good as i'd like, but whatever. walling sucks anyway

don't feel as bad about furet anymore because while i stand by thinking his early posts were bad, his reactions seem like genuinely frustrated town. I don't like manix that much still because he seems to be reacting pretty big to some relatively small things but not really my number 1 scumread anymore because other than that he's been alright. i still wouldn't complain about lynching him though

##Unvote (Manix)

Okay yeah I don't really like Rein anymore, when he voted Manix ED1 that was fine, now people have been squabbling back and forth a lot and all he posts is responses to people mad at him. Is Manix still scum?

yes I still thought Manix is scummiest at the time and that's why i was voting him. shinori's vote is like this too because apparently i HAVE to have found someone scummier than manix at the time??

via's case is a one-line thing about my Manix vote and how it felt opportunistic, and then another brief thing about the furet line with no other mention outside this, and am their second highest scumread? i am very interested in hearing more about this considering i asked you yesterday and didn't really get a response

Skimmed the thread. Rein still voting Manix is bad considering the reasoning was poor in the first place. I don't see how Manix's claim is any different to a miller claim. Is anything other than the claim scummy to you?

i thought he had fairly scummy intent with the way he planned to use his role with regards to not announcing who he tailored and it being far riskier. your original vote was pretty bad too because it ignored the why in my post pretty hard

Rein not swapping his vote is really lazy. Either he's gonna tunnel Manix, which is bad imo, or he's gonna attempt to find scum elsewhere as well which he doesn't seem to be doing. I would generally classify 'not much scum-hunting' as bad or lazy. Obviously Rein is posting more at the moment so obviously he's not being ENTIRELY lazy which means it's just either poor play or he's trying to NOT help the town.

already said why i didn't voteswap but why is sticking with my biggest scumread trying not to help town. the rest of this post that i'm not going to bother quoting for size seems dismissive of refa's opinion through personal attacks a lot more than problems with his case to me, which also seems pretty out of character and i'm finding shinori pretty scummy

Objection's post is possibly the laziest thing in history and he doesn't have any real opinions

Eury is probably my biggest scumread rn because the vast majority of he posts seem to be a ton of semantics arguments and using that as voting justification with little scumhunting and lots and lots of fluff.

didn't like what poly had for stuff but he's looking for a sub now so that's whatever

anyway, i need to do a lot more ISO reading and stuff but that is all for now

##Vote: Eurykins

[Paperblade]

I've been told that Parrhesia/Furet will be on V/LA until after Day 1 ends.

[charlie_]

"Active lurky" lol

Dude I already said I don't have much else to say because everyone already knows I want to lynch Prims today and I still stand by that. I don't this scummy. I meant that what he was doing could be considered scummy but considering his backgound and the eay his posts sound he's just not important to me.

I'm really confident in my Prims read which is probably why I seem coasty. I've never been this confident in a read before. His read on me was also waffly as fuck.

Just because you're confident in a read doesn't mean that you should just sit on it and not really have many other reads.

rein needs more opinions. i skimmed his iso and all I got was opinions on me/furet. that's it. for whatever point of D1 this is, it's bad. his vote is also still on me, and has been since ED1, to the exclusion of pretty much everyone else. would still lynch here.

Lacking reads isn't exactly exclusive to Rein or anything. Via's openly admitted to it on several occasions and she's not the only one who's done this.

Spoilering responses to one of Via's wallposts for readability.

Okay so even though I fucked up and completely misinterpreted the way he attacked Manix in the beginning, here's what I see.

-His weird reaction test on me ED1 (#60) which seems out of character because I would have expected a vote from him a lot sooner, usually.

Not to mention I was voting him at the time and it feels paranoid. His jumping on an RVS wagon is null though because he does that a lot.

If Prims had a serious suspicion, why was he supposed to vote for you who he had nothing on. And what feels paranoid? I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

-After this, I ask him why he thought I was likely scum and he responds with a dodgy question. Didn't like that at all, usually he responds more directly. That's another thing--his overall tone hasn't been as direct this game as it usually is? A lot of what he says is usually more to the point and I wasn't getting this from him much, earlier in the day phase.

Not playing normally /=/ scum. It means different. Unless you can cite where Prims displayed this behavior as scum.

-this from manix (#86):

this is actually a really good point, and Prims didn't respond seriously to this question either.

How does "oh a redirector could be used to fuck with things" make Prims scum? There's nothing scummy about noticing a flaw in someone else's logic.

I REALLY did not like this at all because this feels so unnecessary and like another way to make me un-confident in my vote on him, because yeah you can say with certainty from your POV that you're town and if you sound convincing enough that usually makes me change my mind. But the only one that can see Prims's PM is Prims and I don't see it so I can't know this. This is just really scummy to me I dunno.

Wanting to deconstruct cases on themselves is a quality that's shared by all alignments, so him trying to make you feel unconfident in your read on him means nothing.

Refa bugs me because this post basically seems really lazy to me wrt scumreads and such, the buddying between Poly and Strege seems really just tacked on and the Shinori scumread is like "I agree with Manix and also <insert Manix's case here>."

Don't think Furet is scum, don't think Rein is scum. scorri is irking me because her Objection vote just looks sort of lazy to me (though so does Objection's post itself.) Via is still scummier though, as is Poly but he's apparently subbing so :/

[Percivalé]

stop referring to me as she please

also I can cite multiple places where Prims has behaved that way as scum but do you really want me to go out to those games and cite them in detail like I really don't like the way you're defending him and speaking for him and I really don't like his insistence to lynch me either /:

[Percivalé]

Also I read through his responses to my case but there are multiple things about it that I still don't like and his case on me feels like an easy one to push tbh

[Percivalé]

Just because you're confident in a read doesn't mean that you should just sit on it and not really have many other reads.

how many times do I have to say YES I have acknowledged this and have read through the thread multiple times but I still don't have reads as strong as my Prims read. like holy shit it feels like you aren't even reading my posts and your first attack on me felt like that too.

[charlie_]

stop referring to me as she please

sorry

also I can cite multiple places where Prims has behaved that way as scum but do you really want me to go out to those games and cite them in detail like I really don't like the way you're defending him and speaking for him and I really don't like his insistence to lynch me either /:

my defense of him is more like "i think your case is bad" than that, i would like an example though (don't need to cite it, just roughly)

[Percivalé]

sorry for quadruple post but if it sounds like I'm annoyed I'm not, I'm just trying to be more assertive ~_~ if I sound like a jerk though please let me know

[charlie_]

how many times do I have to say YES I have acknowledged this and have read through the thread multiple times but I still don't have reads as strong as my Prims read. like holy shit it feels like you aren't even reading my posts and your first attack on me felt like that too.

i know you keep saying you don't have other reads but this doesn't make it any less scummy to me.

[Percivalé]

oh ninja'd. nvm

in xenoblade I remember him doing some vague as fuck reaction test on me towards the beginning of the game similar to this one, and (not really wanting to cite the recent anon game since it ended kinda badly) in draft mafia he kept adding side remarks about how he was obvtown without really explaining why and how people who were suspicious of him were stupid for thinking otherwise and that just seems like he thing he does much more often as town than scum.

[Percivalé]

i know you keep saying you don't have other reads but this doesn't make it any less scummy to me.

yeah but you put words in my mouth like I think it's "okay that I don't have any other reads" and that's complete bullshit.

[Percivalé]

as scum than town*

sorry I'm freaking out because of an irl thing and not proofreading my posts ssssssssssss

[charlie_]

I never said that you thought it was okay, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think admitting it makes it any better.

will skim draft or xenoblade i guess since i don't think i ever read them

[Percivalé]

draft happened a while ago but I feel reluctant citing more recent games idkkk

anyway I was hoping maybe by day 2/by the time we have flips I'd be able to get better reads on people since this tends to happen with me in big games and it feels weird that I'm getting flak for it now......... just feels really easy for scum to push imo

[Percivalé]

sorry I know I promised a Rein case. I'll get on it just the other one took a bit out of me

[Percivalé]

I might look at Eury and Poly while I'm at it though because I have felt kinda weird about them (Eury moreso because her ISO listpost felt ehhh) but haven't read them completely thoroughly I guess

[Eurykins]

Blah, more pages to read through.

Not impressed with Rein's post/vote against me, given that he took the time to quote/directly respond towards various points against other people/cases, and yet merely states: "Eury is probably my biggest scumread rn because the vast majority of he posts seem to be a ton of semantics arguments and using that as voting justification with little scumhunting and lots and lots of fluff." as justification for his vote. ("Lots and lots of fluff" sounds more like you're putting padding/fluff on that description as opposed to an actual, valid reason to vote for me.)

Though I'm not fond of the attitude (not sure if ad hominens were warranted), Parrhesia's reactions are rubbing off as more of a townish, if not for the pure frustration aspect. Willing to give her the benefit of the doubt currently.

Scorri's vote seemed... too easy. And the gaps in timing/posting content/votes is very sparse, whether it's due to IRL matters or not, I have no clue. But it feels like more distancing gameplay, and easy ways of slipping votes onto someone's potential wagon. Not liking it.

Quote's posts have..... altered slightly, though still a bit waspish compared to what I've seen before (though this could be due to the 'experimentation/change of playing style' he's implimenting... though, imo, this still felt more hostile than assertive.). Still slightly pinging me, but less so than before.

Will read into more posts/people later- housework OP.