Thousand Names Mafia Day 4

[Bossanova]

Still not a gambit. Just wanted to see if I could get something out of him before he died.

[Randa]

phase pause shut up

[Randa]

as the cannons roared poor rapier got destroyed.

rapier has died he was

Fitz Warus, Census Taker of the First Vordani Colonials

there are now 43 hours remaining in day 1.

Phase unpause

also for future reference please bold actions as it makes it easier to see.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Randa

[Bossanova]

Win some lose some. I didn't want to go back on my word and it was either gonna be him or Excellen. I'll swallow my pride on Vhaltz/Snike if need be because I'm not sure where the thread is heading now.

[Prims]

yeah uh I'm assuming Rapier was town even though the word order and name are different from the actual faction's.

That makes me more open to switching to Snike, at least. Vhaltz's response is closer to what I want from him, but before I answer him I want him to say why he didn't vote me off the bat, as well as tell me what his reads on me have been (both during the time he responded to my vote, and as of right now). Not moving my vote until I've seen what I need from both of them.

Paper needs an actual scumread now. His view of the Vhaltz case is shallow given scum can also end up in that position. There's a difference between spending time defending yourself and lashing out at the people who attack you. Is Vhaltz actually town or do you just not care for the cases?

Given Rapier's numbers, Bossanova is at worst ITP without a kill, but I'm frustrated with him calling the game a "clash of egos" and complaining too many words when his words:content ratio is pretty low and the only posts I'd consider close to an ego clash would be me and kirsche vs. Vhaltz. Too many complaints, not enough solutions. Bossa, if nothing else, talk to me about the Shin read you hinted at. His switch to Snike bugs me as well because from an armchair-psych PoV it's unlikely for a townie to be so easily convinced by their main target. But there are obvious explanations why town would do that, so I'm not about to vote him over Vhaltz or Snike as is.

[Snike]

OK, will try to give something like a thought process.

I think Rapier's going to flip scum because of what I said previously + fact that he called excellen's vote lazy when it was literally at the end of rvs. The flawed info thing comes up again but the whole argument is about sf meta which I think isn't really a thing? I feel like meta exists more on the player level than anything. And wrt the factually inaccurate thing, I think self-voting being scummy can be a thing regardless of who does it so saying that voting someone because of a self vote which is scummy to the voter's eyes is factually inaccurate is suspect. It's like saying you literally have no reason/right to vote x over y.

He died and I'm an idiot. Moving on.

My Vhaltz read flipped after my first post partially because I reread kirsche's 100 and actually got what he was saying. I then read prims after ignoring it initially because I thought it was a meta reason (town!Vhaltz would've put up) and made the second post asking if that case I thought I read was right because I don't trust my reading comp so far this game after I missed #100. If it was right I'd definitely vote for him. I was also going to ask if they took #86 into account but I forgot to do so that post.

Aside: I brought the Quote meta read up to say that I don't know Vhaltz meta-wise, so all I could do would be take Quote's read at his word. It didn't affect my read much if at all, unlike what Shin said in his vote post.

I don't like Vhaltz even more because of the dismissal of prims + swag's arguments. Might just be me not liking the tone, but dismissing one for perceived salt and the other by calling it a conspiracy theory. That doesn't explain why the latter is wrong and it's sort of demeaning to the person making the case. It's bad like the vote park thing. I mean he explains it later but the damage is done there.

@spotlight thing: You weren't really there willingly, though, and the no vote + fos on prims was an attempt to end that line of thinking, right? I admit you've changed that recently but that's a nulltell in itself because continuing do do something after being called out as suspicious on it is unlikely to be done, as either alignment.

Speaking of continuing to do something, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the 'shin should know

better' thing the same thing as what prims called you out on wrt him and Rapier?

So, given the flip,

##Unvote

##Vote: Vhaltz

I'm willing to make this a 1v1.

[Snike]

aand I walled again. Sorry

[Randa]

sorry shoulda put in mechanics section.

flips will be abbreviated and will feature a different alignment layout.

[Snike]

I should probably also mention I think kirsche is town because his like content and tone reads completely different from what I'm used to of him, as town or as mafia. And I like it, despite the fact that he's on me.

[MancerNecro]

Okay, the recent events happening in the thread has not helped me catch up at all.

i doubt that Bossanova is scum though because of his usage of his vigshot.

Gonna ##Unvote for now pending a reread of the thread. I'm busy at work now so don't expect a detailed post from me until the afternoon (in my timezone), sorry...

[Paperblade]

wtf is Snike doing

[Paperblade]

Like, I don't understand why you are trying to make a 1v1 here

[Percivalé]

OKAY I'M DONE WITH MY MATH HOMEWORK I AM NOW READING ISOS

Also I am pretty sure Bossa is not mafia based on that shot and I'm not gonna say anything aside from that and don't ask me. I don't know what Prims means by "ITP without a kill" unless he means ITP without a (night)kill but I'm pretty sure Bossa is at least not mafia.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

I see that in Bossanova, but ROse feels more like they just can't keep up with the content. How well do they play on your turf?

ive never actually played w/rose ive only hosted a game with him in it that was half a year ago

boss yu asked me about the vhaltz wagon. thats prims/quote/me. youre townreading the first 2 n hav me as null. prims is town/indy for me while quotes null. snikes gross but not as bad as vhaltz. tho i think theyre opposite alignments meaning gettin it wrong today has me knowing my direction tomorrow

so the wagons fine n yu shuld join us. its nuthin but ballers from yur perspective

lookin forward to seein where excel/paper/mancer/rose place their votes. low vote movement today has had me struggling makin reads

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

wagons are interesting. ive seen no 1 defend snike all game but has jus 3 votes while vhaltz has had A LOT of resistance against a waggon gaining traction. posting this in case im able to glean some meaning from this in the future

[Percivalé]

##Unvote

##Vote: Paperblade

I have a lot of townreads at the moment and it's kinda bothering me.

First of all I have no idea where I stand on Vhaltz anymore but my vote on him is feeling really stale because I definitely find other people scummier than him now so there's no point keeping it there anymore.

WHY I VOTED PAPERBLADE:

I gave Paperblade a pass because I thought he had more posts than he actually does which to me is already a red flag. His play reads lackluster, especially recently, and I kinda expected him to have a new vote on someone by now but he doesn't. Now that Rapier's flipped town his Rapier vote (#57) is actually really shoddy--it's based on a question that Rapier never came around to answer, and it seemed fine at the time but knowing what we know now and at where we are now in D1, it feels weak. I have no idea where Paper's priorities are now aside from that because he keeps commenting on the Vhaltz wagon and implying he doesn't think Vhaltz is scum and he repeats this continuously in most of his content (and it was all I could remember from the top of my head before looking at his ISO, which is also not a good thing). I'm trying REALLY hard not to focus on meta in this game anymore but Paper tends to active lurk as scum and it feels like that's what he's doing this game. (It's scummy anyway even if it weren't his meta. I'M SORRY ABOUT MENTIONING META AGAIN but this REALLY feels like lurkscum!paper right now. Like seriously just read his ISO.)

In Paper's post #188 he reinforces his Rapier question (from my POV this feels like him trying to justify his vote without really adding anything new to it) and I can't tell what he thinks of either Snike or YOLO despite commenting on them. It's mostly just "idk what they're doing their posts are hard to read."

His recent comment towards Snike also reads filler/detached to me. I'm confident in putting my vote here.

I need to re-read Snike but I feel really iffy about him too. YOLO is a complete null to me, I have no idea how to read his playstyle but although he reads proactive he doesn't actually have a lot of immediately-memorable content and a lot of "I'm gonna note this down for later" which doesn't really make clear what his thought process is.

People I wouldn't lynch today: Excellen, Bossa, probably Prims. Mancer was doing well for me early until he stopped posting, I'm assuming he's overwhelmed like Rose is (based on his last post) but is heading back towards null territory and I'm getting slightly concerned about this slot now actually.

I've already specified I don't think Excellen is scum, if people need me to explain this then I will but I feel like explaining my hardcore townreads isn't necessary unless I'm asked. I've already said my piece on Bossa, though. (That being said, a vote from Bossa would be nice, or something, because it's unclear where Bossa's reads are after that shot.)

I consider Rose null-town because again Rose's posts read like town trying but not being used to more fast-paced games/not expecting a fast-paced game, HOWEVER that being said I would at least like some more reads from them because all I can remember (and from what I can see) is the firm townread on me, then the scum read on YOLO (and the backtrack and reread and it changing into a townread) and the confusion wrt the Vhaltz wagon. There are zero scumreads here right now and I want to see this change soon because this definitely isn't the strongest townread ever.

Prims feels like hardcore town acting on confirmation bias wrt his Vhaltz read. His play felt detached at first which was why I was worried and I did at one point have a gut scumread on him but it definitely doesn't feel that way anymore. I've said this before but I feel even stronger on this after reading his exchanges with Vhaltz (and somewhat Bossa and Excellen).

COMING NEXT TIME: I'm going to read peoples' interactions with Rapier but I'm getting tired so I'm posting that later. I felt reading Paper's was more important though because I think he's scum. I thought this post was going to be longer but whoops. Also Shin and Kirsche¿¿ ¿¿? tune in next time

@bossa

Yo YOLO let me level with you for a minute and say that you remember those type of players who really are anxious to help town but dont wanna be misread or have their intentions mistaken because it will clutter town? quote reads like that. he seems very anxious and if it weren't for his modest attitude id be more about him but the little things he says like apologizing for how he plays just seems like a townie who wants to be understood instead of a scum who is looking to bullshit his way through things. someone is allowed to fight me on this if they feel that quote's behavior is not indicative of his alignment

YOU UNDERSTAND ME

[Percivalé]

My lynch priority right now is really weird but it's something like Paper > Snike = Vhaltz > my null reads (especially YOLO) since I just read my post and I already noticed I fucked some of it up/my priorities are slightly unclear aside from Paperblade.

When I said "I definitely find other people scummier right now" that was before I actually read more in-depth and found out I have more town/null reads than I should HAHAHA. I forgot to edit it out. I do think Paper is scummier than Vhaltz though.

[Paperblade]

Sorry for not posting while I'm asleep?

[Percivalé]

paper what are your scumreads after Rapier's shot

[Percivalé]

Rapier's death*

a

[Shin]

Bye Rapier, I guess we'll miss you?

I'd be interested to hear Bossanova's reasons for considering me as a shot target, you mention Excellen, but that appears to have been dispelled by inactivity. People like Mancer and Excellen kinda need to catch up with the game soon. My swap to Snike isn't because I don't consider Vhaltz scummy any more, it's because I consider Snike's approach to Vhaltz turned around massively very quickly but there was no real commitment. I never got why Snike was still voting Rapier, their reasons were really bad and it seemed like they were backing a Vhaltz lynch way more.

Prims has turned back into Prims again, his earlier content was bothering me, but #230 feels like he's back in the swing of things. Snike's made this pretty forceful between himself and Vhaltz. Vhaltz's case made it sound like he was scumreading Snike, but Snike's making it like Vhaltz has to be scum based on Snike's own alignment. There's no evidence that says one of them 100% has to be scum, which are the vibes Snike has. "If I'm town, Vhaltz has to be scum, rite".

Bossa's role doesn't really tie them to a particular alignment, although a dayvigging ITP would be weird.

I'd like to see Paper's response to Via's post before I comment on their exchange, I need to see a bit more before I can start coming to conclusions. It's true Paper's been massively defending Vhaltz for some bizarre reason.

[Vhaltz]

That makes me more open to switching to Snike, at least. Vhaltz's response is closer to what I want from him, but before I answer him I want him to say why he didn't vote me off the bat, as well as tell me what his reads on me have been (both during the time he responded to my vote, and as of right now). Not moving my vote until I've seen what I need from both of them.

The Rapier switch wasn't something I was outright scumreading you for as much as a switch that struck me as odd (but I could see potential reasons town could arrive at as well) so it was more like "if I HAD to vote somebody...". Would you have felt significantly more pressured from a vote at that stage as either alignment? I don't think so. I don't remember having something particular in mind when I decided not to vote so I either had that in the back of my mind or it was just a result of reactance bias since it felt stupid to have such a long and drawn out conversation to explain why I didn't feel like voting nullreads.

My read in #137 crept closer to a scumread because I felt like the points you brought up against me were easy BS and that you were riding the wagon, but I could still see you being willing to to do that on purpose as town like what happened with #HBC Zyth, which is why I still tried to word things as neutrally as possible while arguing the case like I did.

#190 and #191 made me feel better about you initially because I expected the response to be more aggressive if you were scum but #dumbmetareads. I'm still kinda bugged that you haven't responded to my question about your rapier switch since it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal for town to explain but shrug.

I don't get why anybody was scumreading Rapier with what little he put out but I'm still bugged the most by how Snike pushed his numbers claim as fake. Ignoring the claim as something relevant is one thing, but putting actual thought into it and concluding that it was likely to be fake is very potentially dishonest. The claim meant that Rapier would've been confirmed scum if town reached D3 into some kind of *yLo variant, and it also heavily rules out the possibility of the 3rd party being unlimited SK because town would be left with one mislynch before they have to lynch the SK to avoid losing (as long as SK/mafia don't crossfire).

I also don't get why town would re-case their scumread when they're about to flip? there isn't anything he hadn't talked about before in his crossed out paragraph. It feels more like scum going "look! here's my case and my conviction in it, watch them flip scum even though I know they're town!"

Speaking of continuing to do something, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the 'shin should know

better' thing the same thing as what prims called you out on wrt him and Rapier?

There's also lukewarm accusations that have nothing to do with anything other than discrediting my play. Shin and Via have played quite a lot of epicmafia games together, as well as both played as town in Shovel Knight where Shin didn't have any issue with Via's playstyle, so I'm heavily certain that "Shin should know Via better".

What are your reads on the rest of the game, Snike?

[Vhaltz]

Don't think it's anywhere near likely but if Bossa shoots again later on in the game he should be lynched imo. I'm operating under the assumption that he's town otherwise.

#calleditfirst

Via's latest post is rly good. Withholding judgement on Paper until he makes a new post now that his only apparent scumread is deaded, but mostly agree or can see where they're coming from with everything else.

Don't like Shin's latest post in his assumption that the dayvig is null in terms of town and scum potentially having the role. While that's historically correct in SF it ignores the implications of the game being definitely 9v3v1 after Rapier's flip. It's weird because as scum they should've read whoever commented on that earlier? idk

[Vhaltz]

The claim meant that Rapier would've been confirmed scum if town reached D3 into some kind of *yLo variant,

Er, if town wasn't in some LyLo variant in D3 following 2 mislynches and 2 kills. Although that assumes a standard kind of 3rd party like SK or survivor. Either way the only way Rapier would've been safe claiming numbers as scum was if he was given the fake by the mod or if he faked it as 3rd party and neither of them seemed very likely.

[Shin]

Don't like Shin's latest post in his assumption that the dayvig is null in terms of town and scum potentially having the role. While that's historically correct in SF it ignores the implications of the game being definitely 9v3v1 after Rapier's flip. It's weird because as scum they should've read whoever commented on that earlier? idk

I once made an assumption in an SF game that scum probably didn't have a dayvig, it kinda screwed me over. I didn't think that I ignored the numbers flip, there's not much I can say other than "yeah, that's them numbers".