Soleil/M!Kamui's Supports are almost offensive

[Kirokan]

Also let me add, the actual supports are about Kamui giving her powder so he could HELP HER NOT FAINT AROUND WOMEN... NOT TO MAKE HER LOVE HIM OR TURN HER STRAIGHT...

Yes, I said this above. I think people are taking issue with the way the drug was implemented, as well as the fact she ends up with M!mui after such. xD

[ClevelandSteve]

I think it's okay to ask the localization to change this, since it will be received badly in the West. But people need to think a little more about where these things are coming from, and have more cultural awareness. Not everything is made with a WESTERN mindset, especially with something coming from Japan.

Japan has it's own set of tropes and beliefs, and IS didn't write this support out of malice towards lesbians. The "girl acts lesbian but ends up falling for a man" trope is common in Japan. I think IS was just making this her character archetype.

Yes, yes I know people are going to be mad anyways, and find reasons to be mad. But people need to cut IS some slack. They didn't write anything explicitly insulting, just unaware of implications. And probably because these type of "implications" are not even taught or thought about in Japan the way they are on Tumblr or wherever.

I know I'm going to catch flak from the weebs who think GLORIOUS NIPPON can do no wrong, but saying that it's just a cultural thing isn't an excuse. If it's part of your culture to dismiss lesbians as just faking it until the right guy comes along, your culture sucks. Plain and simple.

Edit: I feel like I should clarify that, yes, I know there's a lot of shit wrong with American culture, too. It's just that saying "it's just their culture" isn't an excuse for shit like this.

Edited July 2, 2015 by ClevelandSteve

[nocturnal YL]

As an easterner, I find this insulting. They probably didn't meant it that way, but it is insensitive.

I'd blame this on the general marriage system; that basically imposed limits on the characters when they shouldn't have. Everyone's at least partly straight and not married? I don't care about its ethical implication, but it does make the character setting boring.

Edited July 2, 2015 by nocturnal YL

[Smartdumbkid]

I know I'm going to catch flak from the weebs who think GLORIOUS NIPPON can do no wrong, but saying that it's just a cultural thing isn't an excuse. If it's part of your culture to dismiss lesbians as just faking it until the right guy comes along, your culture sucks. Plain and simple.

Edit: I feel like I should clarify that, yes, I know there's a lot of shit wrong with American culture, too. It's just that saying "it's just their culture" isn't an excuse for shit like this.

To be fair, japan is apparently a lot less progressive than America. What would enrage tumblr and summon their hell fury here, they don't care about there. Sometimes you have to be open minded and realise that some cultures are quite different, and are impartial to some things that would deeply affect us.

[Somnium]

I know I'm going to catch flak from the weebs who think GLORIOUS NIPPON can do no wrong, but saying that it's just a cultural thing isn't an excuse. If it's part of your culture to dismiss lesbians as just faking it until the right guy comes along, your culture sucks. Plain and simple.

This isn't even about GLORIOUS NIPPON. (Wat.) I'm not saying everything is excusable because of culture, but freaking out over things that weren't actually meant as an attack on lesbians because of "implications" that they are not familiar with due to cultural background is ethnocentric.

In this case Soleil is bisexual. She has a preference for girls, but she is not lesbian. Read her supports with Foleo.

FOLEO: Then are boys unacceptable? As, um... romantic partners...?

SOLEIL: I wouldn't say unacceptable, but girls are preferable by far.

I think I can agree that some people are a little bothered that Kamui drugged her drink without telling her (once again, unfortunate implications they didn't realize), but the whole "therapy" wasn't to turn her straight. She said she had a weakness of fainting around women, which stopped her from being smooth and cool. That was what the therapy was supposed to "cure". Kamui was going to pretend to be a girl so he could get close to her until she stopped fainting around girl-Kamui.

Soleil: H-Huh!? So I can see you as a girl!!?

Kamui: Yes. After what you said, I wanted to resolve your concerns, so I thought it over a little. And it led me to a conclusion. Seeing me as a girl, you can use me to overcome your issues. From now on I’ll get closer to you until you can tolerate being around me without fainting.

The training in question:

Kamui: Thank you for saving our city! You were so strong and cool!

Soleil: Hauu!

Kamui: How was that? I tried to be like that girl from the town…

Soleil: It was superb. I was on the brink of fainting.

Kamui: Then let’s use this method as a special training. Let’s do it again at once.

Jesus Christ people. Basic reading comprehension.

[Kirokan]

As an easterner, I find this insulting. They probably didn't meant it that way, but it is insensitive.

I'd blame this on the general marriage system; that basically imposed limits on the characters when they shouldn't have. Everyone's at least partly straight and not married? I don't care about its ethical implication, but it does make the character setting boring.

Very much agreed with this. If you want everyone to get married somehow, you are going to have to seriously force some supports...

This isn't even about GLORIOUS NIPPON. (Wat.) I'm not saying everything is excusable because of culture, but freaking out over things that weren't actually meant as an attack on lesbians because of "implications" that they are not familiar with due to cultural background is ethnocentric.

In this case Soleil is bisexual. She has a preference for girls, but she is not lesbian. Read her supports with Foleo.

FOLEO: Then are boys unacceptable? As, um... romantic partners...?

SOLEIL: I wouldn't say unacceptable, but girls are preferable by far.

I think I can agree that some people are a little bothered that Kamui drugged her drink without telling her (once again, unfortunate implications they didn't realize), but the whole "therapy" wasn't to turn her straight. She said she had a weakness of fainting around women, which stopped her from being smooth and cool. That was what the therapy was supposed to "cure". Kamui was going to pretend to be a girl so he could get close to her until she stopped fainting around girl-Kamui.

Soleil: H-Huh!? So I can see you as a girl!!?

Kamui: Yes. After what you said, I wanted to resolve your concerns, so I thought it over a little. And it led me to a conclusion. Seeing me as a girl, you can use me to overcome your issues. From now on I’ll get closer to you until you can tolerate being around me without fainting.

The training in question:

Kamui: Thank you for saving our city! You were so strong and cool!

Soleil: Hauu!

Kamui: How was that? I tried to be like that girl from the town…

Soleil: It was superb. I was on the brink of fainting.

Kamui: Then let’s use this method as a special training. Let’s do it again at once.

Jesus Christ people. Basic reading comprehension.

Yes, it is because in that specific translation, as I pointed out, simply stating to cure a condition may make people assume they meant the orientation, rather than the immediate issue about fainting.

[ivanhellsing]

Jesus Christ people. Basic reading comprehension.

this is the internet dude , don't expect rationality especially from these tumblrdrones

[Awakener_]

So just another case of over reaction without any context... I lol at people calling this date rape.

[Baldrick]

@Somnium reading comprehension is important. If you'd used it, you would know that the vast majority of complaints are about Kamui drugging Soleil without her consent. Exactly one person brought up the "curing homosexuality" angle.

[Prims]

"well the character was bi so having to spike her drink so she'll marry you is only kind of bad instead of totally"

but really, homophobic or not the character writing in this game is hilariously bad, I wish IS had higher standards.

[Smartdumbkid]

So just another case of over reaction without any context... I lol at people calling this date rape.

Lol indeed, and I believe this thread still have alot of life left in it. It gonna get locked... but it would be an interesting ride until then.

[Awakener_]

Lol indeed, and I believe this thread still have alot of life left in it. It gonna get locked... but it would be an interesting ride until then.

There an article suggesting that Fates allow players to "strip" clothe off and turn out you just switch default clothe into "sexy clothe" AKA type of clothe you will wear at beach. Not any sort of stripping action is involved, I learned it from Gamexplain stream of Fates. I will just suggest people to wait for the actual localized game before writing things that can caused pointless drama and bad reception for the game.

Edit: Good job guys, now this shit is spreading in tumblr and is accusing Fire Emblem of anti-gay. Nice fantastic job people. Clap~ clap~.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Awakener_

[ProfessorBamboo]

I feel like this is partially our fault.

Lemme explain. Did NoJ expect us to datamine the game and have those of us that can read moon runes translate the text into English? Probably not. Should they have? Maybe. But it's not their fault for creating a game that caters to Japan.

LGBT issues in Japan are glossed over unlike in other Western countries, especially MURICA! as of recently. Fates was made in order to cater to the Japanese audience, not the US/EU audience, so of course they would fetishize these issues. See Japanese popular media for proof.

It was our own impatience that had us see this support in ALL of it's glory. It was because we were impatient that we are wielding pitchforks for something that may not even exist in the NA/EU versions. The Treehouse team is getting paid to do something, right? It's on them to make a game that was catered to the Japanese demographic marketable to Western shores. What text-heavy games have they localized? Kid Icarus Uprising, Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi RPGs, Animal Crossing, and Path of Radiance. And you know what? They did some damn good jobs with these games

Bottom line is: People are overreacting on something that is VERY likely going to be changed upon localization. What are they changing? What are they keeping? We, as fans, were scraping the bottom of the barrel, and it is our fault we found out there was some worms at the bottom. Ignorance, sometimes, is bliss.

I'm gonna say this right now, if NoA/NoE ends up changing some of these supports so that they're culturally acceptable in NA & EU, we are gonna look like idiots for jumping to some of these conclusions that we are seeing. And if these aren't changed, I'm gonna look the biggest god damn idiot that believed in the localization teams. Cause apparently, these guys do not give a damn at all.

Anyways, sleepy rant over. Feel free to dissect this all you want, I still believe we are partially at fault and that we are jumping to conclusions.

[Sunwoo]

Drop the attitude, Awakener. People may have overreacted at this support, but your being all condescending certainly isn't going to make anyone want to admit that they may have jumped the gun either nor is it helping the fan base either. People who want to go on about how the people who are overreacting at stuff are "so stupid" or "such babies" are just as bad as the people who are doing the overreacting in the first place.

Regardless, this support is just bad writing all around, regardless of the angle you want to look at it.

[Blade]

I read the support for Mamui...... It's pointless dumb fluff. It's fanfiction from Fanfiction.Net.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Fanatic&Ecstatic

[ProfessorBamboo]

Drop the attitude, Awakener. People may have overreacted at this support, but your being all condescending certainly isn't going to make anyone want to admit that they may have jumped the gun either nor is it helping the fan base either. People who want to go on about how the people who are overreacting at stuff are "so stupid" or "such babies" are just as bad as the people who are doing the overreacting in the first place.

Regardless, this support is just bad writing all around, regardless of the angle you want to look at it.

Let's calm down with the personal attacks, no need to get hostile. I'm just calling it as I see it and rolling my eyes at people with no sense of logic. Am I maybe blowing it out of proportion? Probably. Am I fighting fire with fire? Most likely. People won't pay any attention unless something bigger is in their sights.

Condescending? Eh, I've been called worse. And you think I started with Awakening, HAH!

Edited July 2, 2015 by ProfessorBamboo

[Othin]

Lack of awareness of LGBT+ issues in Japan does not excuse insulting portrayals of those issues.

[Sunwoo]

Let's calm down with the personal attacks, no need to get hostile. I'm just calling it as I see it and rolling my eyes at people with no sense of logic. Am I maybe blowing it out of proportion? Probably. Am I fighting fire with fire? Most likely. People won't pay any attention unless they get called out on it.

Condescending? Eh, I've been called worse. And you think I started with Awakening, HAH!

… Did you miss the part where the post was not even addressed at you?

[Jedi]

Let's calm down with the personal attacks, no need to get hostile. I'm just calling it as I see it and rolling my eyes at people with no sense of logic. Am I maybe blowing it out of proportion? Probably. Am I fighting fire with fire? Most likely. People won't pay any attention unless they get called out on it.

Condescending? Eh, I've been called worse. And you think I started with Awakening, HAH!

Way to miss who Sunwoo was even talking too. I see your reading talents are as good as your insults. (In referring to starting with Awakening is a means to insult someone with which Sunwoo started playing FE much before that so lol)

Edited July 2, 2015 by Jedi

[Baldrick]

Professor Bamboo, are you Awakener's alt account or something? You have BBM-level reading skills.

[ProfessorBamboo]

Way to miss who Sunwoo was even talking too. I see your reading talents are as good as your insults.

Probably, I'm tired, probably shouldn't have posted that in the first place. Oh well, I'll be going down in infamy now as someone who cannot read because I don't know how forums work! Thanks for listening to me talk everyone, GOODNIGHT!

Edited July 2, 2015 by ProfessorBamboo

[Smartdumbkid]

I feel like this is partially our fault.

Lemme explain. Did NoJ expect us to datamine the game and have those of us that can read moon runes translate the text into English? Probably not. Should they have? Maybe. But it's not their fault for creating a game that caters to Japan.

LGBT issues in Japan are glossed over unlike in other Western countries, especially MURICA! as of recently. Fates was made in order to cater to the Japanese audience, not the US/EU audience, so of course they would fetishize these issues. See Japanese popular media for proof.

It was our own impatience that had us see this support in ALL of it's glory. It was because we were impatient that we are wielding pitchforks for something that may not even exist in the NA/EU versions. The Treehouse team is getting paid to do something, right? It's on them to make a game that was catered to the Japanese demographic marketable to Western shores. What text-heavy games have they localized? Kid Icarus Uprising, Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi RPGs, Animal Crossing, and Path of Radiance. And you know what? They did some damn good jobs with these games

Bottom line is: People are overreacting on something that is VERY likely going to be changed upon localization. What are they changing? What are they keeping? We, as fans, were scraping the bottom of the barrel, and it is our fault we found out there was some worms at the bottom. Ignorance, sometimes, is bliss.

I'm gonna say this right now, if NoA/NoE ends up changing some of these supports so that they're culturally acceptable in NA & EU, we are gonna look like idiots for jumping to some of these conclusions that we are seeing. And if these aren't changed, I'm gonna look the biggest god damn idiot that believed in the localization teams. Cause apparently, these guys do not give a damn at all.

Anyways, sleepy rant over. Feel free to dissect this all you want, I still believe we are partially at fault and that we are jumping to conclusions.

I think this is the best post in the thread. Quoting the behemoth again so it is less likely to be glossed over. This was never meant for western eyes, and we basically made a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Baldrick]

It'd be a good post if the LGBT angle was the biggest problem with the support conversation. In my opinion, the fact that Kamui drugged Soleil without her consent is far more alarming.

[Smartdumbkid]

Lack of awareness of LGBT+ issues in Japan does not excuse insulting portrayals of those issues.

It does when it not directed to western audiences. What offends us here, they could very well not care about there. The lack of outrage in japan, while westerners are "triggered" is definitely a sign that we are raging over a trivial matter that doesn't pertain to us. The supports are going to be changed for the western audience, and everybody going to be happy.

[DualMix]

It's terrible. Terrible to us at least. We have mostly all agreed on this. And what people have said, that it's not our culture, that is true. All we can do now is just wait.

Hopefully the thread gets locked... it's tiring. Well it's probably my fault since I read it so it's more then likely just me.

Edited July 2, 2015 by DualMix