Least favourite Lord and why?

[Popo]

In terms of stats, Roy, Eliwood, Hector, and Lyn always disappoint me to varying extents. The biggest problem with the FE7 lords is that no amount of training seems to adequately prepare them for the final chapter. (I think this relates to the argument that the legendary weapons are actually too statistically heavy for the characters to wield effectively.) Coincidentally, as characters, I really adore them. XD

Personality-wise, I really don't care for Marth. His old-school games are understandably light on story and characterization, but the new games have absolutely no excuse for being so poorly written. I know as much about Marth now as I did when SSBM came out. :/

[Lord Raven]

He is overly perfect at it, for the amount of training he got.

Griel died sooner than everybody thought he would. Thus, he didn't have time to fully train Ike's leadership. Yet everyone bar Shinon fully trusted Ike right after Griel died without a second thought. And he SOMEHOW get's put in charge later despite being some lowly commoner Elincia happened to run into.

Honestly, with that said the "faults" you listed feel more like informed attributes. They don't really have any consequences for him.

I wouldn't say that.

He's leading his faction of the mercenaries under Greil's order and most likely Titania's supervision. I doubt it's a solo effort as you are trying to imply.

When Greil dies, they basically barely get out alive in that fort and only survive because Gallia miraculously comes out of nowhere. Otherwise, Ike's gone.

Shinon/Gatrie left because they didn't trust Ike, but Shinon/Gatrie are already of a more cynical brand anyway, and they're much older. Titania didn't want Ike to fall flat on his face so she stayed because they definitely needed their help. Boyd/Oscar/Rolf are not only younger but they basically trained with Ike and sparred with Ike, and were much, much closer to Ike than Shinon/Gatrie. Mist obviously won't be leaving, and Mia/etc were simply carrying out their jobs. Soren's loyalty is undying.

After that they're basically being led by Gallia or under Begnion's orders. If Ike were doing perfect by himself, then he would a) not be taking orders (so he isn't by himself) and b) wouldn't be getting any help from Gallia or Titania (again, not by himself). And don't forget, Soren is basically the leading tactician and Soren/Titania help him manage resources. It is somewhat crazy to assume Ike is doing everything and Ike is leading everything by himself until Chapter 18, when you could make the argument that he's actually able to do more things on his own.

Even then, he makes the mistake of not digging further into what Nasir is doing, the Volke thing is still sketchy, and many people still don't really trust him 100% (except Elincia who is not only naive but inexperienced by herself). He's not even really doing everything perfectly or by himself, because Begnion, Gallia, and Pheonicis give them plenty of aid (see: Tanith, Janaff, Ulki, Lethe, Mordecai). You're basically shooting your own argument in the foot, because you're arguing Ike gets too much attention when a) that is natural because he's generally the leader and b) by saying this, you are actually taking attention away from every one that has sent forces to support him, as well as the impact of those forces.

If he were as perfect or as trusted to do all this as you're implying, Gallia, Phoenicis, and Begnion would've sent a hell of a lot more troops towards him, but they didn't. He only became the de-facto face of Crimea in Chapter 18, and that's basically because Crimea has almost nothing else to back them up. If Renning were still "alive" (he was assumed dead or missing, we all know what really happened, so don't read too much into that word) then I have no doubts he would be leading the Crimean army and the Greil Mercenaries would serve a very similar role to what they served as a part of the Gallian Alliance in FE10. The reason why things seemed so well executed had a lot to do with the fact that there's multiple countries (including the central theocracy) aligning with him, and even they all have had their shares of ups and downs what with Kilvas and Nasir just fucking them up.

The entire plot doesn't revolve around Ike like you're implying, which I believe ends up being your biggest issue with him. Even then, in Chapter 18 he's definitely developed enough that he could take on the lead of the military, but a good leader in war or things in general doesn't control everything, they direct everything and leave others to do the micromanagement which is precisely what Ike did. And who better to trust with the minutia than Soren and Titania, who are actually more experienced?

I'm going to close this out with a note that I'm mainly talking about Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn is a clusterfuck that I'm not willing to acknowledge. Ike is the primary protagonist in FE9 and the game traces his growth; in FE10 the viewpoint character should not have been Ike and they should've aimed for a narrative that included Tibarn, Elincia, Ike, Sanaki, and Micaiah because they were all very crucial driving forces leading to Part 4, as opposed to going back to just Ike and basically pandering.

Ike not only stole the spotlight for RD, he steals the spotlight for all general FE discussion.

LOL, but it's true though, because I don't think Hector/Lyn/etc really have as many polarizing qualities as Ike has. Edited February 2, 2015 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

I like to think that IS has some sort of soft spot for Ike, to be honest.

I read that PoR and RD were the games they really wanted to make and that they made the GBA games mainly to generate profit. Then they suggested Ike to Sakurai for Brawl. Then they make Ike the only lord not named Marth to have a confirmed descendant (not counting Eliwood, Chrom, and Sigurd who have kids), and they also made Ike Old Hubba's favorite Einherjar and hero. Priam's paralogue is even named "The Radiant Hero." Chrom is also more similar to Ike than Marth, imo, though I also feel he's still a combination of both in the end (sort of).

Of course though, they also like Marth because Marth. But yeah.

[CT075]

honestly if you take fe9 as having happened however it happened, a lot of the given complaints about the fe10 lords suddenly make sense (well, at least the pre-p4 parts - nothing will ever redeem "AIKU-CHAN ZELGIUS IS BURAKU NAITO BAIBAI~")

>ike is the obvious choice for the laguz alliance, as he's a mercenary (and thus doesn't have political consequences), yet has experience (even if he did little himself, titania and soren will come with him anyway) in leading an army, so they won't get utterly rekt

> ike is the only choice for the apostle's army - the only other plausible candidate is zelgius, who, as i've stated, is MIA

> micaiah's annoyance with ike is twofold - first off, she has the standard daein dislike for ike (which i have yet to see anyone adequately refute), and then she also has to put up with sothe absolutely raving about an already-disliked figure. it probably also hurts that sothe has found someone else in his life other than herself to look up to

E:

I also happen to think that micaiah and ike are rather well-written characters, just that the games and characters around them are kind of shitters at times

Edited February 2, 2015 by CT075

[Lord Raven]

I don't think FE9 was shitters, but FE10 really does a good job at losing you after a certain point. I think part 4 is where it all went to hell, and 4-E was basically just pandering.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Lord Raven

[FrostyFireMage]

Ike really does a lot of favoritism from IS which is pretty obvious in FE10; the plot could have easily been about Micaiah and Ike equally and would have improved as a result but Micaiah ends up becoming a plot device because IS couldn't resist giving their nerdcrush all the spotlight.

[Radiant head]

so you hate a patriot for being patriotic?

geez you must come from like, Russia or Cuba where everyone hates being a citizen of their country

Patriotism is generally pretty stupid and harmful anyway in the real world.

I don't think FE9 was shitters, but FE10 really does a good job at losing you after a certain point. I think part 4 is where it all went to hell, and 4-E was basically just pandering.

Yeah honestly the whole Ashera judgement plot was just awful and contrived. I was actually interested in the whole Begnion-Laguz Alliance war (even if the senators were laughably one dimensional). There were so many possible ways to take that war story, and then it only gets revolved by having God come and plot device the war away. I'm not saying it came out of nowhere, because they've been hinting at releasing a god from the medallion since PoR, but it's still a lame end.

Of course I love Part 4 gameplay wise, it's just the story I have issues with.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Radiant head

[CT075]

I think that a bit more focus on micaiah would have improved FE10, but there wasn't really a lot that could ahve been done without a major plot rework (although, considering part 4, that might not be a bad idea anyway)

micaiah is honestly uninvolved from the main plotline of fe3 until very late (we're going to pretend 3-6 and 3-7 don't exist; for all intents and purposes they only serve to establish that pelleas is hiding something and the micaiah is faithful). until the apostle's army fiasco (which happens far later), there's not really anything she can do

wrt writing I like the overall plot and characterization of FE9 (and FE10 pre-P4, for that matter), but some of the micro things just really get me (see: any of rolf's lines, ever)

[Nobody]

I just wish we had more Dawn Brigade chapters in the game, specially from a gameplay point of view. They're just so much more interesting and enjoyable than everything else...

I also think PoR and the beginning of RD are pretty well written, but things get kind of bad in part 4

Edited February 2, 2015 by Nobody

[Anacybele]

I wouldn't have minded a different plot, so long as it was good and Ike still gets a main role. :P

The Dawn Brigade was boring though, they needed more development and characterization. I might've liked Edward and Leonardo if they'd been more...well, interesting.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Anacybele

[Radiant head]

The Dawn Brigade was pretty phoned in, to be honest. You have Micaiah, the central "lord" character, you have Sothe, the one-dimensional clingy boyfriend, and then everyone else has no personality at all. I'm not sure more DB chapters would have salvaged this.

Honestly, when I started RD, I was just impatient to get to Part 3, because I got attached to the GM characters from PoR.. Though I really enjoyed Elincia's chapters too.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Radiant head

[FrostyFireMage]

FE10 feels more like FE9 fanservice than any else, really, since all the focus clearly went to the Greil Mercenaries.

[Anacybele]

A real support system could've salvaged this. Support conversations can offer everything from hobbies to personality traits to backstory to development for characters. Look at Jill in PoR, for example, becoming friends with Lethe and changing her views about laguz and stuff. And Tauroneo too, telling Rolf about his sons and how his wife left him.

[CT075]

yeah the only characters that got any real characterization in fe10 were micaiah, skrimir, and, like, pelleas. i guess sephiran/zelg too

the problem with giving ike a large role is that his character development is largely finished; no matter what you do, he's going to be a static character. that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can get boring if you're stuck with him for a long time (see: all of part 3).

[Lord Raven]

Nah, there was no way to put in a support system given the way they planned the game. More variety in the base conversations would be better.

On top of that, extra supports would've made like half the cast really, really redundant with FE9.

[Anacybele]

I guess you have a point on the support thing. But how would extra supports have made half the PoR cast redundant at all?

[Radiant head]

the problem with giving ike a large role is that his character development is largely finished; no matter what you do, he's going to be a static character. that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can get boring if you're stuck with him for a long time (see: all of part 3).

Well I don't think it's impossible to give Ike a new character arc. But IS seems to agree his character development was finished, so they didn't really bother.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, well, I loved RD Ike anyway! Not just for his design, but he got some really funny moments. His conversations with Aimee, his sarcasm at Dheginsea ("Why don't you just kill us now?" lol), his witty comment to a recruited Oliver ("Um, do you mind rejoining the enemy?") and then that comment he makes in the Kauku Caves ("We have enough men to take care of these clowns.")...loool.

Oh, also, his comment about Shinon after that convo where Shinon gives Aimee the Silencer. "Shinon wouldn't tell me that he smelled smoke if I was on fire." I just found that funny for some reason too. :P

RD Ike got axes AND swords as well, unlike his PoR self.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Anacybele

[CT075]

with ike's character arc, where would you go? i'm honestly having trouble thinking of anything that wouldn't seem super shoehorned in

[Anacybele]

Well, I write him to become more accepting of his legacy. He seemed to dislike that he gets so much attention and so much regard as a famous hero. But I have him begin to think along the way that he can actually appreciate it because he's made a difference in the lives of a lot of people. And that's something he finds he can like.

But yeah, a full new arc for him just seems pointless now. Just some side development.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Anacybele

[Jave]

FE10 should have been just Part 1 stretched into like, 30 chapters. They had a lot of material to work there, but Daien felt so underused in FE10.

Parts 2, 3 and 4 should have been their own game. Or not existed at all.

[Lord Raven]

with ike's character arc, where would you go? i'm honestly having trouble thinking of anything that wouldn't seem super shoehorned in

"The Greil Mercenary Mysteries" with Sherlocke Holmes voicing Ike.

[Prince Blueblood]

Least favourite? FE10 Ike and FE 12 Marth.

Consider Marth Ironic because one of my favourite Lords is FE11 Marth, his Shadow Dragon characterization is really excellent (even with not that many dialogues, but those who present has really deep impacts), but FE12 turned him into pansy who always need someone's reassurances and supports WITHOUT turning that into plot point (if in later stage his regression in personality is lampshaded or implied that it was because Kriss' influence, it could potentially turn into far better story - and that's why The Hero of Shadow decides to hide, so Marth got his personality back - but uh, IS Failed to see the potential and turn this into Marth turn idiot in FE12. You better make his portraits spewing saliva and foaming at the mouth like idiot and he will have no difference.

I honestly didn't get why Ike get really dumbed down n personality as well in FE10, as his characterzation in POR is definitely better and deeper... Flanderization at its finest...

Edited February 2, 2015 by Prince Blueblood

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Seriously Idk what's with the FE9 Ike hate.

Sure he cannot lead his army without Titania and Soren, but this makes him more credible. He trusts to them and this faith is based on reciprocity.

Still better than an one-man-show; a leader, who's the dictator of the group.

Ike couldn't hide his emotions and anger towards Sanaki, after she had "tested" the identity of Elincia. Of course he couldn't! Which person would accept, when an empress spotted a princess and a built confidence.

He's only an ordinary citizen, so (of course) he doesn't know the customs and traditions in the nobility. And Ike has learned about his "mistakes" when he became a lord.

Edited February 2, 2015 by The Taninator

[Sunwoo]

Because people have preferences and like different things in a character? I mean, I don't understand the appeal of Hector in FE7 or Ephraim in FE8, and I don't understand why people hate Eliwood in FE7. But you don't see me ever going around and saying "I don't understand why people like this character" or "I don't get the Eliwood hate". Because I accept that people like and dislike different things as I do.