DRTJR Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 @Thor Odinson That said, there are only few cases of fanservice on his designs that are his doing. Like, pick the entire Awakening cast, the only characters that are blatantly fanservicey and 'stripperific' are Tharja and Aversa. It seems to be the same regarding If, only Camilia falls into that classification, from all the female characters we've seen. So yes, even if I agree with you that in some cases his design choices aren't the best ones, he hits the bull's eye most of the time. I do find him a decent artist, for that matter. btw, totally unrelated to the thread, but whatever. He seems to like Fire Emblem if he draws the characters spontaneusly. You forgot Cherche and her maid armor, which bugs me more than the spell casters running around in coth because Wyvern riders are supposed to be armored. The designs are really hit or miss for me, I love Walhart's, Owain's, Henery's, Aversa's, and the MU's design but there are some stinkers like Cherche in the mix as well. Overall I like not only his work but his zeal for it as well. but and it's a big but I loath some of his designs, particularly the maids and decorative cage flourishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Censoring Camilla's outfit would be ridiculous. We are going to be playing a game in which we, the player, will likely be responsible for what is essentially murder. A game which prominently features death and human suffering. Arguably worse, many of us intend to play a path in which we know the side we fight on in the war will be, at least for a time, morally questionable at best, and we will kill enemy soldiers who oppose us. By comparison, the level of exposure of Camilla's anatomy should not even be a blip on the radar for things we should be offended by. It's a stupid outfit, we all agree on that, and I've already commented that I personally would be delighted if it is swapped out for something better by the design team, but I think censoring it sends all kind of wrong messages. I don't think most people were serious about the censoring part, at least I wasn't. If I wanted it censored it would be to save my eyes from her bad design, not because I was offended. Hell, I'd completely remove the voice actress for Sakura in my playthrough if I could. We all want to pick some raisins out of the cookie, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Respite&Nepenthe Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 The female body shouldn't automatically be sexual or offensive to the viewer. I mean, Berserkers just wear a loin cloth and people don't lose their composure. That said, sexual is obviously what the designers were going for, and THAT is what's offensive, in my mind. It isn't practical, it's not a well-designed outfit, and it's not attractive. Er...rant over. My bad. Not trying to argue with anyone, that's just my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dap005 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Censorship would I feel just mive the discussion away from the seriourly common trope of of fanservice in games and itger media. Is better to make fun of the trope (or turn it on its head like what perfect blue did), to bring attention just how silly it's become. Regional censorship just tries to hide that aspect of a fanservice heavy media culture. As someone who has played and watched so much stuff from Japan my biggest gripes was how fanservice usually turns characters into either uninteresting stereotypes (even the male characters) or distract from the character dev scenes. You want them to ve viewed as a human theb focusing on their face would be better than what panties they're potentially wearing. Funnily enough I always thought fe's characters were always more interesting due to the existence of support convos. Though I'm afraid going down the fanservicey route will alienate some fans/potential fans. Considering how one of the reasons I became engrossed in FE (other than gameplay) was the cast of characters that went beyond how fantasy men and women were usually portrayaled (not to mention that it had a 1:1 ratio cast compared to the usual 3:1 gender set up in Hollywood and mainstream games). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimgrim Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Eh, he's okayish, I guess? I mean, I tend to not really care that much about the art design of a game as long as it doesn't hurt my eyes and I generally don't focus too much on characters' outfits in games in general, I see it as a case of it is fiction/fantasy and that they can take any creative liberties they want and it is their characters and they can do what they want with them. I don't really care if a character is sexualized or whatever or if it doesn't make sense or crap like that, one of the reasons I play games is to get away from "realism" stuff so I guess I just have a higher thresh-hold for absurd stuff lol. That said I still generally prefer the art style of the Tellius games more, overall, but that is because I find them more pleasing on the eye for the most part, though, there are a certain few characters from Awakening that like just as much, or better, in terms of design (Olivia being the prime example). Edited May 1, 2015 by mimgrim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Considering how one of the reasons I became engrossed in FE (other than gameplay) was the cast of characters that went beyond how fantasy men and women were usually portrayaled (not to mention that it had a 1:1 ratio cast compared to the usual 3:1 gender set up in Hollywood and mainstream games). Fire Emblem didn't really attain 1:1 gender balance until Awakening. If you go look through the PC casts of the older games, it actually tends closer to 2:1, going significantly higher for some games (e.g. FE1/3 and their remakes). The most balanced PC cast prior to Awakening was Radiant Dawn which has 43 men and 25 women in its PC cast (and the NPC cast skews very male, in almost every FE). ... still, 2:1 is a lot better than some of the things you cite, so I'm not disagreeing with your broader point. Regardless, I do hope that even if the level of fanservice in FE is increasing (which seems possible, depending on what gets included on that label), it doesn't negatively impact the character work. There's certainly no good reason why it should... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Fanservice isn't inherently bad, and sexy designs have been present in the series history. The difference historically is that they usually fit the character (which, to be fair, it could be a part of camilla's personality so I'll hold out on that), and mostly fit the classes (I was never a fan of miniskirt wyvern riders and never will be, however) and for the most part weren't so blatant in-your-face kind or going to far that it actually becomes a detriment to the overall aesthetic of the design. If you're gonna do fanservice? Make it actually look good. I mean, even out of Kozaki's designs alone, for example, I had no issues with Tiki's design having some sex appeal because it wasn't really that intrusive and she turns into a giant dragon to fight, anyway. The design itself didn't look like a mishmash of elements thrown together-all the design elements worked with each other decently, and it was aesthetically pleasing. However, there do needs to be more female characters wearing trousers. Trousers can be designed just as aesthetically pleasing, while being more fitting to some characters' personalities. Women didn't fight for the right to wear pants only to get denied them anyway. I feel like skirts being the majority is actually very limiting on the scope of designs a designer can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Kozaki does men. Boy, do I like the male designs. Women are hit-or-miss - I really liked Miriel's design, but why the hell is Flavia in a miniskirt, and Sully not wearing pants? FE14's two largish arts of women are worse - two left feet nonwithstanding, Kamui's got a hole in her pants, and she's on her tiptoes. Aqua is wearing half a set of leggings (the missing leg being on the same side as the slit on her dress), and she's ALSO on tiptoes. Would it really be such a bad thing if Ms. Kamui had a complete set of pants, Aqua didn't reveal what's under her dress, and both of them were drawn with their feet flat on the ground? Don't get me started on Camilla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami922 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Kozaki does men. Boy, do I like the male designs. Women are hit-or-miss - I really liked Miriel's design, but why the hell is Flavia in a miniskirt, and Sully not wearing pants? FE14's two largish arts of women are worse - two left feet nonwithstanding, Kamui's got a hole in her pants, and she's on her tiptoes. Aqua is wearing half a set of leggings (the missing leg being on the same side as the slit on her dress), and she's ALSO on tiptoes. Would it really be such a bad thing if Ms. Kamui had a complete set of pants, Aqua didn't reveal what's under her dress, and both of them were drawn with their feet flat on the ground? Don't get me started on Camilla. Why are they drawn standing on their tiptoes? I don't understand that. And what's wrong with Camilla? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 TL;DR of thread: FE girls need more pants, less pantsu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Why are they drawn standing on their tiptoes? I don't understand that. And what's wrong with Camilla? I guess it's more graceful? Ballerina-like? We can't have our ladies being flat-footed oafs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Why are they drawn standing on their tiptoes? I don't understand that. And what's wrong with Camilla? Foot fetish thing, IIRC. It also mirrors what they'd look like if they were in heels. --- Now, for Camilla. . .while I can't figure out the function of her headgear, or how that tiara thing stays in her hair, that's barely the worst of it. Next is that ribbon-sash-thingy. I suppose that if something similar was on a male character (or a flatter-chested female one), it would look something like this. However, it winds around the top of one breast, goes between them, and then passes underneath the other one. Women sweat, and that includes within cleavage - unless she's never done a single bit of physical activity in that get-up, that ribbon-sash-thingy's gonna SMELL. You'll also notice that her boobs are slightly uneven, and that one of them looks like it's ready to pop out. This. . .is something that I'm okay with, because women don't always have even boobs, and trying to design armor to accommodate for cup size probably isn't easy. Her armor goes down her torso (tightly, but I'm here to pick the huge issues), and ends in. . .the HELL are those things by her hips?! Like, if I'm going to be riding a mount, the last thing I want is something with inverted pointy things, right next to my thighs! Absolute worst case scenario is that they hit my mount, and that won't end well. Also, her armor ends just shy of her leggings-line. While the odds of taking a hit over there are low, I'd rather not take chances. That thing she's wearing on the bottom looks like they're leggings - if you check the semi-transparent loincloth, you'll see a design on her far leg, which matches the one on her near leg. I don't know what it is about Nohr and people who don't have a proper set of pants, but it's quite annoying (Ms. Kamui does that, too). It wouldn't surprise me if she was wearing heeled boots, but I think it would be justified, as kicking a wyvern into gear is probably harder than nudging a horse. Normally, I'd chalk it up to bad taste. On the right side of the picture I linked is Constipated Robin/Blarth/Pretty Blond Boy. Compare his armor to hers - a lot more functional (since they're both mounted units), and still looks intimidating. He's also got the "hole in thigh" syndrome, too, but unlike the ladies, he wears a pair of pants underneath. Now, it can be argued that she flies and he doesn't, so he can wear heavier stuff, but if that was the case, the stuff by her hips would look more like his, and pants do NOT weigh that much! tl;dr - Why can't women wear pants and look practical? The men look awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) On the right side of the picture I linked is Constipated Robin/Blarth/Pretty Blond Boy. Compare his armor to hers - a lot more functional (since they're both mounted units), and still looks intimidating. He's also got the "hole in thigh" syndrome, too, but unlike the ladies, he wears a pair of pants underneath. I did not realize this until I did a double take. Although if I recall correctly, male paladins in Awakening basically did the same thing. Is this some new trendy fashion thing I'm not aware of? Currently I have no problem with the male designs for FE:if (well, the ones I've seen at least). Hoshido women seem to be all right for the most part. Nohr women, on the other hand, ranges from sensible (troubadour) to trainwreck (Camilla). Also, why does Aqua have a random hole on the left side of her dress? Edited May 1, 2015 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Fortunately this Nohrian cavalier girl here doesn't seem to be wearing nonsensical outfit. Don't know what's that pink headphone-like thing she's wearing though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Fortunately this Nohrian cavalier girl here doesn't seem to be wearing nonsensical outfit. Don't know what's that pink headphone-like thing she's wearing though... maybe it's a flower on a headband? I'm pretty interested to see her official art. She looks promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathtrap Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I really like his version of Anna. She was my favorite in Awakening the first time I played. He's definitely talented at making cool male characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sforzur Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Why are they drawn standing on their tiptoes? I don't understand that. Likely to draw attention to their legs in the same way heels do. Wearing heeled shoes and standing on your toes both give off the appearance of one's calves being longer than they actually are. Female Kamui's angled stance (as opposed to the male alternative's head-on approach) and crossed legs serve the same purpose -- not to mention the thigh gap... The fact that Aqua's dress splits on the same side as the golden garter instead of the one with a legging also reeks of "Please look at her legs!" She's flat-footed for the entirety of her performance in the first trailer, so her toe-walking habits can't be attributed to her dancing profession either. Fortunately this Nohrian cavalier girl here doesn't seem to be wearing nonsensical outfit. Don't know what's that pink headphone-like thing she's wearing though... At first glance, it looked like she had blue-to-pink gradient hair, but it doesn't blend very well. Perhaps a scarf or ribbon of sorts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Why are they drawn standing on their tiptoes? I don't understand that. And what's wrong with Camilla? The same reason why women are drawn with their feet aligned inwards (see Tiki's Awakening art). I absolutely hate that. Who stands like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) Edit: Double Post. Edited May 1, 2015 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meltlilith Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The same reason why women are drawn with their feet aligned inwards (see Tiki's Awakening art). I absolutely hate that. Who stands like that? I think the feet being aligned inwards + tiptoes (reminiscent of pointe technique) are meant to be a refined/graceful stance. It isn't realistic at all, no, but it's an easy way to immediately pick up on a character's personality just from one image (which is what the official art is meant to do for the viewer). Standing on the toes/balls of the feet is catlike and elegant, while standing flatfooted can be an indicator of a rougher personalty as it's a "weightier" stance tbh my main gripe is how closely fem!kamui and aqua's poses resemble each other in the official art :/ I think Kozaki's style fits the game well - I'm partial to his coloring at least Design-wise.... It's hard to tell. The lead art director usually has the heaviest hand in the direction of actual designs, and even poses for official art (because all of that needs to be able to tell the viewer what the character is like at a glance). I suppose I like Kozaki, questionable designs and all because his utilization of visual cues exactly tells me who a character is supposed to be (or how they want a character to be perceived initially) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The same reason why women are drawn with their feet aligned inwards (see Tiki's Awakening art). I absolutely hate that. Who stands like that? Quite a lot of people do that in order to look cute. Like you, I don't understand the appeal, but a lot of people obviously do. I almost feel as if it's harder to find official artwork of (standing) female characters in Japanese games that DON'T twist their legs like that - their kneecaps usually touch each other as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The same reason why women are drawn with their feet aligned inwards (see Tiki's Awakening art). I absolutely hate that. Who stands like that? I do sometimes... Though never to pose for anything. I don't mind it for like one or two females, but now that I think about it, a lot of the Awakening females are drawn standing that way and that's just dumb. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayra Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I always thought it was supposed to represent shyness. If someone is shy, they are usually represented with feets inward, if outgoing, feet outward. Kind of similar to shoulders curving inward vs chest sticking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBuster573 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Is Aqua not wearing pants on one leg really that different from Lyn or Erika or really most female swordmasters not wearing pants? I also assume Aqua doesn't really take a direct combat role as her singing and dancing is more emphasized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Is Aqua not wearing pants on one leg really that different from Lyn or Erika or really most female swordmasters not wearing pants? I also assume Aqua doesn't really take a direct combat role as her singing and dancing is more emphasized. Lyn's design put emphasis on her legs without showing her panties, unlike Dancina, which is why I was just baffled and annoyed and pointed it out. While true, she's also been shown to have a large, golden lance, which I think doesn't exactly help her singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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