Anyone feel like Kozaki is the perfect Fire Emblem character designer?

[Crysta]

Can't say I'm particularly eager to see berserker butt in combat animations. I think Hawkeye just has a loincloth, though, but I don't see much of his assets outside of his rippling pecs - aaaand I'm not complaining.

I think the only way it can be a true equivalency is if you had buff shirtless women and skinny men prancing about in bikini dancer/mage attire, because that's pretty much what the true gender-swap situation would be. And I've participated in enough game forum discussions to know that would be a very big problem for much of the consumer base; many are particularly against "ugly" female main characters.

inb4 someone harps about the consumer base being mostly male so of course there's going to be boobies. I KNOW.

[Thor Odinson]

buff women where sign me up that is literally 90% of everything i draw

[Irysa]

I think the only way it can be a true equivalency is if you had buff shirtless women and skinny men prancing about in bikini dancer/mage attire, because that's pretty much what the true gender-swap situation would be. And I've participated in enough game forum discussions to know that would be a very big problem for much of the consumer base; many are particularly against "ugly" female main characters.

Asking for true equivilancy in the way men and women dress is kinda unfair though. Like, women can wear masculine outfits without it being viewed upon negatively in many forms of media (it might have some minor stereotypes attached to it, but seriously, nobody gets on your case for wearing trousers anymore, it's an accepted thing), wheras men can't really wear "female" associated clothing (such as a frilly dress) without being ostracised for it. The skin being shown doesn't really factor because seriously, look at He Man.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Irysa

[Rawkstar]

So... "It's just a game. Making money is more important than character/game integrity, and good fans don't criticize games they like"?

Wow. It's almost as if you don't want your favorite game series to improve upon themselves.

You never implied every female should be heavily sexual in design, but by your logic, why would you care otherwise? You're a good fan, so you should overlook all the tits and panties and just buy it Day 1 anyway.

Of course I want it to improve, I just don't see how character design can be counter-productive. It all comes down to opinions, and it's my opinion that there's nothing wrong with over-sexualizing particular characters. Just because we share different opinions and I'm not criticizing it doesn't make me any less of a fan. And you're absolutely right, I probably wouldn't care if the females (or even males for that matter), were super suggestive in this game. There's more important things to focus on and/or worry about then character art. I believe that if you actively look for something wrong in anything, you will find it. It's better to focus on the things you do like. And at the end of the day, making money IS the main objective for the game designers...no matter how much we want to believe it's not true, money is their top priority.

Also, I must apologize: for some reason I had it in my mind that Rath didn't wear a shirt in his portrait. I was mistaken. Forgive me for that argument in my previous post.

[Crysta]

Do keep in mind what you consider worth complaining about doesn't really thrump what may concern someone else. You are not the guru on what is and what isn't important in a video game - not any more than anyone else is, anyway.

Perception DOES affect your profits, so if they completely dismiss the fact that they may be turning away their growing female fanbase, they're dumb and they're going to - ironically - pay for it. You adapt to who may buy your game, not the other way around.

[BrandedRogue]

Point is that in awakening female armor just got stupid ><

Mages, myrmidons and thiefs with bare legs and cleavage doesn't affect their 'function' in a battle. (That around 80% of the FE females never get to wear pants is another thing, I not all girls like wearing skirts). (Female) Armor should start making sense again ><

[Dark Holy Elf]

Whatever else we think of Kozaki and/or the art designer, I doubt they're chasing that many fans away. The armour is goofy, but overall I find the sexualisation to be relatively subtle compared to many other video games. I think the decision to feature Camilla's swaying bust in the trailer cutscene does far more to make this an issue than costume design. (Exactly what effect even that has on fans of various genders and sexualities buying or not buying the game is an interesting question and not one I can answer easily.)

I would imagine that dragons would be even worse, actually, since basically every flap would move them up and they would fall in between. Pegasi canonically fly with magic and not wings, though, so I suppose it could be the smoothest thing in the world.

Well, dragon flight itself is pretty much magical in and of itself. The wverns/dragons we see characters riding in Fire Emblem are already almost certainly more massive than the largest flying creatures that have ever existed in real life. (As are pegasi, for the record, assuming their weight is similar to that of a pony.) It's unlikely that such a creature could possibly exist in a world with earth-like gravity and atmosphere, and if it did there isn't the slightest chance in hell they'd be able to carry an extra 150+ pounds of human and their gear. Magic is pretty much a required explanation.

Honestly, if mounted flight was going to have even a dollop of realism in its armour design, the folks flying them should be wearing the lighest equipment possible (though yes, probably including pants). They should also probably all be very light people: short, skinny, often young.

I'm fairly sympathetic to the argument that it makes sense for mages, myrmidons, etc., to show more skin than cavaliers and armour knights, but flyers should not be grouped in with the latter category.

[Rewjeo]

That looks bigger to me than FE dragons, and it likely weighed up to 250kg/550lbs. Now, we still probably have to suspend disbelief a little bit on the weight/physics end of things, but it's not so farfetched that you could ride a flying animal. Animations at least seem to support that wing flaps do something, though IIRC Tellius pegasi move up and down, too, so it looks like we aren't finding any perfect consistency on this topic.

[RJWalker]

Pegasi don't fly with magic in FE. They even try to explain their flight, like in Vanessa's support with Lute.

[Dark Holy Elf]

That looks bigger to me than FE dragons, and it likely weighed up to 250kg/550lbs. Now, we still probably have to suspend disbelief a little bit on the weight/physics end of things, but it's not so farfetched that you could ride a flying animal. Animations at least seem to support that wing flaps do something, though IIRC Tellius pegasi move up and down, too, so it looks like we aren't finding any perfect consistency on this topic.

Hmm, that's much more massive than what I was able to dig up on the subject, I found estimates ranging from 100 to 320 pounds for the largest pterosaurs, although obviously we can't possibly be sure. (The size is huge, yes, but that alone doesn't imply weight. Albatrosses look almost as big as humans but they weigh something like 30-40 pounds, see for instance here) Still, even if right it would be hard-pressed for such a creature to carry a human-sized weight, and it would only be pracitcal for the rider to be as light as possible. That any extra weight makes flight notably more difficult is an inescapable physical fact.

EDIT: I forgot to note that the reason I said that wyverns look bigger than pterosaurs was a reference to its overall weight; pterosaurs had extremely slender bodies, I believe, while wyverns (the draconic ones, not the FE8 wyrm-like ones) often look quite bulky. Just my impression though; it's possible that wyverns are a lot lighter/more slender than I assume.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Dark Holy Elf

[Ike-Mike]

I like Kozaki as an artist in general. He has a poignant art style with a focus on heavy lighting and detailing everything through dark outlines that reminds me a lot of my own.

Though I was pleasantly surprised that he's the main artist yet again, I don't want him to become the overall series artist. I like the current rotation of artists after one or two games a lot.
I also enjoy the gradual improvement throughout the series from no dedicated artist to prolific illustrator.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Ike-Mike

[Rewjeo]

Pegasi don't fly with magic in FE. They even try to explain their flight, like in Vanessa's support with Lute.

I always interpreted that as them using magic, since the explanation for their flight is that they kick to fly, and, well, that certainly isn't generating much lift without magic. Looking at it specifically again, I suppose it never actually says magic, though. Interestingly, in that support Vanessa also says that no one could ride pegasi if they flapped all the time even though that's exactly what dragon riders do.

[feplus]

This Hawkeye argument is silly.

Here's his official artwork. Is his clothing practical? Yes. As the guardian of Nabata, light clothing improves his mobility when fighting in the desert, which makes sense. Will some players find Hawkeye attractive? Sure, but a character being attractive and a character being presented as a sex object are two different things.

Now let's look at Tharja's official artwork. Is her clothing practical? Not in the least. High heels won't help you get around the sands of Plegia, and the full-body pantyhose is bizarre. You could make the argument that it's protective against the sun, but one wonders why her cleavage- and only her cleavage- goes uncovered.

This is the key difference between Hawkeye and Tharja: Hawkeye's OA shows off some skin, but the design fits with his role in battle and he is not needlessly sexualized. Tharja's OA shows off skin but does not fit with her role in battle, and these sacrifices are made specifically to make her sexually appealing. Why is she wearing full-body pantyhouse? So the player can see the contours of her legs and body. Why isn't her chest covered? So the player can see her cleavage. Why does she wear high heels? Because guys dig high heels. Why is her finger pressed against her lips, and why is she looking seductively at the camera? Because she's designed as a sex object.

You could make an argument for pegasus knights, but no other character I can think of in FE6-10 had their design compromised for fanservice. Awakening makes this compromise constantly.

[Ϲharlie]

Walking around wearing nothing but a loincloth makes no sense in the desert. Just take a look at the way actual desert-dwellers such as the Bedouins are garbed. I guarantee you'll never see them going shirtless for any significant period of time.

Hawkeye's design is not practical in the least.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Yeah, walking around shirtless in the desert is going to become the ultimate sunburn.

[Anacybele]

Uh, wouldn't covering yourself up in a bunch of clothing in the desert just be asking for a heat stroke?

[Hardin]

Uh, wouldn't covering yourself up in a bunch of clothing in the desert just be asking for a heat stroke?

Do you see people walking around in loincloths in Saudi Arabia?

[feplus]

Hawkeye isn't wearing "just a loincloth." Did you not click on the OA link I provided? He's got pants, too.

I was very specific in arguing Hawkeye's design makes sense in terms of improving his mobility. It's not as if he spends his time walking around the desert; he comes out and fights off intruders when they infrequently arrive. From what we can gather, he spends most of his time with Athos and caring for his daughter indoors.

[Anacybele]

Hawkeye isn't wearing "just a loincloth." Did you not click on the OA link I provided? He's got pants, too.

I was very specific in arguing Hawkeye's design makes sense in terms of improving his mobility. It's not as if he spends his time walking around the desert; he comes out and fights off intruders when they infrequently arrive. From what we can gather, he spends most of his time with Athos and caring for his daughter indoors.

What this guy said. Hawkeye definitely wears more than a loincloth.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Uh, wouldn't covering yourself up in a bunch of clothing in the desert just be asking for a heat stroke?

I've read the specifics before, but IIRC, it has something to do with keeping sweat from evaporating too fast, don't hold me on that though lol

[B.Leu]

Hawkeye's design make more sense, and is better than FEA Berserker's design, as well as FEA's Fighters. Valke included.

Seriously, Hawkeye wears a simple tribal necklace, Vaike wears a collar and chains that seems out of a prison. Or a bondage club. And I'm not even talking about that weird wood-armlet.

You know though, I do wonder if the temperature in FE's deserts is really that high. yeah, they're slowed down, but they doesn't seem to have any problem with the heat.

Heck, look at Stefan, he is wearing a turtleneck, somekind of thick coat, AND somekind of kimono-thing...

L92: Great avat and sign, bwt.

Edited April 12, 2015 by B.Leu

[Irysa]

When in a desert, it's better to wear clothes that cover you but are relatively loose rather than going topless. This is because your sweat evaporates much faster if you are uncovered, and primarily evaporates due to direct heat/radiation of the sun/desert, rather than your own body temperature. Sweating is more efficient when you are wearing loose, but covering clothing because the clothing does actually absorb some of the heat energy of the environment before it gets to you, so the heat from your body is transferred better into the sweat before it evaporates.

If you go bare, you also sweat more due to the fact you won't cool down as efficiently, and this means you will dehydrate much faster too. It's overall a very bad idea. Honestly, the most impractical parts of Tharja's outfit are what I think are the metal bits around her body,but especially her neck, since those will get insanely hot in a dsert. And the exposed cleavage, that doesn't make any sense. But if you remove the metal bits, the bra (yes, the bra, just make the rest of the material cover her cleavage too), and make the primary material she's wearing darker and thicker so as to let less radiation in, it appears to be loose enough to be an alright choice for the desert. But really, I don't think her design is practical, I'm just extrapolating.

EDIT: exposing yourself is also asking for the worst sunburn ever, and I'm not sure any amount of melanin helps you avoid that.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Irysa

[Ϲharlie]

Hawkeye isn't wearing "just a loincloth." Did you not click on the OA link I provided? He's got pants, too.

You linked the lowest-resolution picture you could find. Let's take a look at a higher quality picture. Where are these pants you speak of? All he has is a loincloth (or rather a kilt-like garment to be more accurate) and a pair of shin guards. Even if he was wearing pants, it wouldn't make up for the fact that his chest and back are completely bare.

I was very specific in arguing Hawkeye's design makes sense in terms of improving his mobility. It's not as if he spends his time walking around the desert; he comes out and fights off intruders when they infrequently arrive. From what we can gather, he spends most of his time with Athos and caring for his daughter indoors.

Whoa, hold on a second. Hawkeye lives in the desert. To say that he doesn't spend time walking around the desert when he lives there makes little sense. And Hawkeye's role as guardian would make it very difficult for him to spend most of his time indoors with Athos and Igrene. You don't see the police waiting inside their headquarters for crime to happen, and I highly doubt the guardian of Nabata would spend most of his time indoors for the same reason.

It's plainly obvious that Hawkeye's design is nowhere near as sexualized as Tharja's or Camilla's. Anyone who looks at my avatar should be able to see that, but it's really not a whole lot better as far as simple practicality goes. You wouldn't want to leave your entire upper body exposed to the extreme desert heat and sun, and you certainly wouldn't want to rush into battle swinging a huge, seemingly double-bladed axe with armor covering only your right arm and shins.

[feplus]

When people think loincloth, they imagine something like this. Hawkeye plainly has his upper legs and midsection covered.

I didn't say Hawkeye doesn't spend time in the desert. I said he doesn't spend prolonged time in the desert. It's... a desert. Not a whole lot going on. The rare visitor or bandit, but otherwise Hawkeye spends most of his time in Arcadia or with Athos. Read his supports with Ninian and Louise.

Hawkeye and Igrene are both quite tan, so yes, the scorching desert sun does affect them.

[The Geek]

I think Hawkeye's design is less about being sexual/empowering/whatever and more about trying to invoke an image. The kind of (I don't know if this is quite the right word for it) romanticized image of the shirtless barbarian. It's a stereotype is what I'm getting at.