Baldrick Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 actually, now that I think about it, the latter is more likely. maf not killing shinori is strange enough, but not doing anything to stop him and killing a likely doc target is unbelievable. if that is true, then it would mean refa is not maf (could be the recruit but they shouldn't be who we try to lynch anyway). furthermore, poly being banned during N1 makes him fairly unlikely to be the recruit either, and my suspicion on him is based on buddying with bear, so *shrug*. guess my biggest scumread atm is wen. he is coasting off his claim (not even being a leading wagon late into the day prompted any comment) and the way he went 'oops I vigged a claimed investigation role MY BAD' pings me. I would like him to explain the reasoning behind it too, it makes little sense to me. ##vote: wen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 baldrick that isnt a bbm vote i dont see how poly being banned means anything on if he was the recruit or not, bear would be the one who mattered there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 also i feel like wen is just inactive+bad town rather than actually scum; if he hadn't claimed the vig shot there would be no attention on him if he was scum really, and he hasn't been shot either by a cc which is kinda unlikely considering this is a 16p game. i feel like i'm turning into manix someone halp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Refa, who did you target? I have a feeling that either Shinori managed to block the kill, or Refa stopped the killer. Wen, weren't you going to shoot someone? From the sounds of it you have multiple shots so I'm a little confused to as why there was nothing last night. Either there's a scum hooker on the loose, or you're not quite the hero we wanted or deserved! Unless this is some sort of massive cunning plan, I'm feeling way better about Green, and I'm pretty sure now that Shinori is kinda town, although I've somehow managed to ignore him the entire game. I'm sorta seeing SB's point on scorri, she's been kinda active but a lot of it was one liners or basically compiling lists of what happened during N1. There's also the fact she hasn't voted in like a week, which kinda highlights her lack of reads. BBM, I'm not sure option 2 is that feasible, of all the people DA BEAR could have tried to make look bad, I don't see why he'd have picked Eli especially when there were other wagons going. The only reason that it'd make sense is if Kopf or Green were his buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 i want more people to say stuff on bbm btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 also i feel like wen is just inactive+bad town rather than actually scum; if he hadn't claimed the vig shot there would be no attention on him if he was scum really, and he hasn't been shot either by a cc which is kinda unlikely considering this is a 16p game. i feel like i'm turning into manix someone halp That kinda implies there actually is a vig in the first place. I'm not like ultra-amazingly experienced in set-ups, but I've seen a fair few without a vig on the town side. The only thing Wen really has is the vig claim, he's done so little otherwise. SB, I'm kinda seeing your thing of BBM. the ITP townie is kinda a chump at the moment and has to hope everyone dies horribly somehow. The problem is that his lack of real activity also applies to half the game. Whilst this doesn't excuse BBM, I don't think he really stands out enough to seem that much scummier than the rest. However, there's the fact that town!BBM never makes it past D2 so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Gah, that early start messed up my timing. Was hoping to be able to post as soon as day starts. >_< anyway... 1. Bear's list of abilities scare me somewhat, yet it also brings something to mind... What if the mafia did NOT have unlimited nightkills? 2. I was roleblocked last night. Assuming the roleblocker believes that I am the vig, and since GP said he was at someone else... this probably means either the scum roleblocker or someone unclaimed. Now the question is, since I haven't really shown my reads to anyone... who do you guys think would feel so threatened by me that they'd roleblock me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Who did you try and shoot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Eli, to see if Bear was lying and trying to get a townie lynched or if he was trying to draw off heat from a fellow scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 bear isn't even scum though, he's third party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 that said that's probably a townslip because i think scum would notice if their own buddies flipped >.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 SB, I'm kinda seeing your thing of BBM. the ITP townie is kinda a chump at the moment and has to hope everyone dies horribly somehow. The problem is that his lack of real activity also applies to half the game. Whilst this doesn't excuse BBM, I don't think he really stands out enough to seem that much scummier than the rest. However, there's the fact that town!BBM never makes it past D2 so... Activity isn't part of my case on BBM? I made the majority of the case pretty much right after the phase started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 he is? well, that recruit ability does sound cult-like, and if limited nightkills are a thing, we might even have to consider the possibility of multiple scum groups... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 It literally says he's third party in the op. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 @SB- it's not ITP hunting because 1) means Elie is scum. It's an attempt to determine the alignment of my biggest scumread. I did pursue Eury yesterday (so saying I dropped that slot isn't true) but Bearclaw pinged me so I went with that instead near the end. As for lurking being alignment independent; I've come to realize that it's not really true. It's like emotion- the act itself might be independent of alignment, but the reasons behind it often aren't. Like in Villains 2 on MotK I lurked for a while so that I wouldn't have to prove my claimed role at a time when I couldn't use it. There are some people like Rein or Rapier who just get bored or lazy after a day phase or two, but with Bearclaw his activity is generally pretty consistent. Either he's lurking the entire time or he's fairly active throughout- an initial flurry of posts followed by a lot of lurking seemed out of character for him. As for the rest of your attack... idk man. I'll admit my play hasn't been great but there really isn't much else I can say. You're not really null to me; I'm leaning town just on general play. BTW I agree that Wen is bad + inactive town, but your reasons aren't really good. There was plenty of attention on Wen due to his RD vote near the end of D1. GP's action checks out. I tried targeting Refa and my action failed, except I also lost a use of it, which didn't happen on N1 when I was hooked. Anyways, it seems that nobody agrees on which of 1, 2, and 3 are most likely since I got responses from people against all three options. Guess I'll just wait for Elie to catch up there. ##Vote: Eurykins for now I guess. tbh I think that the scumteam is among the lurkers. The only active person I don't have some level of a townread on is Baldrick (who's null). And Shin kind of. Would hazard guess at Elie/Eury/scorri/kirsche? With the two I just mentioned as wild cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 that said that's probably a townslip because i think scum would notice if their own buddies flipped >.> wen is still probably town but that kind of stuff is easy to fake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 wen is still probably town but that kind of stuff is easy to fake i dont see this coming from town!bbm, it basically reminds me of villains 2 where you pulled the same shit on prims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'll admit that I'm pretty bad at this, haven't played for like a year and even then, used to OC, so I beg your pardon for that. For the inactivity, I blame my RL, only got net at the office, and even then my timezone usually precludes me from participating in the discussions when a chunk of them takes place while I sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 SB you say town!BBM would have pushed you more over being blocked. Does that mean you think his logic that you wouldn't have claimed to be hooked as scum is bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 BBM tends to make more rash decisions as town (see: Kirby with the SK being a hidden role and PToE with trying to 1v1 Prims) but here he didn't even seem to make an attempt to read into me, all he said yesterday on me really was that I was null and that being hooked didn't mean anything, which felt like him trying to shrug off the whole *was hooked thing* himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 wen can you treat me like an idiot and explain why you vigged fleur? you said she was trying to lead town at all costs, but this is NOC so generally town doesn't have a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 @SB- it's not ITP hunting because 1) means Elie is scum. It's an attempt to determine the alignment of my biggest scumread. You were drawing attention to what was basically a slightly more threatening survivor instead of actual scum. Nothing bearclaw says can be taken at face value ever since he basically scumclaimed. I did pursue Eury yesterday (so saying I dropped that slot isn't true) but Bearclaw pinged me so I went with that instead near the end. Your mentions on Eury were (in chronological order): -I agree with SB -Actual analysis -Paraphrasing the case -I'm ok with the lynch So yeah, I don't really think you've done enough to qualify as a push on Eury tbh. As for lurking being alignment independent; I've come to realize that it's not really true. It's like emotion- the act itself might be independent of alignment, but the reasons behind it often aren't. Like in Villains 2 on MotK I lurked for a while so that I wouldn't have to prove my claimed role at a time when I couldn't use it. There are some people like Rein or Rapier who just get bored or lazy after a day phase or two, but with Bearclaw his activity is generally pretty consistent. Either he's lurking the entire time or he's fairly active throughout- an initial flurry of posts followed by a lot of lurking seemed out of character for him. You lurked for a specific reason in that game, to avoid having to prove your claim, when there was no real reason to do it for bear here especially when it seemed he could've been a wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 wen can you treat me like an idiot and explain why you vigged fleur? you said she was trying to lead town at all costs, but this is NOC so generally town doesn't have a leader. Even if in NOC town doesn't have a leader who directs actions, gaining influence might allow someone to affect the lynches more than their single vote would normally do. I tend to get suspicious of people trying to gain such a thing to early, because 1) it makes you a big target and 2) drawing attention in this way tends to get you killed one way or another. Atm, what bothers me the most is the fact that we have had two nights already, and the ONLY kill we've had out of the Vig, scum, and third party combined was the vig's... is the scum and third idling? or do they simply have limited kills that they're trying to save for later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Ow ok, whoever shot me that fricken hurt. *mutter* In related news, I no longer have my BPV! And GP was not the night kill, I was, since our vig was blocked. I'm guessing they were going for the no associative reads kill rather than risk a watcher or something on GP/Shinori. Rereading now, but I'd be ok with an Elie lynch since Bear had been pushing Elie for a good chunk of the phase which leads me to believe that he wasn't lying about his action. I'd also probably be ok with a lynch of BBM? But not sure on that one, need to do some ISOs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 so why would scum shoot you again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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