Reclass Mafia! Postgames are too much effort

[Green Poet]

Yay, people are sheeping my Kinumi case.

@Blitz

Looks like the third and fourth links are the same as the ones I'd assumed they were, and commented on previously. As for the first two, the exchange seems to be in a non-serious; SB's question isn't going to fool even completely newb!scum and is a simple reaction test at best, and Poly references self-meta in defense. Seems unnecessary when an equally terse/joking "nope" would suffice.

So I'm actually questioning whether or not the second link was meant to respond to SB at all, since Poly asks "how did you come up with that idea?" afterwards and it doesn't seem to fit the context of such a briefly-worded question.

What's you take? The more unnatural post of the two is Poly's here, whose playerslot is now yours, so I'm curious to see why you'd wanted me to examine it.

So from all of this is Ace a null or a scum red for you. Might just be my brain not working, but it seems to go from null to null leaning scum, to scum. But I can't read minds (otherwise I would win this game every time). Just clarify on what you think about Ace please.

At the time of posting, I had been leaning slightly scum on Ace. Kinumi was significantly scummier.

Of the votes on Darros, Beli's, Kinumi's and Lucas's all look funny to me. Beli's seems like a quickly put together vote without a very good read on Darros. Kinumi's and Lucus' s votes look more suspicious due to the manner in which both wagoned on Darros, Lucas's vote being the swing vote, to which Randa decides to ensure that he doesn't get lynched by voting Darros. Near the end when Darros said he was town, I considered unvoting, but I also wasn't sure if it was a scum fake claim.

Good answer.

I get the feeling that Blitz' pre-Randa votes have been prodvotes, but he's explaining his thought processes and I can see the effort. More of a null read now.

Randa's insistent presence in the thread feels really unnatural, in the sense that I've never seen him post like this before. Like with this post, I get the feeling that he's trying to convey frustration with what he perceives to be a slow-paced thread? I'm seeing a lot of comments dispersed throughout his posts in a vein similar to this:

Also why does the thread seem to die whenever I have things to do. It's nice cause I don't have a lot of reading upon return, but it makes me sad that not a lot of people wanna effort.

I don't understand what the issue is when only two players are presently not voting? It reads like excessive AtE to me, which isn't terribly warranted given he only has a single vote on him.

Kinumi > Belisarius >>> Randa = Ace >>> people lacking enough presence for me to remember >>> Blitz > kirsche = SB

[charlie_]

THE ACE CASE

Okay, so I'd say there've pretty much been two main phases to Ace's play. The super-defensive phase where they basically OMGUS everyone who pressures them and the amazing flip-flop phase where their reads change like every other post and they sheep a bunch.

Looking at the defensive stuff first.

##Unvote

And people think I'm scum just because I'm a newbie?

Ugh.

Okay, so this is the first sign of it. This response came after some light questioning and one vote on her early on in the day. None of them mentioned her being a newbie, so this really just looks like victimizing herself when under pressure. This post here just cements it to me.

Then there's her Darros read here, where he's town (also featured: more defensiveness!) Then he's suddenly scummy here except Ace hasn't actually tried to look at his posts at all? She jumps on his wagon later on and then right before deadline panics and says she feels like Darros was set up based on a recent flurry of votes (but she was one of the last ones on the wagon herself iirc?) and then doesn't look into Lucas (one of the people they called out) the next day beyond bringing it up when she needs to respond to people. Her opinion on Kinumi is elaborated on slightly more but the fact that she keeps hopping between Kinumi and FFM pretty much whenever I questioned one of her posts really makes me feel uncomfortable with her. It really feels like she's just going for whatever wagon is cool at the time and there isn't much of an ongoing thought process there.

I'm too lazy to write any more atm. tl;dr version: super defensiveness when there was no need for it, reads seem all over the place and her voting pattern is erratic and feels like she was just doing it to appease me half the time.

##Unvote

##Vote: Ace Tactician

Still good with a Kinumi lynch (which I expect will happen anyway!) or an FFM lynch, but I'm doubtful the latter will happen at this point.

[Randa]

Yay, people are sheeping my Kinumi case.

@Blitz

Looks like the third and fourth links are the same as the ones I'd assumed they were, and commented on previously. As for the first two, the exchange seems to be in a non-serious; SB's question isn't going to fool even completely newb!scum and is a simple reaction test at best, and Poly references self-meta in defense. Seems unnecessary when an equally terse/joking "nope" would suffice.

So I'm actually questioning whether or not the second link was meant to respond to SB at all, since Poly asks "how did you come up with that idea?" afterwards and it doesn't seem to fit the context of such a briefly-worded question.

What's you take? The more unnatural post of the two is Poly's here, whose playerslot is now yours, so I'm curious to see why you'd wanted me to examine it.

At the time of posting, I had been leaning slightly scum on Ace. Kinumi was significantly scummier.

Good answer.

I get the feeling that Blitz' pre-Randa votes have been prodvotes, but he's explaining his thought processes and I can see the effort. More of a null read now.

Randa's insistent presence in the thread feels really unnatural, in the sense that I've never seen him post like this before. Like with this post, I get the feeling that he's trying to convey frustration with what he perceives to be a slow-paced thread? I'm seeing a lot of comments dispersed throughout his posts in a vein similar to this:

I don't understand what the issue is when only two players are presently not voting? It reads like excessive AtE to me, which isn't terribly warranted given he only has a single vote on him.

Kinumi > Belisarius >>> Randa = Ace >>> people lacking enough presence for me to remember >>> Blitz > kirsche = SB

Not an AtE, just me being impatient. Only it's still valid. Just because people have voted it doesn't mean they've contributed a lot, or been in the thread. And yes I have been in thread because I've accelerated my work out program and have nothing to do with the rest of my day.

[Ace Tactician]

@SB:I recall yours going over the place D1 between RVS voting Poly, then Randa, then to FFM, then to Green Poet before settling on FFM again. I only skimmed FFM'S recent post, I went back and reread him so I could take another look at his ISO, that's where I saw the similarities in his voting pattern. And for the record, I'm not trying to appease you. I'm racking my brain to figure out who the scum are since I can't do anything else besides that. I did have a thought when Green Poet mentioned FFM tended to get mislynched a lot though.

[Zkirsche]

Man it''s hard to motivate yourself for a game that half the playerlist isn't motivated for.

[spoiler=Not Game Related]

(also, I think my username is confusing people about my gender since I'm a girl and I've gotten confused for a guy before)

Sorry I'm just really dumb. :S

Guys it's getting really hard to stay motivated to win right now. I feel like I'm trying to drag town to a victory and have two maybe three other people helping and a lot of people doing nothing. This does not make for a fun game guys. I just wanna see more people get involved in this game. Like there is an argument going on and active discussion, it gives you guys plenty to talk about. Give me some reason to actually try and win this.

This reads genuine to me as it reflects my thoughts on the game earlier (although I wouldn't say I've been dragging town to victory). His stuff on Blitz is good as Blitz's content is pretty poor, especially his stuff on Randa:

Randa also looked worse than SB to me

Then why did you vote bear going into today? If you wanted to pressure someone why did you not build a case against him instead of just voting bear? Also reading back you never really pushed Randa so I feel like this is just made up.

FFM looked fine to me until he placed his vote on me without a good enough reasoning and the last post before phase end, but not really worse than Kinumi

Is it scummy to disagree with you?

another thing that really bugs me is that you say my vote on Koneko was bad and that it has already been mentioned by a lot

I thought it was bad too.

I don't really think this means anything anyway, what does it matter if you thought something was talked a lot more than it was? Town isn't incapable of misremembering such things. This is getting really graspy now.

why would I want to build a case on SB, near phase end, when I thought Darros was scummier than SB?

Why not? It gives us something to talk about for the end of D1/beginning of D2, and it seems to me like you never really had much of a case to make so don't act like you opted out of making a case because it wouldn't do anything.

Since it was on you, shouldn't you be the first to analyze who could have had scum intent to vote you, yet you try no such thing

This is ignoring that town can be wagoned by town.

All of this is really graspy and reactionary and so I'm going to echo SB and say that Blitz needs to step it up. I feel like I may have just handwaved him a bit too much, the stuff he's chasing up Ace with is also really nitpicky (is it wrong to want to hear from me specifically?) and reminds me of stuff Prims did in Conspiracy which I also mistakenly handwaved.

He was clearly unsure of himself and following the read of someone else.

Why is this town behaviour?

I didn't discredit my read, I think she is more likely mafia than not. I added that in case she wanted to respond.

If you're not dedicated to a read doesn't that imply you think the read is weak?

I'd like to know what you think of Blitz/SB (I recall you saying that you found some stuff by SB suspicious) and give a list of people that you'd be willing to lynch.

GP, what makes a null read better than forgettable people?

SB's ace case is very solid and I think I'm going to attribute a lot of my suspicions as unwarranted paranoia, he still reads a bit defensive but the interest in scum hunting is there now.

Lynch Priority: Kinumi > Beli > Blitz = Ace >>> bear/julein/PKL > GP > FFM >> Randa > SB >>> me

Still think FFM is town on gut.

[Zkirsche]

Ace could you make a lynch priority like the one I made above? Maybe a smaller one?

[Randa]

So since we are within 24 hours of phase end and it doesn't look like I'll get my lynch on blitz, I think I should comment on people who are viable wagons at the moment.

##Unvote

Ace: Day 2, post 371 she voted beli, SB asks her bout it on post 373, and she proceeds to change it in post 376. This reads a lot like appeasement. SB did bring up decent point about post 371 potentially being an atempt at damage control from the Darros flip.

393 reads as fluff.

402 arguing about the reason behind a NK doesn't do anything.

In her blurb about the people on darros's wagon this sentence jumped out to me

Lucas's vote being the swing vote, to which Randa decides to ensure that he doesn't get lynched by voting Darros.

I'm really not sure what she means but the bolded portion, it seems like she's implying I made Lucas vote Darros so I wouldn't get lynched. But it's pretty odd because PK had their vote on him for a pretty large portion of the day, it wasn't a last minute vote.

Also I find this sentence weird

Near the end when Darros said he was town, I considered unvoting,

the fact she says this twice is a bit concerning. It seems like not wanting to get caught up in a mislynch.

Now another thing I noticed in post 402 was that she mentioned she isn't sure FFM is scum and not thrilled about a lynch on him

Looking at FFM'S recent post, I'm not very confident in a FFM lynch

, but in post 412 she suddenly has him as her second highest scum read. I understand opinions can change. But it's odd that he went from voting him to not wanting him lynched to having him as your second highest scum read.

The rest of my thoughts pretty much overlap with what SB said.

I'm going to look into the other potential lynches for the day before I vote though.

[Randa]

also something I noticed while checking ISO's, kinumi's name is crossed out with a connection to julein's ISO's instead of them being connected to koneko's.

[Randa]

So of the other options for a lynch today we have two people with one actual post each(FFM and Kinumi), somebody with two bad posts(Beli) and somebody who hasn't posted in the last three days.

A third of the game has less post combined this phase than I do. Really?

Can somebody tell why I even bother at this point?

I'm willing to vote any of them, because they're all the same exact thing, lurking. And then there's ace who I would be more pleased with a lynch of the slot.

[Ace Tactician]

Putting on my thinking cap since reading the entire game is a little tough for me:

SB: Solid reads on players overall. Vote pattern reads like town. He makes good cases and brings up good points. Tends to bounce a bit with his vote. What I didn't like is how long his posts sometimes tend to be because it takes me a while to carefully read it all. Plus I'm unsure why he wanted a hammer D1 when it wasn't required.

Lucas: He for the most part reads like someone who is extremely wary of posting for fear of being pressured. I don't like how he had to be prodded twice now, it feels like content avoidance. His vote on Darros he sheeped on Cam and Bear's cases after the first prod to appear productive. Could possibly be scum.

Blitz: He tends to have long posts most of the time which take me longer to carefully read over. He started off reading inactive players who did not have many posts to comb over and the first full content post he made, vote parked on SB before changing his vote over to Koneko who had the least amount of posts to comb over when there were other players, namely Beli and Lucas had more posts to work with. I'm still not sold on prod voting inactives when there are better cases to vote on.

Beli: Started off OMGUS defensive and haste voting Darros for the rest of D1. Generally reads like overcautious, wary town. I dislike how surface level his reads of kirsche and Lucas and the others are more elaborated on. I'm leaning scum but not quite dedicated to it.

Frosty Fire Mage: Sheep's off of SB'S Randa case while giving surface level reads, stating four different players and needing more content and dismissing everyone else as null, except his read on me. Remained vote parked on Randa for the entirety of D1. Also dismissed SB's case against him as being too early in the game while giving Blitz leeway to improve his standing before making a vote on him D2, which reads like his Randa vote. Skipped out phase end D1. Reads feel stonger D2, case reads a little better too. Could possibly be scum.

Rein plus Juliette: Good solid reads, not entirely sold on a Lucas lynch where Kinumi looks scummiest atm. Also not liking how content was promised but none was produced similar to FFM. Leaning towards town atm.

kirsche: Solid reads and makes a lot of valid points. Generally solid cases when placing a vote. At the time of the Darros vote, I also found the content of Darros's posts dropping where Randa's looked better so I was convinced he was defensive, avoident scum before he was revealed as town. Some of his posts tend to have filler stuff which lengthens them out when combing over. Overall town feel.

Randa: Started off with a shaky case against SB D1, also argues with Darros over newbie plays D1. Reads tend to vary between surface and detailed, also tends to post fluff in his posts. Also is concerned about being ninja'd which pokes my curiosity. It might be an avoidance of having to post again to answer questions before he makes the post. Also self preserves by voting to ensure he isn't the D1 lynch by voting Darros, I in no way implied he pressured Lucas to swing vote. My point was that Lucas sheep voted after a prod from scorri. His read on me changes a lot and seems to be seeking to move on to the night phase looking at his recent posts. Also tends to switch votes a bit. Honestly, I'm lost on whether he's town or scum.

Kinumi>Lucas>Blitz>FFM> Beli> SB=Randa> Rein+Juliette

This game is starting to burn me out.

[BBM]

Looking for a sub for Kinumi as well as Bearclaw.

[scorri]

Ugh, dammit, I need two subs ASAP

... ninja'd cause I didn't refresh

Edited July 27, 2014 by scorri

[Juliette]

Aaaahhh I lost my post and I had a lot typed up and that's super annoying! I will try and restate what I had before but I will probably not go into as much detail because of that. I was really busy the last two days because I got an unexpected visit from my dad two days ago for the first time in several months and I had dancing all day today so that is why I was not posting then.

I still think PKLucas is a good vote target for the same reasons as before, but I do not think he will be lynched today so I will ##Unvote him.

I don't suspect Randa as much anymore because while I didn't like his early posts his newer ones have been pretty good, I would not lynch him today.

I would consider voting Ace still, I will stay with my earlier comments on her and I think SB's case raises more good posts, so it's an option.

Still don't like FFM, all the stuff I said earlier still feels true right now, I would vote him.

I didn't pay much attention to Kinumi earlier but I think they have many of the issues I had with PKLucas apply here too. This seems like a more likely lynch target than PKLucas even though I personally think he is a bit worse, so for now ##Vote: Kinumi.

Ugh this post feels so bare-bones now but I really don't want to go back and touch it up, this is so lame. I guess I can try to get a better post done tomorrow.

[Juliette]

Also since I guess lists are easy and apparently all the rage, something like PKLucas > Kinumi >? FFM > Ace > most other people > me + Rein

[Ace Tactician]

(I find it a little ironic Kinumi is two votes away from being hammered and BBM put a call out for a sub yesterday)

Green Poet: Started off by voting Beli from his defensive reaction, would later switch to Darros close to the end of D1. Solid Kinumi case and good reads overall. What still bugs me a bit is her "not actively watching the thread" comment. That seems to me like possible avoiding content. Leaning town.

Reading Rein+Juliette's latest post, I get a wagoning vibe from their Kinumi vote. Their reads also feel surface level, not entirely stating what about Randa's newer posts that make him seem townier to them, or elaborating on why they would still vote FFM. Also, PKLucas is at the top of their scum list yet they vote switched to Kinumi which is second on their list which feels a wagon vote of convenience due to how much time is left in the phase. A bare bones post that just doesn't sit right with me.

[charlie_]

ace: what does surface level actually mean? it feels like you're just using it to justify everything at this point tbh.

been out, catching up now

[scorri]

A reminder that you have 7 hours left in the phase

[charlie_]

so i got distracted for 2 hours but nothing actually happened anyway!

But really I feel like I got nothing out of the last page because it seriously feels like half the game isn't playing. The only thing I really have to say is on Ace's post and I want a response before that. Kinumi is probably where I'm gonna vote but idk the votals right now and don't want a hammer.

[Randa]

If I'm right she's at al-2. Will wait for mod confirmation before I vote though.

[charlie_]

I feel like I should say this at least.

If we mislynch today, we might be in *YLO tomorrow if there are 4 scum (and 2 male/2 female doesn't seem unlikely to me?). If that's the case, don't vote. It makes it really easy for the mafia to come in and hammer for an easy win. Talk things out for a while and make sure everyone is claimed before you make any decisions.

[Randa]

Usually I would be fine with waiting for the person in question claim, but Kinumi hasn't been here for a while, and the mods haven't reported a sub yet. I'm not sure we could even get a claim. But I will wait, let's say 3 hours. If she doesn't claim/no sub comes along, we should probably hammer so we don't no lynch day 2.

[Juliette]

Ace, I'm really not sure what you're trying to say there because those are mostly things I myself said were going on within my most recent post. There is nothing wrong with voting for a secondary target in this instance when I think the person who I would like to vote for the most is at this stage not really a viable lynch candidate, especially when we must have the majority of players voting somebody in order for them to be lynched. I was the only person voting for PKLucas and not many people seemed eager to lynch him right now, so I moved my vote to a more useful spot. Furthermore I said at the very top of my post I had lost a previous post and thus did not want to try and reconstruct it when at the time of posting it was 1 AM for me and I slept almost immediately afterwards. You use words like surface-level or shallow a lot, but they don't really mean anything by themselves, or even discouraging possibilities as too obvious or not trying hard enough, especially, as I've noticed, posts about reads that involve you feeling rather dismissive as if someone reading more into things wouldn't think there is a good chance you are mafia or something in a similar vein.

I was not really going to elaborate on FFM much anyway because there is not so much to even elaborate on, I think- my first (real) post mentioned I don't think he is trying to make real content and so far that certainly hasn't changed up until now. All of his comments have been small, off-the-cuff remarks with not a lot to say about much of the game.

While I suspected Randa's early posts for cases that didn't really feel grounded in reality I think that he has not posted like this since then and his posts feel insightful and sincere in comparison to his early posts, so I don't suspect him at this point any longer.

[FrostyFireMage]

FFM: How has Blitz's content been waffly. I skimmed over his ISO and it really doesn't feel that way? And why is Blitz's prodvoting different to Ace's attempt at one for example? Missing phase end itself wasn't scummy but it was the fact you came back to say "oh I was sleeping" then did nothing after that, and it kinda reminds me of FFTA where you always said when you were going to go out/sleep/whatever when you'd never done so before.

I don't really understand Beli's last post. His PKLucas and Randa reads imply they've done scummy things but then he writes them off as town because ???. Can you explain?

I'm also confused at why FFM's last post suddenly made Ace get cold feet and then jump to another wagon? It kind of feels like that's all she's doing this game.

His first post was a whole lot of stuff that didn't really relate to scum-hunting and a rather poor SB vote which was a "reaction test". Next was a long post basically focusing on inactives rather than actual active players (Ace at least had votes on people besides inactives) and then another long post where he spend all his effort mostly defending his cases. After his SB reaction test fell flat his Koneko vote felt really random and was pretty much a prod vote. In general his posts felt like he was focusing on people with little content more than people who actually have contributed more. Plus his reaction to my vote felt like OMGUS.

TLDR: Reading Blitz is a pain

Bear's posts have been really basic with statements he said he would follow up with unexplained but apparently that's due to his laptop being on the fritz (my condolences) so I'll be checking his sub when he/she joins.

Randa's post in where he chastised other townies for not contributing enough felt unnecessary and a ploy to appear more "townie than thou."

Beli still doesn't look good. The only thing of note he has done is an OMGUS and then he seemingly dropped off the side of the planet. New players are more prone to OMGUS votes which aren't necessarily indicative of alignment so for now I'll say he's an inactive.

Ace has been all around wishy-washy, particularly in regards to me. I was willing to let her AtE slide in the beginning because of her newbishness but now that new stuff has come up it feels like she's trying too hard to go with the flow and keep attention anyway from herself through being indecisive instead of scum-hunting.

Kinumi has been inactive with sheepy votes but I think it would be best to wait for her sub.

Ace > Kinumi > Blitz > Randa > Beli > Bear > Other peeps

##Unvote

##Vote: Ace

[Prims]

NOT PLAYING

[spoiler=Not Game Related]

Sorry I'm just really dumb. :S

on SF (adjective) (noun) is a feminine name form, like Green Poet, Ace Tactician, Curly Brace and Smug Brit

NOT PLAYING

[BBM]

VOTALS

Kinumi (5): GP, kirsche, Belisarius, Ace, Rein/Juliette

Ace (2): SB, FFM

Randa (1): Blitz

Not Voting (4): Kinumi, PKLucas, Bearclaw, Randa

7 votes are required for a lynch. You have around 5 and a half hours left in the phase.

Still looking for a sub for Kinumi and Bearclaw. If PKLucas doesn't post before phase ends, he will probably be either forcesubbed or modkilled, depending on the availability of subs (and right now the latter is looking more likely).

Edited July 27, 2014 by BBM