Baldrick Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 @SB: In PotE he didn't like Prims' actions so he pushed it hard, Kirby I have only skimmed, but there were two kills, one was the vig and one was someone who the vig thought were town so BBM concluded there was a hidden SK? If I have it right, then he's pursuing what he believes to be the most likely scenario. I can see town!BBM not pushing you on the basis that you being blocked by your own redirected hooker is less likely than fleur being NKed. Also his D2 posts don't seem to be focused on survival, beyond replying to refa's case and arguing against rolespec that he considers faulty. @scorri, what do you think of bear not claiming cop in that case? It would given him the best chance of survival, since cop is more useful to town than doctor, and might have gotten a protective role on him when elie flipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 scorri was inactive, but IMHO protown in that she was helping the town not make mistakes. If they weren't shooting Shinori, it would make sense to target someone unlikely to be targetted by shinori. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Baldrick: Hmm, good point, hadn't thought of that. Maybe didn't want to risk getting a cc when he was trying to help town at least some? Hmm... I'll need to think some more about that though. SB: Like you've pointed out, I haven't had a ton of reads. Which makes me a perfect nightkill if you're trying to shoot someone and not have any real reads come from the flip. It was pretty obvious that if something like a watcher exists, they'd be on Shinori. Alternatively they aren't that threatened by a 2-shot doctor and decided to go for someone else. CouLd be a bunch of things. All I know is that I was shot last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 In PToE BBM tried to 1v1 Prims due to the daykill timing, and he tried to do a similar thing in Kirby when he thought the SK had to be a hidden role. I feel like dismissing the fact I got hooked was how he tried to avoid suspicion for getting hooked himself. scorri's protown contributions are easy to fake, it's just telling people that they're wrong. She hasn't actually contributed scumreads at all yet. Cut: no info kills aren't worth it when compared to a near confirmed town doc. Claiming cop as ITP is a terrible idea, you need to have perfect reads, PoE yourself down, hope to not be CCed and try and dodge the scum nightkill. Basically every ITP ever that isn't me doesn't want to have to take those risks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Alternatively they aren't that threatened by a 2-shot doctor and decided to go for someone else. I highly doubt this is the case, but we can't say anything for sure until Flan or Refa declares their night actions. I just don't see how a claimed doctor is lower on scum's kill list than you, who haven't claimed. I'm not entirely convinced by your claim of being shot, though. You claimed to be shot well after Wen stated his action was blocked, which implies that you were shot by scum. But there's no way for anyone to verify this, since scum won't claim the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yeah, I claimed as soon as I could. I've been a tad busy today, got home, made dinner, and then read the thread. Sorry to inform you that mafia isn't exactly a top priority in my life right now. Things that come ahead of it: Grad school, sleep, food, sometimes video games I know this won't exactly make me look better, but meh. I claim Protector. Had I been around yesterday I would've cc'd Baldrick, but I slept from... 9 AM to 5 PM? Or something along those lines, and wasn't around for deadline. I just don't see how a claimed doctor is lower on scum's kill list than you, who haven't claimed. Because for all they knew, I was a safe kill? There was no way that doc was going to be on me, no way that a driver was going to be on me, no way anything was going to be on me because of how little I've been around. Like... *shrug* I don't know mafia's minds. I don't know why they shot me, I can only make my best guess. But in the end, it doesn't matter why they shot me, all that matters is that someone shot me and our only vig claimed blocked and if there's another vig, likelihood is that they wouldn't be shooting me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Bear's wincon was for him to survive or his recruit to survive to reach parity. If his recruit failed on elie, then he needed to survive at all costs until he could recruit, otherwise he loses immediately. It's not worth worrying about the long-term when he is about to lose. Risk of being CC'd can't be avoided, but it's no less risky to claim doctor. Again, if Elie flipped scum on his call, he would be the most obvious NK so a good chance of surviving either because scum being worried about a watcher, or doc being on him. scorri is either def town or def mafia. If you think she couldn't have been NKed, you must lynch her, and I don't want to lynch of the basis of trying to predict what the scum did with their NK. scorri I didn't claim Protector ;_; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Ghat dammit, I meant Bear. Stupid B names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I highly doubt this is the case, but we can't say anything for sure until Flan or Refa declares their night actions. Idled last night. I only had the one drive that I used N1, so my actions would've effected precisely zero things. I'll re-read BBM & Eury, but I'd rather lynch Eury at this rate. Would like to hear from Wen/Elie also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 just be glad Balcerzak isn't playing :P If Refa's target flips town, then scorri is almost certainly town. If they flip scum, scorri is probably scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 scorri is either def town or def mafia. If you think she couldn't have been NKed, you must lynch her, and I don't want to lynch of the basis of trying to predict what the scum did with their NK. I'm not confident enough in my theory that she fakeclaimed being shot, so I'm not going to vote scorri just yet. It's possible that scum decided to NK her based on the argument that we'd all spend our actions protecting Shinori, and that her role deductions in D2 were dangerous enough to merit a kill. @SB - Maybe it's because I can't see the connections between BBM's play here and previous games, but I don't quite understand the case against him, other than that he's been sheeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I already stated what I did last night. There being a failed nightkill makes sense, though I'm not 100% trusting scorri yet, but that's more because I find it hard to 100% trust anyone at the moment. Also, to clarify, I got another shot in my pocket, so I will attempt another go tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 In case Poly missed it: I attempted to vig Elie last night, got roleblocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRDRHAWK Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 In case Poly missed it: I attempted to vig Elie last night, got roleblocked. yeah I missed that Refa, did you end up hooking Wen last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 @Wen, why is trying to gain influence scummy rather than null? If town have conviction in their reads, they want to be listened to, and they also don't want town to be influenced more by scum. Making oneself a target is counter-productive for scum as well, because they want to survive and would have to handle questions over why they are still alive if they've been protown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Because if you get influential enough you can pretty much get most of the guarding actions on you, thus ensuring your survival and depriving town of those very same actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yeah, I'm here. Thanks for the four pages. :\ I didn't hook Wen, I hijacked him to target Elieson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Also I have no more hijacks, full disclosure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Also, did Shinori out who he docced? That person is like confirmed town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Wow Refa, you read nothing, huh? Shinori doc'd GP but I got shot so it proves nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 ... That possibly came out a tad harsher than I intended, and I'm sorry for that Refa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Refa also kinda wasted his hijacking due 1) me being roleblocked and 2) me ALREADY targeting elie anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 SB, you need to reread both Kirby and PToE. Calling Prims scummy in PToE isn't a 1v1; it's an attack. The 1v1 didn't occur until he claimed an investigation guilty on me. And Kirby there were multiple kills, so no shit there was an SK. And then I also got an investigation report if you remember. As for me dismissing Wen's "townslip" being similar to something in Villains 2, I argued Poly as town for a while off a similar sort of "slip" in Healer, where I was scum. If you're going to use meta, do it with things that I actually do consistently as only one alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 BBM: you tried to push a 1v1 in ptoe BEFORE that iirc when the first daykill happened since you thought Prims would be the only player who would make the shot who was online, and thought Serial Killer was a role in Kirby first and said people should lynch in the hidden roles first to get the SK when you were one of them. The townslip thing is awkward because it looks like you're trying to avoid getting people cleared and are casting suspicion over people who should stick out as town to you (see Villains 2 again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yeah; the PToE thing is called an attack; that's not a 1v1. The second thing doesn't even count because it was a misunderstanding of the mechanics and I took it back. The way I'd understood it then, SK had to be a role, so to me it really was a 1v1v1, until I realized I was wrong. Here it's not a 1v1 between you and me because there are like two other possibilities as to why the kill wasn't there on N1, and I already talked extensively about which one I think it is (Fleur being the mafia NK). And the townslip thing here is me correcting faulty logic because I said in the same post that I still thought Wen was town and was defending him all of yesterday too. I'm not trying to avoid getting people cleared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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