School of Hard NOCs (take 2) - Game over!

[Refa]

That's possible, I suppose (referring to the lack of direction from scumbuddies). Not as convinced about Mancer calling him out because at that point, it'd be better for scum to throw suspicion onto a townie than give their inactive buddy towncred (which would be wasted on later days anyways). Also why mod kill what's his name? I'd rather Manix sub in; if the slot is scum, then Manix will sub out!

[charlie_]

lol i just checked when mancer called him out and it was after he claimed scum, it's wifom and completely meaningless since it didn't even get people to look into scarletflame's slot in the first place

i forgot about manix being a sub tho

[Flamy]

... Aw crap, I forgot about thi-

Wow. A lot of peeps are reading me like a dirty scrap of paper. I'll put in my vote though.

##Vote: Rapier (Reginleif master race)

[charlie_]

wow

[Refa]

i'm at a loss for words too

[Randa]

okay guys on my laptop give me like 15-20 minutes then ill get out an actually useful post.

[Randa]

or we could have a hammer and make me wait till tomorrow.

[Refa]

Randa, you can post until eclipse gets back. RTFR etc. etc.

[Randa]

Randa, you can post until eclipse gets back. RTFR etc. etc.

we can thank!?

anyways did i not explicitly say in one of my early posts not to quickhammer till i got out my post.

[Rapier]

... Aw crap, I forgot about thi-

Wow. A lot of peeps are reading me like a dirty scrap of paper. I'll put in my vote though.

##Vote: Rapier (Reginleif master race)

Funny how ScarletFlame comes back to vote on the highest wagon possible in the most opportunistic way.

Do something about him next Day, please.

Unvote

##Vote: Rapier

I've no time for this, and completing this math schoolwork has taken my sanity away. My lynch is more benefitial to the town, it seems, so go town.

[Randa]

Hmm, I'm in my Gender Studies class right now and incredibly bored of the topic material so I feel like playing mafia and getting really into this game mainly because I think I have the game solved. I don't know I am going to be re-reading with connections in mind. I am also going to be trying to go after someone in a second. So excuse me for a bit. If someone comes into the thread and wants to talk I would be happy to have a conversation with them.

P.S. @Gorf: I see your questions and will get to them shortly. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten.

hey i do the same thing in programming when i get bored. #mafiainclass

Pg. 3, Massive disconnection from Mancer+Refa *Probably not connected on team*

Pg. 4 Why did Mancer slow down the BBM wagon? He wasn’t close to being lynched. Looks like a way to score some easy town cred on a TownBBM flip and looks like Mancer has some more knowledge than others (which is true since he was mafia. This points to BBM being more likely town.

Pg. 4.(cont.) Prims’ BT vote for RVS adds more weight to BT shooting him and therefore a disconnect. BT+Prims based on current common knowledge from D2 means they are not on a team.

Pg. 4 (cont.) Was Rapier’s Randa vote more about adding fuel to the wagon or just hopping on a quicker wagon that is forming on a towny since the only other wagons at the time were BBM(RVS) and Prims (RVS). The reason I ask this is because Rapier voted exactly after BT’s pushing of Randa which seemed the realest of the pushes so far and I would assume Rapier would know that. Henceforth, I think that Rapier may be a tad sketch on that Randa vote.

Pg. 5 Curious! Poly comes in and actually lays a vote on Randa and also tries to justify it as a real vote with when he says “He’s made the least amount of sense to me.” This looks like another hop on vote for poor reasoning in RVS and seems to try to add weight to the Randa wagon which didn’t really have much legs to stand on.

Even on a readthrough…I am skimming Refa’s posts because I do not agree with a lot of the logic being presented. I would say that he could be a pick for like the fourth scum or indy, but I do not know if I am sold on him being scum. I just think a lot of what he has been saying and doing is wrong and townies can be that way as well so it’s really no big deal.

Pg. 5-6. Sara is feeling town based on her responses to things and her explanation on the BBM situation that SB would not let go lol. Both come across as townies trying to gauge and react and actually scum-hunt. Nothing SB has done really makes me think he is scum especially even though he changes his vote a lot, it has a purpose behind it and shows that he is looking for scum. Sara also feels like she has a purpose to finding scum but it’s a little less than SB.

Pg. 7 Holy balls that blatant disconnect to Randa from Mancer. Like this isn’t even like SvS because of the way Mancer is going to push Randa. I would like to make note of his FoS on Rapier but not on Poly. Could go both ways since I am seeing both Rapier/Poly as a possibility for scum-mates to Mancer/Prims. Mainly this sticks out to me because he is like “Randa vote is out of nowhere” which goes two ways. One, why does it matter if you are pushing Randa yourself? Or two, Why not FoS Poly as well since Poly actually came in out of nowhere and gave literally 0 good reason for their vote on Randa. Sloppy case on second look, just thought it was sloppy town but now that it is known he is mafia, well this easier it seems.

Pg. 7 (cont.) Prims’ scum team consists of J (town), Ellie, Mancer(scum*buddies*) and nonposter (throws Gorf’s name in). Since we know he threw in a scum-mate already in here I doubt that he would put also Ellie when he knew that I was town *from my eyes, I understand others not knowing this 100%* so I actually lean towards giving Sara more points about being town. I also believe Prims was telling the truth behind a non-poster being scum so I would actually say that due to PoE and Occam’s Razor, Sara is more likely to be town over not.

Pg. 8 BBM finally posted content and it was just a meta reason to vote Mancer. Plus he also backs Prims up regarding his push on me which gives BBM some minus points as well. Weak reasoning to hop on the Mancer wagon but also siding with flipped scum does not help. I do not think these actions are inherently scummy in itself but compared to my town reads, BBM is very weak and just a null read for me. Could go either way.

Pg. 9 Only thing of relevance is the J vs. Prims argument is here, Larsa being really towny but loldead, and Refa just droning on about how his J vote isn’t misplaced and him reading Mancer as town due to him believing he knows his role which leads me to believe he is not a part of the same side as Mancer because that is just….odd scum-play if you are that passionate about believing someone is crumbing a PR/Role especially when Mancer never really did crumb a role. Refa is reading as misguided town.

Pg. 10, SB gets major town points for his 181. Like probably the easiest town-readable post so good job on that. SB like shot up high on my town-list especially with all the current knowledge that has been said. He says J is more looking town. Prims is nasty. Larsa is reading as town, BBM is weird and also Mancer is still scum to him. This all flows naturally, does not feel forced, and also looks towny. The fact that 4/5 of his reads are proven correct *in my mind, 3/5 in everyone else’s* then SB can be town.

Pg. 10 (cont.) Gorf comes in and makes a really null large post. Didn’t get much vibes either way from him. He’s in the pile with BBM of nulls.

Pg. 13!!! Bingo, I found who I am going after. In the finals hours before Mancer comes in and says that he is scum. Rapier comes in saying that his top two scum-picks are J and Mancer, but who does he choose to even out the wagons? He votes J. *I really wish I was around to retort with a PW .gif…* However, I will say that because of this move from Rapier it shows something because he says “I’d rather lynch J over Mancer…..a J lynch seems more unlikely with….##Vote: HBC J….Voting Mister Jay anyway, since he’s the best choice. If it becomes impossible to lynch him, I’ll switch to Mancer.” This looks like a scum-mate trying to get credit on a scum-Mancer lynch if he does end up switching and being able to just go “Lol wrong on J *grrr*” but still try to get a townie lynched over his scum-buddy. Rapier’s 258 is really important to go into as to why I find him as scum and could dissect it more if people want, but I feel Rapier is the scummiest after the current actions that have happened.

This is the end of my D1 notes since the rest of the posts were between Randa/Larsa and Mancer/Prims which ¾ of them are confirmed and ¼ is pretty much confirmed town at this point to me. That means it’s time to vote!

##Vote: Rapier

jesus. thats a eury style post! anyways i can kinda understand the logical progression on the rapier read, but i do have to have to wonder what your thoughts are on the more recent, read not day1, content.

Considering how Prims hardbussed Mancer during the second half of D1, I'm not discounting the notion that it may have been bussing by Randa. Although, that'd be pretty ballsy for Randa to do right away considering his track record as scum, so hmm.

Not liking Rapier right now, will have to reread him later.

are you trying to imply something about my scum game?

Actually, I totally forgot about Elie's patented weird-ass D1 reaction test. He seemed a bit more defensive about it than usual when SB pressed him about it, and that struck me as weird. He also didn't really commit to a scumread throughout D1, bouncing back and forth on inconsequential wagons (BBM in a semi-RVS vote, then a prodvote on Navel and finally Prims).

Forget the part about 4th scum, I'm leaning Elie over everyone else for that. I understand the lower levels of contribution, but what he has done isn't particularly good in any facet. If not him, probably Gorf or Randa (if he's ballsy enough to push on a buddy for towncred the way he did, kinda leaning no on that just because Prims did it too).

i dont quite think eli is likely to be part of the mafia based on interactions with prims, but i do think you make some points that can be valid about itp!eli. particularly the defensive part of his reaction test. (note that i actually didnt really pick that up when i was going through the thread before, but that probably has something to do with me just glancing over Elie.)

Maybe because tone matters when reading someone? Also, low content was one of my motives to vote him lol, and his shift of attention to those who were particularly on his wagon was also strange, because it seemed as if he only bothered to read these players because they voted him, and not because he wanted to scumhunt.

Also, you should read my ISO again. I explicitely said that I don't find J scummy anymore, so there is no point in making a case on someone who I find town.

Being super lazy is not indicative of scumminess. Isn't it also lazy to vote someone based on laziness? Your content so far has been to question semiobvtown players such as Randa instead of scumhunting the rest of the playerbase, so I don't see how different you are from me?

rapier stop arguing over which one of you is lazier.

I actually stopped my read on page 23 cause of something I saw rapier post and it's at the bototm of this post. Actually something similar was stated by someone else as well. BUT NOT TO THE EXTENT OF RAPIER.

WRT bolded why are we jumping to the conclusion that a claimed vig is actually a vig and not an sk? Just curious. Also gut feeling says something is wrong about this post and I don't really like it. Not sure quite what is bothering me though.

One pointless comment. Info that you got hooked. and then two paragraphs about you waffling on BT. How exactly is this actually helpful content to us? How is this actually scumhunting? You shouldn't be able to get away with this lazy sort of post. You didn't even vote anyone. I can understand needing to look at other interactions but why not just wait then until you had read stuff?

This post and the argument you had really reminded me of how I act sometimes. And I honestly feel this seems off for Refa which makes me kind of wary of him.

Oh right this was one person who said something along the same lines as what rapier said. I need to produce content. 1: I subbed in but then wasn't around cause it was already near the end of day 1. 2: Day phase starts and I work lunchs at olive garden and I'm not gonna be here in the morning or afternoon. I really only have evenings open. You seem impatient at me needing to produce content when logically speaking it hasn't even been that long since I have joined the game. Personally not liking BBM at the moment.

There have been plenty of occurences in the past where scum have claimed numbers. I just feel that this should be stated because that shouldn't be an instant town read because of that. However him playing well can be seen as town play but it can also be seen as scum play. I honestly would say you should judge him more based on what his detailed, logical, invested scum-hunting has provided. Has it provided reads and info? Has it helped us provide USEFUL conversation between fellow townies? A scum member can easily be all of the things you said and just trick the town into silly or stupid moments. Don't simply judge him to be town because he is active and claimed numbers.

This post really seems off. Why claim vanilla randomly? Even if you are town and trying to catch a scum member. Because as far as I remember only 1 other actual person claimed Vanilla besides the fake claims from the scum members on the previous day phase.

No Mancer wasn't the same thing as a vanilla. Please don't say things like that. And that second line just seems really defensive and off setting. Why wouldn't you? IF you see it as LOGICALLY safe because you don't foresee the chances of town attempting to lynch a vanilla because of the misshapens hat have already happened then it would logically be safe for you to claim such a thing.

OKAY I GOTTA TALK ABOUT THIS. I sub in at the end of day 1. Day 1 ends before I get around to do shit. Night phase happens. Day 2 happens and I'm not around for the first day and you think I should be lynched? You are treating me as if I've been around for multiple days of activity when I obviously haven't. I was SUBBED IN at the END of a day phase. You really can only say I've been here since day 2. And if I've only been here since day 2 how can you logically say that I should be lynched because I missed one day? The fuck Rapier?

I'M NOT EVEN INACTIVE THOUGH IS THE THING. MISSING 24 HOURS OUT OF A 72 HOUR PERIOD ON MY FIRST DAY INTO THE GAME BASICALLY DOES NOT QUALIFY AS INACTIVE.

So not only is your claim wierd and random and poorly thought out you are pushing for a lynch on a 'inactive' that's not actually inactive who just only subbed into the game. Your reasons for voting me are weak and poor and opportunistic.

Current reads/thoughts and shiz.

Lynch priority: Rapier > BBM > others that are mostly null at the moment as I'm still reading a few things and trying to get my thoughts together.

However the gist of this is Rapier's posts seem weak to me and his reasons for wanting to lynch me is abysmally weak and his claim was so off and awkward I don't really see a townie doing that for no reason. I mean it's happened in the past but why would an actual town Vanilla claim in this situation? It seems silly.

BBM's posts generally seem fairly weak as well. A few of the posts from him don't seem to actually have much ACTUAL content to them. Both of his posts that I quoted in this post are two prime examples of that. I'd honestly recommend looking at them and deciding for yourselves how they seem to you.

##Vote: Rapier

not gonna lie that seems kinda tunnel-y, idk how to spell. but on to actual problems with this, what makes BBM any different from myself. i post frequently and yet overall i probably, somebody should check this cause idk how much of my posts can be defined as content, have about the same. and what of poly who has even less content. just wondering why you specified BBM for reasons that can apply to multiple people.

Your points are basically really really bad.

Giving some content now and then the rest later is infinitely better to waiting and giving it all in the future because you can get feedback/reactions on that part right away, so that you don't forget the stuff you want to say, so that other people know what's going on in your head, and because it's normally preferable for people to read two smaller posts than one larger posts but then, your gf is Eury (obviously the other extreme of 10 one-line posts is also not preferable). Specifically in the case of my post about BT, posting my thoughts on BT was helpful because Randa had just voted for BT, and my thoughts there could have been useful to him (if BT hadn't claimed vig anyways).

Also good job going MAN BBM'S DAY TWO POSTS HAVE NO CONTENT while ignoring all my D1 posts and ignoring the fact that literally everybody has far less content on D2 than they did on D1. It's something that happens when two scum are dead at the start of D2 and the rest of the active players are all more likely to be town than not. I'll concede that I'm not making as much of an effort as I could, but really, I have no interest in lynching anybody who's been active for all of D1 and D2, and don't really think that an in-depth reread of D1 is going to make me feel sufficiently worse about active posters to want to lynch them over a lurker.

I'll apologize for not knowing your schedule and not knowing how much time you had to read and catch up. Now how about my schedule? I have to be on campus for approximately 40 hours a week (11 of which are on Mondays) and also spend 3 hours each day commuting. Then on top of that I have homework for at least an hour every day (depends on how much free time I had on campus), so really, if you're going to pull the 'I have work and was busy' card, understand that this is also the case for other people.

And I didn't even go like 'man Shinori is super scummy we should lynch him if he doesn't have content'; it was a request for you to post since you hadn't to that point.

Also... you have literally nothing looking at D1 posts from anybody. This is where the majority of the content happened, because people went into coast mode once D2 started.

Finally I didn't really like your reasoning to Gorf about Randa. It's not that you're not townreading him, it's that you're not saying why Gorf shouldn't. If the reasons that Gorf outlined about Randa being attentive, logical, etc. can all be faked by scum, why is it so hard for this amazing scum player to also be able to fake useful content that produces reads? And more to the point, in the specific case of Randa, is this actually being done or not? This feels like you talking about game theory without applying it. Has Randa's content been useful and generated reads, Shinori?

Oh yeah I agree about you talking about how illogical it is for Rapier to argue for your lynch, but several people asked for a massclaim from the lurkers, and Poly was actually the first one to claim, not Rapier. So Rapier's claim wasn't out of the blue.

i had some reasoning behind this post, but i dont remember what it was so can somebody remind me during d3 to comment on this post.

First thing I do on my quest to ISO Prims, Mancer, Gorf, and Rapier is to click on my own ISO link. Never change, Refa.

[spoiler=Gorf]

Prims had him as a tacked on scumread (for being a nonposter) early on, but it's not particularly telling He later questioned Gorf's position on me, but otherwise had no read on the dude. *sigh* Mancer just got mad that he voted him or something and asked the completely useless "Are you scum" question. Aside from that, he didn't make an adequate effort to respond to Gorf's read on him in the slightest. Thankfully, Gorf's end has associative reads which are worth a damn. He announces a Mancer suspicion early on, and from what BBM said, voted him at a critical point where he could've easily saved the dude. I think someone in Guitar Mafia mentioned Gorf being prone to bussing, but like with what I said about SB, this seems a bit much. And that's...pretty much it. Like some of his other reads are well substantiated (D1 read on J, D2 reads on Elieson/Randa), but otherwise it's hard for me to get anything off of him. Overall though, he's still town despite that because of aforementioned associative reads from his end.

[spoiler=Randa]

One of Prims' main points against J was that he never followed up with his read on Randa (or me, for that matter), and that he'd never ever ever support a Randa wagon. This does not help me figure out Randa's alignment. Fuck you Prims, your ISO has been useless to me. Mancer first made some legitimate points against the dude (such as his earlier posts being useless fluff), but then devolves into rolespec. If Mancer was trying to mislynch the dude, he could've done a hell of a lot better than continuing the number spec that people had called him out on. In the end, he even unvoted Randa (who he'd been tunneling up until that point) to make a bunk vote on BBM. I'm not really seeing how Randa is townie from these associative reads; if anything, his associations with Mancer remind me of dewound and Rapier from Guitar Mafia. Overall, I'd put him as scum; none of his content has really stood out to me (I can't remember a single thing that he's done on Day 2), and the number of townreads on the dude is baffling.

[spoiler=Rapier]

Thank god Mancer got lynched, I've got zero associative reads (not counting town reads) off of the other flipped scum. Anyways, Mancer complained about Rapier parking his vote on a popular wagon (setting it up as his second highest suspicion at the time), but then later went off to vote BBM instead because shut up. He later listed Rapier as a possible fourth scum despite being more sure of his scumread before. So not looking good already, but let's take a look at his actual content. Dude's first content post was perfectly fine, I could understand why he'd be voting J over Mancer (even if Mancer is flipped scum). The only problem is he doesn't really have any other reads outside of those two people.. This also explains why he'd go into Day 2 voting Shinori...from a scum's point of view. As town, I'd expect a reread to yield some actual content that bothered him; it's just...extremely lazy play on his part. Rapier also complains about Poly's case on Randa, before appeasing Poly by saying he's not scumreading Poly either; I'd totally buy a Randa/Rapier (R&R, heh) scumteam at this point. So yeah, overall I do have a scumread on the dude; I know this makes absolutely no difference to anyone considering Rapier was probably going to get lynched anyways, but fuck you my voice must be heard.

i do agree that prims iso is useless, be easier to get associative reads after death k thnk. anyways i do disagree i feel like mancer changing his vote because he found no support for that lynch is about as indicative of my alignment as poly changing his vote to rapier when he found no support for it today, now if poly flips scum then lynch my ass. also if you're townreading gorf why is he the only other person in your post on your scum reads.

I'm voting Rapier based on that too (see: my last content post), but I'm trying to look ahead here; if Rapier flips scum, who do you think could be his scumbuddy?

I don't get why this is so baffling. Yes, I see the interactions as SvS; looking back I forgot to mention Randa's interactions (probably should have checked that one a little better, oh well), but the way he parked his vote on Mancer early on and didn't ever bother to seriously reanalyze it bothered me; I'd expect a townie in the same position to have way more interactions with his scumread (citation: BBM).

you want me to have re-analyzed someone who was clearly floundering and who i stated when i discussed any other scum read, granted that didnt happen a lot, that was still the most suspicious person in the game. id be more suspicious of the people who got cold feet on the lynch around midday, hence why i was so certain BT was scum coming into this day.

[Randa]

Funny how ScarletFlame comes back to vote on the highest wagon possible in the most opportunistic way.

Do something about him next Day, please.

Unvote

##Vote: Rapier

I've no time for this, and completing this math schoolwork has taken my sanity away. My lynch is more benefitial to the town, it seems, so go town.

1. you already hammered

2. i fully intend to lynch SFlame tomorrow

3. also my last post took exactly 20 minutes, thats how you keep a deadlin refa!

[BBM]

ScarletFlame should be vigged IMO; would rather vote someone who's likely to respond to my vote

[Refa]

STEP OFF MAN I'VE GOT THINGS TO DO

[Refa]

If BT. has another vig shot, sure. All things considered though, he probably doesn't.

[Randa]

ScarletFlame should be vigged IMO; would rather vote someone who's likely to respond to my vote

the problem is that BT already used his vig (not complaining you got us the king of mafia, or would it be the mafia, prims which title do you prefer) so if he has more hes probably an SK and while id rather not have to waste a phase on Sflame i would much rather not have an SK

STEP OFF MAN I'VE GOT THINGS TO DO

[Randa]

maybe scum could be nice and kill him for us. please?

[BBM]

I don't actually think BT is a SK but fwiw you shouldn't go like IF BT HAS ANOTHER SHOT HE'S THE SERIAL KILLER because then he most definitely won't shoot if he is.

[Randa]

I don't actually think BT is a SK but fwiw you shouldn't go like IF BT HAS ANOTHER SHOT HE'S THE SERIAL KILLER because then he most definitely won't shoot if he is.

fffffffffffff

didnt think of that.

[Rapier]

why do you intend to lynch someone who you believe is town, Randa?

please don't tell me you're mafia again

[Rapier]

maybe scum could be nice and kill him for us. please?

because ScarletFlame can only be killed by scum if he is town. Therefore, you believe he is town. Or I fail logic forever. The latter is probably the case.

[Randa]

why do you intend to lynch someone who you believe is town, Randa?

please don't tell me you're mafia again

when did i say Sflame is town. and if you're talking about BT i said if he had another shot. which would change from town read to sk read.

[Randa]

because ScarletFlame can only be killed by scum if he is town. Therefore, you believe he is town. Or I fail logic forever. The latter is probably the case.

thats what you're talking about. anyways no i was joking. i dont actually think scum will listen to me so i highly doubt he would die even on the off chance hes town.

[Randa]

rapier you're thinking things, just go home and get drunk.

[Randa]

that should say over thinking. which is apparently two words but i never knew that it seems kinda weird that nobody has bother to point that out to me before.