Conspiracy Mafia - End of Days

[Prims]

there's no reason to give scum more information right now

proto should claim though since he's a likely lynch

[Prims]

also blitz i know you're essentially clear but you need to like... find and vote the scum. you're getting too caught up in roles in a game literally called conspiracy mafia where a guy who was killed pregame was revived with (I assume) a condition where he can't actually talk about the game, just for laughs. trying to game the set-up is not gonna work here

[Shin]

You guys talk too much, I started reading stuff then I got bored and made myself a sandwich! I'm a little caught up with stuff but I'll throw a few reads out so I can look better than FFM (which isn't hard when you're as handsome as SHIN).

With regards to Cam, Cam is Cam. I haven't played a fantastic number of games with him, but that general attitude seems to be him. Truth be told, I've never seem Cam as scum, so I'm not going to play the meta card. I agree to some extent with his points on Poly, but I'm not sure even Poly would be silly enough to put himself in a situation like this as scum. It just doesn't make sense as scum.

Poly's actions with regards to my allignment make sense, considering his role seems rather useless otherwise. I'm not entirely sure about miller/cop priorities, but I could probably buy it. I don't quite get the hard defense of my slot. As often as FFM gets himself lynched, I didn't see any immediate danger to him. His reaction to BBM's "claim" was also a little odd, I don't know why he'd be so willing to out himself so quickly... but then again, I don't see why scum would either!

I like Refa, he's a BRO. But nah, I like his case on weapons, and it'd be stoopid for scum to harp so much on a buddy that early on. I feel there's a logical progression going on in his noggin, especially with regards to the masons.

Kay actually exists. NEAT. However, I don't like her content. She portrayed weapons as a read early on, but never really built on it at all, choosing to go after Refa instead. Her read on Refa seems to be based on the fact he's saying he's town and being lazy before that. The case feels really weak, especially since it was her "secondary". Her Cam vote last phase seemed really opportunistic, it was literally a line attempting to justify a vote.

##Vote: Kay

Xin's kinda done the same, talked about weapons but not really making any big commitments with regards to the read. I feel like her comments towards Kay and Weapons were basically prods, nothing ever really came out of the attempts to interact, nor were any of them really followed up. I've looked through weapons and I can find literally no interactions at all with either Kay or Xin. There's like one passing comment on Kay and that's it.

Kay > Xin > Some people!

I'll talk more later, I've been trying to get this post done for like an hour and my brain hurts.

[CT075]

Cam what do you think about other people that aren't Poly?

proto is doing That Thing That Definitely sn't Scumhunting that's pretty bad, but I feel like Poly is worse

neither xinnidy nor kay have said anything that's particularly stunning (and xinnidy bugs me but i'm not nearly coherent enough to tell you why)

[BBM]

##Vote: Kay we should totally make Proto and Kay the wagons for today except not Proto bc I still think he's town.

Basically sheeping Shin's Kayse. Also what's weird is that while Kay says that the Proto case is easy, she's never said once why he's town. It looks like white knighting for the sake of white knighting, which tbf might be because she's Kay and he's Proto but I still don't really like it. Normally she's at least like "Proto does this all the time" or something.

Speaking about Shin, I think his first post seems good. In Doomsday he had a clear stance on Elie because he came into the game with the intent to bus him, and had a "meh idk maybe" stance on pretty much everyone else, including his secondary scumread; here his stances and cases are a lot more clear-cut.

Cam I don't think you've said why it was scummy for Poly to CC me on D1?

[CT075]

there's nothing inherently scummy about it, I just don't think it's a particularly townie move (we don't know what fakeclaims someone was given bastard game etc etc)

[Blitz]

also blitz i know you're essentially clear but you need to like... find and vote the scum. you're getting too caught up in roles in a game literally called conspiracy mafia where a guy who was killed pregame was revived with (I assume) a condition where he can't actually talk about the game, just for laughs. trying to game the set-up is not gonna work here

I am actually ignoring everything I think is BS

as, for my vote, I actually want to lynch mainly Proto and if Proto is not the lynch, I would like to lynch Cam (but mainly Proto) and please imagine my vote on him cause he had too many votes to place on him (also, if it isn't obvious, I do not agree with BBM's reads on Proto)

also, Kay is turning into a wagon, I think she should claim too. Also, I don't in the least bit think the cult is a joke cause of three roles in this game (2 claimed, 1 dead)

Shin's last post sounds like he is looking for easy targets from the pile of people who aren't close to clear and ignoring Proto from the list, that being said, what do you think of Proto, Shin?

I will place my vote on Shin for now to motivate him to work and push him at the same time

##Vote: Shin

and also, I am willing to make Shin a lynch target, but after, Proto and Cam and maybe Kay (but I think I dislike FFM more than Kay and not sure about Shin)

[Vhaltz]

Considering that the cop is naive I'm pretty sure both miller and godfather were thrown in as red herrings, what makes the cult flip and kirsche's role any different that you're so sure there's a cult?

Also I don't see why a hypothetical Poly!scum would lie about FFM actually being miller anyway, do you think Poly is scum or are you banking on FFM's slot being a Mafia Miller?

Prims probably worded it a little strongly but I do agree that you should probably tone down the ITPspec and try to look for scum.

[Vhaltz]

Cam why are you avoiding content. The 48 hour mark is getting close and I'm pretty certain Poly isn't getting lynched today so I want to see your reads.

[BBM]

there's nothing inherently scummy about it, I just don't think it's a particularly townie move (we don't know what fakeclaims someone was given bastard game etc etc)

so if you were given a Cop fakeclaim and someone claimed Cop, your first instinct would be to CC? Like 20 minutes after the initial claim?

[MRDRHAWK]

okay hold up I can do stuff

wrt my TR on Weapons: it mostly had to do with how his posts read and how he seemed to be genuine fmpov with his cases at the time. he wasn't my #1 townread at the time but I still didn't feel that he was scummy enough to warrant votes at the time.

also, Blitz's last post is weird; what exactly about Shin's post makes it look like he's picking at 'easy targets'? the major suspicions are on Proto/Kay/apparently me so I don't see why Shin shouldn't have commented on those slots at least.

I'd need to reread Kay before I figure out if I want to lynch her today, but I'd still presently rather lynch Proto over her.

[Shin]

Shin's last post sounds like he is looking for easy targets from the pile of people who aren't close to clear and ignoring Proto from the list, that being said, what do you think of Proto, Shin?

I will place my vote on Shin for now to motivate him to work and push him at the same time

##Vote: Shin

and also, I am willing to make Shin a lynch target, but after, Proto and Cam and maybe Kay (but I think I dislike FFM more than Kay and not sure about Shin)

Don't worry, I like FFM less than I like Shin too!

Proto's posts were far and few between, and I haven't really had much of a chance to think about them, I did kinda have to get through 17 or so pages in the space of one night. His fascination on Refa is pretty impressive, but his content is otherwise pretty empty. He also claims to have ISO'd you, but I don't really see anything that's come from it.

Blitz, I'm curious to the focus on Proto. I do agree Proto's content's really limited and lacking, but you give Cam and Kay as alternative choices, but I can't really find much that you've said about Kay. The case on Camclipse is fair enough, but I'm struggling to figure out why you don't like Kay.

I'm also a little confused by your vote on me, is it for not talking about Proto and going after easy cases? Because that seems to be it.

[Refa]

PAGE 11

NEVER REREADING AN ENTIRE GAME EVER AGAIN

[Refa]

PAGE 15

SO CLOSE TO GETTING FINISHED SO HYPE FOR FINALLY BEING DONE WITH THIS

[Refa]

If there isn't a cult, I'm going to cry because I really want to win as ITP...Probably not the best move to announce to town that you don't want to win with them but I DO WHAT I WANT.

Kay- She slipped under my radar before, but honestly her play reminds me of Yume Nikki. Like she votes Blitz for rolespeccing too, but eclipse was the only one who got called out for that. Her calling Weapons out is a point in her favor, though. Don't really like the rest of her second post, though. She complains about really easy things, like Blitz prodding people and Poly making a jokepost. Talking about how I made an easy vote isn't bad, but I don't like how she ignored my other content just to post that. Also don't really like how she calls me tryhard bad town on a personal level because 1) it's an easy way to dismiss my content without commenting on it and 2) if you really think I'm bad town, why not actually say why that's the case instead of just leaving it as it was...Her D2 vote on me is really easy, too. Like if I'm really tryhard dumb town, why wouldn't I have such content? Why haven't you analyzed anything else about me (like associative reads)?

Proto- On a reread, I noticed that he was kind of just ignoring what was happening (which is something that he's still doing even now). His explanation was fine (and honestly, I'm still not sure scum would be so persistent in their logic when people are repeatedly calling them out on it), but he hasn't really done anything since RVS besides sheeping Weapon's vote so it doesn't really hold up. Still, BBM does bring up a good point that he most likely would not be so obviously attached (is that the right word, idk) to his scumbuddy. Meh, still kind of annoyed with his play in general, but there are people who bother me more. Agree with Shin that his ISO of Blitz sucked. He didn't even get a read off of it, he just commented on general things!

[Refa]

Xinnidy- I don't really like her initial post. She complains about Proto and Kay, but it's hard to understand her reads on them. Her defense of Blitz in her next post is legit, though. Don't really have any other issues with this post I think. Also her reactions to Weapons don't come across as bussing to me but idk apparently everyone had good interactions with Weapons which is just meh. Don't like her Euklyd vote though and noone ever said he was playing to his scum meta ever. It just seems like a really forced reason to jump onto Euklyd which is bad. Although I don't think she'd call her scumbuddy out on ignoring her so much as scum, whoops. Her next post (after BBM claimed mason) confuses the fuck out of me, I don't know how to read it (like the actual post isn't confusing but reading it is). Also really didn't like her comment here; "It almost feels like you know he's town..............". Not sure if it's necessarily scummy but it really bothered me in context. Don't think her response's to being unexpectedly voted by Proto (how did that happen, I wonder) are scummy though.

Cam- Already talked about him enough. He doesn't deserve a spot in my ISO's, but he might make a good coaster for my drink!

Poly- Honestly, I forgot to talk about him entirely during my rereads. I just think that he's town because of his claim and his general manner of playing (he's spending more effort scumhunting than responding to the cases on him).

Shin- Making himself a sandwich, Shinori's lover confirmed. His first post is good; all of the reads make sense to me and I actually agree with him on most of them so yeah. Also already thought FFM was town so best confirmation bias ever (logic is overrated anyways). BBM also brings up a good point, but I can totally GUTREAD Shin's alignment maybe probably IDK.

[Refa]

Vhaltz- Never did ISO him, did I? Well here goes. Besides his initial read on me (which was at least partially based on a misinterpretation), there's nothing that really bothers me in his first post; I think his Proto case was fine for the time (rhyme). His Blitz case was kind of off, but not in a scummy way. Gut feeling here, but I don't think he'd talk about how scum's alignment color is usually red as scum because if another scum flipped it'd look pretty bad for him (yeah, WIFOM, but who actually WIFOM's about stuff like this that only people like me are bound to notice). Also considering Cam is more than likely town (well, not mafia anyways) through associative reads, Vhaltz's hard defense of him comes across as town trying to stop what he perceives to be a mislynch (just like me and Euklyd, no bias). Agree with others about his general posting style, but it's a weaker point because Vhaltz is towny as fuck as scum. Predicting Manix being alive wasn't serious...or was it??

Blitz- While an SK does make more sense than two vigs (three counting Bizz, I guess, but her role shouldn't make any difference here), I wouldn't discount the possibility of town having two Vigs considering Cult + Scum is pretty scumsided (if there is another vig reading this, don't shoot Prims to "CC" him). Not sure about your everyone claiming idea though, especially if there is a Vig and not an SK. Although I can see there being an SK and no Cult.

Didn't really talk much about BBM, Blitz, and Prims before because I don't really have much to say about them overall. Prims role comes across as townie (plus the way he used it reminded me of in Doomsday where he recommended that Manix shoot a lurker), as has his general play (although I don't think I've ever played with scum!Prims before rofl). Don't like how he strongarmed the Euklyd lynch but at the same time I don't he'd be so gung-ho about a mislynch as scum. BBM and Blitz I'm reading as town mostly because of their role honestly. Kind of was bothered by Blitz and BBM is generally a hard read for me, so I guess it was good that they both ended up being masons lol. Only thing that bothers me is that masons don't really mix well with cult (oh, I guess this is where the bastard aspect comes into play, since if a mason gets culted technically their Role PM would be lying to them).

##Unvote

##Vote: Kay

Also I'm kind of annoyed that people started casing Kay before I could finish this because I thought of it first. :<

[Refa]

To clarify, I AM scumreading Kay, Proto, and Xinnidy (although I don't think Kay and Proto are scumbuddies). Everyone else I'm townreading; PoE's a bitch.

[Kriemhild]

I'm trying to read through everything and keep up here, I don't think it's going very well

BBM and Blitzy claimed to be Masons, so I guess those two are pretty much cleared.

I ISO'd Refa's posts to search for his Persuader claim. Couldn't find it. Blitzy, are you sure somebody claimed Persuader?

FFM changed his name to "Venari Strigas"; Paper should update the OP. Anyhow, I ISO'd him and his only posts were on the Miller claim. I actually thought he might have been a Gravedigger that dug up Manix's corpse to become a Bulletproof Miller Vigilante, but then I realized that that was actually Viata while Manix is just a plain vanilla. I wish Shin would elaborate more on this Miller claim.

Speaking of Manix's resurrection, gravedigging is the only thing I can think of but the fact that Manix was a Vanilla makes that less likely. Maybe Paper decided to have Manix as a less ridiculous form of a hidden player. After all, despite the fact that Manix never publicly signed up and this game actually started on D3, the fact that the N2 victim doesn't have a corpse implies that he's alive and playing. I think somebody should vote for Manix and then request for votals, just to see if Manix is registered as a valid vote target.

I ISO'd Poly (Candeloro) and I really don't like his posts. Regarding the whole Cop modifier thing, his reaction to BBM's Cop claim indicates that he's aware of the presence of another Cop, but he later says that he wasn't CCing, which I assume means he's denying that he's a Cop. He said he confirmed FFM being a Miller and that he gets the same result from all players except FFM. If he gets the same result from all non-Millers, why would he react to BBM's Cop claim? Since he's already told us this much, I really think he should clarify exactly what his role is, why he reacted to BBM's Cop claim, and why he targeted FFM last night. It's not a good for him to make these kinds of statements without elaborating on them.

The rest of Poly's content also really bothers me. Sure, he might have found Weapons to be Townish for his own reasons but asking players that voted for Weapons to go for somebody else before he explained his opinion on Weapons is quite odd. Considering that he never mentioned Weapons before that post and that Weapons just flipped scum, I am finding Poly to be really suspicious. Aside from that, he has also been very intent on lynching Proto, going as far as declare that he's positive he is scum with his entire basis being lack of scumhunting. I really don't think that's a sufficient for being positive of scumminess.

I ISO'd Kay-nee's posts and while I'll admit that it's not a lot of posts, I do know for a fact that she has been really busy lately so I'm not surprised by it. Besides, I'm the last person that should be commenting on others' inactivity. That being said, whatever she did post seemed to be very normal and she justified her opinions. It's pretty obvious why she considers Proto to be an easy target (he did nothing that can be considered scumhunting and is very inactive) and why she wants Proto-voters to find a secondary target (tunneling on a player that lacks the activity to defend himself doesn't justify not having alternative lynch options). I am honestly not seeing why players are finding her scummy, but I haven't really read through the posts that build a case against her so I'll have to do that later.

I glanced at Xinnidy's ISO and found plenty of giant posts. I'll probably go through them later, as well as the posts that build up a Xinnidy case. Although my vote is locked to Xinnidy, I would have voted for Poly over here if I was able to.

[MRDRHAWK]

as mentioned before proto

I'm Naive Cop

the reason it wasn't a CC was because I assumed that:

a) there were two cops

b) BBM was /actually/ claiming mason so it wasn't a CC anyways

I targeted FFM/Shin to try and verify his Miller claim and did in fact get a guilty so that's why I targeted him; I thought this was made clear earlier

the rest of your post wrt myself reads like OMGUS considering I want to lynch you

and if you're going to pick at me about Weapons then why not pick at Blitzy for the same thing?

also there is a persuader due to the aforementioned votelock, though I was unaware that it was Refa who claimed it

gonna go do other stuff now be back later

[Prims]

Shin's sub-in post is pretty solid. Given his points on Kay I'd probably go Kay over him now, though imo Xinnidy's interactions with Weapons look more like distancing than Kay's since she was concerned with getting him to respond but never actually voted him.

Still prefer Proto lynch though, basically for him never doing anything after ED1 and spending his return to make general comments on Blitz's posts instead of anything decisive, except unlike Refa I think this is scummy due to the lack of intent to figure out other people's alignments, which town!Proto should have even if he doesn't like scumhunting or whatever, because town still needs to lynch scum to win the game.

Although tbh I will give Proto that his points about Poly make me want to reconsider the amount of cred I'm giving the naive cop claim. Please claim though.

[Prims]

@Refa: if you don't feel strongly about Proto why did you persuade him in the first place? Also I already explained why BBM's reasoning about the Proto/Weapons connection is really really dumb.

HOWEVER

the rest of your post wrt myself reads like OMGUS considering I want to lynch you

and if you're going to pick at me about Weapons then why not pick at Blitzy for the same thing?

also there is a persuader due to the aforementioned votelock, though I was unaware that it was Refa who claimed it

this is a horribad defense, OMGUS is when you vote somebody solely because they voted you (really only relevant during jokevotes and should not be used as a legitimate term unless like, some really really new player does that seriously), suspecting somebody who suspects you is different and trying to argue that any case is instantly invalidated if the person it's on voted you first is ridiculous. This seems to me like you're trying to throw dirt on Proto instead of directly addressing your accusations; the same goes for the essential "why me" with Blitz.

yeaaaah actually ##Unvote, ##Vote: Polydeuces. Is it too late to do this? I think I've been putting too much weight on the claim and basically not putting too much thought into his posts but what's there is pretty scummy, especially the above reaction to Proto's case. It helps that I remembered Masquerade where I made a similar CC as scum for town-cred... only that wasn't a bastard game while having two variants of the same role here isn't even far-fetched. Furthermore he's pretty much gone into coastmode following people believing the claim. Sheeping my previous #1 scumread too storng.

[Xinnidy]

And on that note I'LL BE BACK.

Oh Well.

Time to read the thread.

Holy shit Prims' dayvig claim wasn't his usual meta thing whoooooah.

I'm honestly confused as to what in weapons' interactions make proto scummy and camclipse not.

Pedit: On a re-read I do, there's a legitimate shift from defending the slot to finding it scummy for dropping off the radar, and despite that weapons votes shinori as a 'prodvote' then cam. He then does not mention proto as a vote prospect any longer. Meanwhile camclipse is just consistently considered scummy and gets a vote around endphase. I can see proto being just unmotivated scum wanting to stall out his lynch. Also he promised content today and still didn't deliver. I do not believe him sheeping weapons early is unlikely as scum considering his level of motivation and activity.

Pedit: Hi proto, I'll have to look onto your recent post later.

I agree that Kay is in a similar vein unable to generate much content and constantly seems to defend proto by attacking cases on him without actual substance, and her case on refa today does lack substance too, whereas before she was just calling him out on bad play... ok. Her cam vote is also fairly unsettling because of how both euklyd and cam were null to her and she did a bad job of explaining how it was a better option than euklyd. Could see a connection with weapons. Would lynch.

Requesting votals.

... in fact there's something which is bothering me but I want to keep to myself right now that is further incentive to vote Kay fmpov.

##Vote:Kay

anyway proto case is pretty sheepable, from skimming I didn't really find Xinnidy/Kay objectionable and everybody else but ffm (who I am down to policy lynch for being the other nonplayer whenever because fuck lurkers) is probably town so yeah.

I don't understand this wording, did you mean the Xinnidy/Kay cases?

If so what were the Xinnidy/Kay cases back until this post?

This was back on ed2 and I consider both of us were very overlooked back then.

Okay, if you guys must all sheep on an easy target, at least stop tunneling. Everyone voting Proto should list a secondary scumread.

Kay stop being buttmad for proto and actually contribute to the game instead of assuming people are tunneling him.

Weak FFM suspicion comes from weapons' interactions with the slot after re-reading D1, which I briefly mentioned here.

This, which refers to a post prior, is fairly misleading because you're assuming that me criticizing refa for not votelocking a worse offender of idle voting is suddenly gaining a suspicion.

Thankfully FFM was subbed after that point.

(and xinnidy bugs me but i'm not nearly coherent enough to tell you why)

Speak up.

[Grace]

might be alive

proto pls. I don't have time to play mafia, but I do have time to fuck with people

might be alive

[Prims]

Manix if you're not actually an IO with a restriction like I assumed then I'm just saying it's your win-con too and I doubt it'd take you very long to skim ISOs and give reads. Although I guess if you don't have time to :effortless: they wouldn't be well-developed.

Mostly I like being a Fucker Enabler though.