Kirokan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) I guess what I said (and feared) on an earlier post of people misunderstanding the vague translation on what is being cured the wrong way came true...xD I think on one hand gaming sites bringing it up brings light to the other issues (for instance on Destructroid I see people talking more about the drugging than the misunderstanding), but on the other hand still a misunderstanding of sorts. Perhaps if they change their title on the site about the drugging issue like people here are complaining about it may be better? Though, I think both here and there are really blowing up the whole thing. Rather than write about them being misinformed and causing another flurry of confusion, perhaps it is best to just leave it all alone...xD Let someone point it out there and such. That's just me though, there are a lot of people pretty passionate about one side or the other, or about proving them wrong, making them look foolish, etc. EDIT: Too late, some retards already sourced this thread for that Nintendo is making lesbian straight thing.https://twitter.com/Doomskander/status/616498460829876224I wanted to derailed that whole topic here but meh. Oh hey, I know her. She lurks these forums. I think she was trolling... and rolling with it. That was the impression I got when I posted on that tweet about the misinformation, pointing out people are going to take the sly pun very wrongly. I think if anyone took a look at her other posts, it would have been obvious. But as far as I know on Twitter not many people look. xD... Edited July 2, 2015 by Kirokan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viberum Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 No this is just wrong. If anything, change this support in the localized version. No matter the circumstances, slipping a foreign substance in someone's drink without consent is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Soleil is canonically bi in other supports anyways tho that's not really gay conversion therapy afaik, but then again I am not exactly an expert gay conversion therapist - maybe we should get one of them to help us out on our confusion here In her support with Foleo she doesn't seem to have a fainting problem, either. The support on its own is where the problem comes from. Nothing in that conversation indicates she's attracted to men. It starts with an apparent lesbian and straight male, the lesbian takes a potion that makes her see the man as a woman, she falls in love and marries him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ107 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Make some disclaimer on the first pages or something about this misunderstanding. That's a good idea, thanks. Edited July 2, 2015 by EJ107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abysswalker25 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Its just a badly written support and it will probably get changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 In her support with Foleo she doesn't seem to have a fainting problem, either. The support on its own is where the problem comes from. Nothing in that conversation indicates she's attracted to men. It starts with an apparent lesbian and straight male, the lesbian takes a potion that makes her see the man as a woman, she falls in love and marries him. yeah, I can agree with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniwhatever Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Well, this topic turned into a fine mess. I wonder if the translator had any idea doing this support would spiral this out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thief Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 So censorship is fine as long as we don't like the original content? OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 So censorship is fine as long as we don't like the original content? OK. And now for a key point... Censorship is never fine. Out of anything, now that the flames are rolling, this support needs to make it through unscathed. Much like Nowi did. (The one that lit fires? Playing house? It still happened...) Anyways, she's literally an example of a trope-- in this case "Schoolgirl "Lesbian"" which is ...a trap meant for hard-ons from Yuri fans. This game is trying its damnedest to appeal to every fetish under the sun [where's Makalov's vore? Last game (Inigo/Nah, Tiki/Anna), that's where.] so don't expect much. But really, you have a straight [not even bi] girl, have her act as clearly lesbian as possible while young, and then later she's expected to move on to guys. It's a common trope. And Soleil hits it on hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartdumbkid Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Can't believe I witnessed the birth of this stupidity. The convo wasn't even that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_Oneofakind Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Can't believe I witnessed the birth of this stupidity. The convo wasn't even that bad. Indeed. This is just vapid sensationalism under the disgise of demand for social reform. For God's sakes, the same game has a character like Foleo, who straight up says that he wants to wear a matching wedding dress with Female Kamui in their S rank, and was told by the male version to don't care about what others may have to say about his feminine hobby of making and wearing clothes that he thinks is cute. And if the game was indeed spreading a message of homophobia, then Leon would be upset to see what his son is like, when according to their conversation, he's not. In fact, he actually wants his son to carry on his legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) The worst part of this is that a lot of it stems from a common anime trope. "In Japan this is known as "Class S" and is far more common than in the West. Due to the influence of Western female literature, the Japanese developed a belief that young girls are expected to have friendships with each other that emulate boyfriend/girlfriend relationships. This is considered a temporary but wonderful part of adolescence. They can then graduate from these friendships to "real" relationships with boys. To remain in a "Class S" relationship past middle school is seen as a sign of immaturity. It is expected that these friendships will continue into adulthood, but without the romantic elements. The possibility of one or more of the girls involved in a "Class S" relationship being truly invested in the other romantically is usually ignored." Nothing to see here, outside of "Characters are tropey... AGAIN." Edited July 2, 2015 by Airship Canon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Kamina Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) The worst part of this is that a lot of it stems from a common anime trope. "In Japan this is known as "Class S" and is far more common than in the West. Due to the influence of Western female literature, the Japanese developed a belief that young girls are expected to have friendships with each other that emulate boyfriend/girlfriend relationships. This is considered a temporary but wonderful part of adolescence. They can then graduate from these friendships to "real" relationships with boys. To remain in a "Class S" relationship past middle school is seen as a sign of immaturity. It is expected that these friendships will continue into adulthood, but without the romantic elements. The possibility of one or more of the girls involved in a "Class S" relationship being truly invested in the other romantically is usually ignored." Nothing to see here, outside of "Characters are tropey... AGAIN." Just because it's a common anime trope doesn't make it good. I know of the cultural differences, so this support would very likely be changed in localization even without these problems (Even then it's still insulting). However, regardless I would still hope for Soleil to be completely re-written as she is pretty garbage as a character. Edited July 2, 2015 by Monado Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It does when it not directed to western audiences. What offends us here, they could very well not care about there. The lack of outrage in japan, while westerners are "triggered" is definitely a sign that we are raging over a trivial matter that doesn't pertain to us. The supports are going to be changed for the western audience, and everybody going to be happy. Who is "they"? I've never seen any reason to believe that the actual LGBT+ people in Japan are any less concerned about this shit, just that any concerns they do have get ignored by the rest of the population even more than in the West. Changing the supports helps address the problem, but the fact that the conversation even exists in the Japanese version is still an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landmaster Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Just wanted to give my two cents on the matter after lurking for a while. As bad as this support may seem, I think a lot of people are taking this just a little too far. I mean, how many of us were actually gonna S-Support M!Corrin with Soleil anyway? I mean, if you weren't planning on S-supporting them in the first place, you'll never even end up seeing the worst of this support, so why would it matter? I say this because I've seen people say that they'll just flat out not buy the game any more if this is in the game, and I personally just find that notion silly (especially from people who didn't even plan on marrying them). This conversation can be entirely ignored. Secondly, this will undoubtedly change in the localization. I don't know how many of Awakening's supports were changed compared to the originals or even what those changes were a result of, but I think this one seems to almost warrant change. There's no way they'll let something like this fly in the localized version, if you ask me, not necessarily because of the "drugging", but more on the fact that Soleil falling in love with seeing a female Corrin and deciding to marry him though he's a man is almost absurd. It just plain and simple make little to no sense. Her character, from what I've seen, seems so out of whack with being so fixated on girls but only being able to marry men that I honestly wouldn't mind if they just rewrote her character to being boy crazy instead, or at least not as into girls. Not because I have a problem with her orientation, but because they way it's portrayed has just been done so poorly that people may find it more "insulting" or "offensive" if they didn't change her just a little (assuming all of these translations are somewhat accurate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) The worst part of this is that a lot of it stems from a common anime trope. "In Japan this is known as "Class S" and is far more common than in the West. Due to the influence of Western female literature, the Japanese developed a belief that young girls are expected to have friendships with each other that emulate boyfriend/girlfriend relationships. This is considered a temporary but wonderful part of adolescence. They can then graduate from these friendships to "real" relationships with boys. To remain in a "Class S" relationship past middle school is seen as a sign of immaturity. It is expected that these friendships will continue into adulthood, but without the romantic elements. The possibility of one or more of the girls involved in a "Class S" relationship being truly invested in the other romantically is usually ignored." Nothing to see here, outside of "Characters are tropey... AGAIN." Hmm, I felt Class S would be strange to have in something written by a shounen writer, but I suppose if they are trying to appeal to more female players, then perhaps? But I agree it does sort of fit that archetype, though I am more familiar with it going into senpai-kouhai relations among other things, which I guess doesn't apply to her too much, from what I've seen of the few convos. Been meaning to check her convos with males (that are not Foleo). Have any already been translated? If not, I'll take a look at the text dump. I'm curious to see how she falls for them. EDIT: Ah, it seems one with Siegbert was just added. It feels a little forced, as do many of the marriages in the game, but she swings to him pretty quickly on that. But a nice comparison. Funny how I just talked about senpai-kouhai. xD Edited July 2, 2015 by Kirokan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Indeed. This is just vapid sensationalism under the disgise of demand for social reform. For God's sakes, the same game has a character like Foleo, who straight up says that he wants to wear a matching wedding dress with Female Kamui in their S rank, and was told by the male version to don't care about what others may have to say about his feminine hobby of making and wearing clothes that he thinks is cute. And if the game was indeed spreading a message of homophobia, then Leon would be upset to see what his son is like, when according to their conversation, he's not. In fact, he actually wants his son to carry on his legacy. ...Except I believe he openly says in his M!Kamui supports that he is not bi, and just likes "pretty" things. But yeah, this has gone out of control. It's a trope. There's a tropey character. Be glad there's a lot less of walking tropes this time around than in Awakening. It's just sensationalism that gaming sites cash in on for clicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 ...Except I believe he openly says in his M!Kamui supports that he is not bi, and just likes "pretty" things. But yeah, this has gone out of control. It's a trope. There's a tropey character. Be glad there's a lot less of walking tropes this time around than in Awakening. It's just sensationalism that gaming sites cash in on for clicks. As has been explained over and over again, being a trope is not an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I made a post on the Destructroid article explaining the misunderstanding, the trope, etc. Hopefully it gets more upvotes to be seen, it's currently doing pretty well. I also confirmed that said twitter person who I think made it explode was trolling and was amazed stuff got on gaming news sites, saying she "proved something else about gaming journalism today" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I also confirmed that said twitter person who I think made it explode was trolling and was amazed stuff got on gaming news sites, saying she "proved something else about gaming journalism today" wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ107 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) The whole "It's just a trope" argument is so stupid. Almost everything is a trope. Plot doesn't make any sense? It's just a trope. Horrendously bad localization that is barely readable? it's just a trope. Game completely censored, who cares? that's a trope as well. Edited July 2, 2015 by EJ107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerem Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) I should note that Soleil isn't Class-S at all, because that would involve actually having a relationship. I think that one guy was thinking of 'Bait And Switch Lesbians' instead, which is a fair deal more accurate, but isn't particularly liked in Japan. It's popular with WRITERS but isn't actually a thing the LGBT community actually likes, since you know. They prefer the real thing. Soleil is just terrible because every single thing about her is 'likes girls', even the two known S-rank supports she has with men are "I fell in love with you because I thought you were a cute girl/you were a cute girl for a moment." Edited July 2, 2015 by Nerem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 If there's any crime IS should be blamed for in relation to this is their impotence in terms of developing a good story. It seems they've run out of decent ideas since quite a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soapbar Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I also confirmed that said twitter person who I think made it explode was trolling and was amazed stuff got on gaming news sites, saying she "proved something else about gaming journalism today" Oh man, GG is going to have a ball with this one. Like wow, verify your damn sources before you report on stuff ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackolantern282 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Lol at the ignorance and people being offended. There's literally no date rape or ulterior motives on Kamui's part. He's trying to help her talk to women with the potion. Sure, he did it without her knowing. But it looks like Soleil appreciated his help. Think Felix Felicis in Harry Potter. Harry made it seem as though he put it in Ron's drink even though he didn't, and he drank it anyways. To give him a placebo effect to aid him in his Quidditch match. What Ron didn't know was that Harry didn't actually put any of the "Liquid Luck" into his drink. Granted, this was kind of consensual, but my point is that both Kamui and Harry did similar things, with both having good intent in helping their friend. Kamui slipped something in Soleil's drink to help her talk to girls. Harry acted as though he did to help Ron with Quidditch. Same motive: Wanting to help their friend. The only bad part is that Kamui did it without her knowing. But it's not like it hurt her or anything. So, he should have let her know prior to giving it to her, and that's on him. But, at least he WAS trying to help, and nothing bad happened to Soleil. He just fell in love with her at the end, and so did she. Well, maybe she was more infatuated. And bisexual. But that's not the point. This really is not, and should not, be a problem. Edited July 2, 2015 by Jackolantern282 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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