Samus (regular) and Ike are candidates for bottom tier

[Florete]

I've seen that Ike player, he's pretty insane.

in b4 ana says zero suit samus is obnoxiously broken

I don't really take notice of tournaments, so I've got a few questions that I should've known had I been watching some.

So there's some loser bracket, and then someone can "get out" of that and be in the finals? That's very interesting, and I love second chances (if that's the purpose of the loser's bracket?). Sorry for the dumb questions.

As far as I know, the tournaments are double elimination, which basically means you're out once you lose twice. After your first loss, you go to the loser's bracket, and if you keep winning, you can climb back up and still win the whole thing, though at Grand Finals you'll need to win two sets against your opponent (who was in the winner's bracket the whole time).

Cue Ana finding a way to be negative. No surprise there.

[Anacybele]

Hrm, I guess I don't understand how loser's brackets work quite as well as I thought. Makes me wonder if I should change my mind about adding one to the Wii U hype tourney. ._.

Ike moving up a few spots in the tier list would be nice. He doesn't need to be top tier or anything for me, I'd be satisfied if he was mid tier (though not at the bottom of mid tier, more like high-mid).

Edited November 6, 2014 by Anacybele

[Vajra]

It took two years since SSBB's release for Ike's potential to be realized. Ike went down every successive tier list until his lowest position in the fourth list. Ever since San's 9th place finish at Apex 2010, the competitive community's views on Ike have changed, which allowed him to escape low tier. Ryo's efforts would then further consolidate Ike's placement in mid tier from that point on.

Ike has made it out of low tier before, and, from the look of things, it is still possible for him to do it again. ^-^

Edited November 6, 2014 by Xuan Wu

[Anacybele]

Yeah, but he BARELY made it out of low tier in Brawl. He's still right at the bottom of mid tier. I'd prefer that he got a little higher than that.

[Jedi]

To be perfectly honest with the better balance. Climbing or not won't make as much a difference.

Then again I also think of poor Olimar despite not being a fan of his playstyle being one of the highest threats in Brawl to being one of the weakest in Smash 4

[Vajra]

If you want to see him farther up the list, then we Ike mains need to work together to further revolutionize his metagame, much like how San and others did in the past; better tourney results with Ike will especially help. The question is whether or not SSBB Ike has reached his peak metagame; in other words, what else he may be capable of. The fact that he had the best jab in that game along with the ability to cancel with it was a major hallmark of his metagame.

Now that he has lost the ability to reliably cancel his jab, as well as dealing less damage, we will have to reinvent the way we play Ike in order to prevent him from falling farther to the bottom.

^-^

Edited November 6, 2014 by Xuan Wu

[Knife]

Holy shit, this Charizard beat a Sheik at high level play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipXpPPwrFMg&index=26&list=PLFXOgPi6_N5R73PYUY7_wtVg_cFunU8Og

I was in the tournament too, but I lost against Denti. If you know Denti, he's the best player in Dallas (but Trela is the best here in Houston). Still a big deal, Shiek normally gives Charizard a lot of trouble. But damn, Flare Blitz is such a good move. Charizard definitely ain't no low tier anymore.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Knife

[Anacybele]

If you want to see him farther up the list, then we Ike mains need to work together to further revolutionize his metagame, much like how San and others did in the past; better tourney results with Ike will especially help. The question is whether or not SSBB Ike has reached his peak metagame; in other words, what else he may be capable of. The fact that he had the best jab in that game along with the ability to cancel with it was a major hallmark of his metagame.

Now that he has lost the ability to reliably cancel his jab, as well as dealing less damage, we will have to reinvent the way we play Ike in order to prevent him from falling farther to the bottom.

^-^

Yeah, shame that Ike lost those cool tricks. :(

I think custom moves should be involved when doing tiers though, because many tournaments allow them and they tend to make a big difference with some characters. In Ike's case, Close Combat wrecks shit a lot harder than his regular Quick Draw. In fact, Close Combat is how I always WISHED Ike's Quick Draw worked.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Anacybele

[Florete]

I think custom moves should be involved when doing tiers though, because many tournaments allow them and they tend to make a big difference with some characters. In Ike's case, Close Combat wrecks shit a lot harder than his regular Quick Draw. In fact, Close Combat is how I always WISHED Ike's Quick Draw worked.

They are. Custom moves are allowed pretty much everywhere. This Ike player specifically was just using Ike's standard specials.

[Anacybele]

Ah. Well, then if performances like his could get Ike up a few spots, then I'm definitely interested in seeing what custom moves do for him here. :o

[shadowofchaos]

but through sheer determination and skill, you CAN win with him. A lot of people can achieve victory using characters that are not as good as other characters.

You need to read people for Ike.

Like seriously READ them and their habits.

Really, for glory has A LOT of people spamming rolls.

It's a lot easier to punish those with someone that can chase that like Captain Falcon though.

[/late to the conversation]

Edited November 6, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Comet]

You need to read people for Ike.

Like seriously READ them and their habits.

Really, for glory has A LOT of people spamming rolls.

It's a lot easier to punish those with someone that can chase that like Captain Falcon though.

[/late to the conversation]

that doesn't mean anything though. all that says is that for glory has a lot of people who don't know they can get punished for rolling. if you're facing a good player, reading rolls won't be much of a priority because they know not to be predictable with it. it's not really having to read rolls to be good with ike, that's just the way to beat bad people.

[Florete]

You need to read people for Ike.

Like seriously READ them and their habits.

Really, for glory has A LOT of people spamming rolls.

It's a lot easier to punish those with someone that can chase that like Captain Falcon though.

[/late to the conversation]

When I play against really good players, I realize that I dodge roll way too much. It's a bad habit that I picked up probably all the way back in the Smash 64 days.

[shadowofchaos]

that doesn't mean anything though. all that says is that for glory has a lot of people who don't know they can get punished for rolling. if you're facing a good player, reading rolls won't be much of a priority because they know not to be predictable with it. it's not really having to read rolls to be good with ike, that's just the way to beat bad people.

Reading rolls from GOOD people feels SOOO GOOD though.

Especially when it's a Falcon Punch.

Or reading a counter when Up Air spam to a YESZ ending because they think you're going to knee them.

I just depends on your character's options how much you're able to "chase" someone.

Edited November 6, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[DreadFighter]

Recently I heard Ike almost took a tournament. Therefore he has potential we are missing.

I find you can punish rollers by roll towards opponent, falcon kick, repeat. Input lag may play a roll in the annoying rolling.

[Magical Glace]

49, actually, but NO. How dare you tell me this? I can't just automatically start favoring another character. It doesn't work that way. I don't like anyone else as much as Ike and Luigi and I never will.

I randomly took a liking to Dark Pit over his freaking Japanese voice.

Now he's my favorite character to use in the game, and is Waifu tier to boot.

So yes, technically that can happen...

[Anacybele]

Recently I heard Ike almost took a tournament. Therefore he has potential we are missing.

I just wonder what this potential is without his awesome jab canceling and Quick Draw canceling. o.o

[shadowofchaos]

"How dare you tell me to like other characters!?"

Is there some sort of "questioning your loyalty towards 2D characters" that justifies the offended tone you have here?

[Loki Laufeyson]

I randomly took a liking to Dark Pit over his freaking Japanese voice.

Now he's my favorite character to use in the game, and is Waifu tier to boot.

So yes, technically that can happen...

Two words:

Booty

Shulk

[Anacybele]

"How dare you tell me to like other characters!?"

Is there some sort of "questioning your loyalty towards 2D characters" that justifies the offended tone you have here?

Uh... Who exactly is this directed at now? All I said was that I was curious about Ike's potential when he lost some of his best Brawl tricks.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Anacybele

[Vajra]

Holy shit, this Charizard beat a Sheik at high level play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipXpPPwrFMg&index=26&list=PLFXOgPi6_N5R73PYUY7_wtVg_cFunU8Og

I was in the tournament too, but I lost against Denti. If you know Denti, he's the best player in Dallas (but Trela is the best here in Houston). Still a big deal, Shiek normally gives Charizard a lot of trouble. But damn, Flare Blitz is such a good move. Charizard definitely ain't no low tier anymore.

Very nice. I do recall those names from the Brawl era. ^-^

Yeah, shame that Ike lost those cool tricks. :(

I think custom moves should be involved when doing tiers though, because many tournaments allow them and they tend to make a big difference with some characters. In Ike's case, Close Combat wrecks shit a lot harder than his regular Quick Draw. In fact, Close Combat is how I always WISHED Ike's Quick Draw worked.

Those were what made Ike a competitive threat in SSBB, yes, and we will miss them. Of course, that does not mean there cannot be any new discoveries for Ike in this iteration. The Wii U version will surely open more possibilities, thanks to more optimal control options, such as the C-Stick.

Ike does seem to be given some of the better customs, compared to many others in the cast, which address some of his problems, like recovery. His placement on the tier list would probably rise considerably if customs are factored into the critieria.

By the way, do you have a Smashboards account? There is a forum dedicated to Ike. Topics found here include a social thread, a moveset and metagame thread, a match-up thread, and more. The many Ike mains you find in this forum, including the reputable San, are very knowledgeable of the character. This is easily the best place to seek any tips and advice to improve your Ike. Join the club!

http://smashboards.com/threads/greil-mercenaries-ike-users-friend-finder-thread.369633/ (Ike Users & Friend Finder Thread)

http://smashboards.com/threads/friends-being-fought-for-ike-social-thread.356166/ (Ike Social Thread)

^-^

Edited November 7, 2014 by Xuan Wu

[shadowofchaos]

By the way, do you have a Smashboards account? There is a forum dedicated to Ike. Topics found here include a social thread, a moveset and metagame thread, a match-up thread, and more. The many Ike mains you find in this forum, including the reputable San, are very knowledgeable of the character. This is easily the best place to seek any tips and advice to improve your Ike. Join the club!

http://smashboards.com/threads/greil-mercenaries-ike-users-friend-finder-thread.369633/ (Ike Users & Friend Finder Thread)

http://smashboards.com/threads/friends-being-fought-for-ike-social-thread.356166/ (Ike Social Thread)

^-^

覚悟しろ。

Prepare yourself.

It's smashboards. Be sure to behave yourself if you go there.

[Knife]

Yeah, be careful there. They are much less tolerant people than we.

[shadowofchaos]

Yeah, be careful there. They are much less tolerant people than we.

Not so much "less tolerant"... more like they expect a lot more out of people's contributions to discussion.

[Ema Skye]

Not so much "less tolerant"... more like they expect a lot more out of people's contributions to discussion.

Not really.

I've been there for over two years as a filthy casual scrub lord and no one cares about my background at all. As long as you aren't blinding spreading misinformation the people there are really friendly towards you. I think you could benefit a lot by getting your feet wet and seeing what the Ike boards there have to offer you. /shameless plug

In other news, anyone else feeling bottom tier Olimar vibes? DSmash and Side B and suddenly your army is gone. Halving his Pikmin army basically turned him from destroyer of all things non-Meta Knight into... I would say a really crappy Robin where he basically has to "recharge" after attacking twice (disclaimer: I think Robin is a good character but I think comparing Robin to Olimar is pretty accurate).