CyborgZeta Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Cruz won more states than I expected, but not enough to halt Trump's momentum. At the rate he's going, he'll have enough delegates to secure the nomination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alertcircuit Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Bernie got his ass kicked, but not as badly as the polls predicted. The polls said the only one he was supposed to win was Vermont, but he ended up bagging 3 others too. Back in the 2012 election the polls thought Romney was going to win, but we found out about how apparently a lot of polls are only on landlines, effectively blocking out really young votes. And since Bernie's base is really young people, that's why that was. I read that Rubio was actually really close to winning Virginia and Mitch McConnell's really frustrated at Kasich because he's diluting establishment votes that would otherwise go to Rubio. I think Carson came out and said he's never going to drop out because people are being mean to him about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 2, 2016 Author Share Posted March 2, 2016 i read something about the party trying to draft carson into the florida senate race since rubio said he wont seek nomination. he'll probably take that soon, what else can he do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Yep, unfortunately. It looks like Trump will get the nomination, so we'll have to hope the lesser of the two evils wins. Lesser evil? Between Clinton and Trump? ... who are you kidding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Lesser evil? Between Clinton and Trump? ... who are you kidding? Who do you think I mean? The lesser evil is Clinton, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Is that actually so? What - apart from their position on migration politics - does Clinton stand for that's better than what Trump does? I think they're equally bad but Trump is the lesser evil between the top 3 GOP candidates by far whereas Clinton is the far bigger evil between herself and Sanders. Looking beyond migration policies I see a few things I can agree on with Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgZeta Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Thanks to her foreign policy, I could never vote for Hillary in good conscience. That neoconservatives, fellow warhawks, would rather her win than Trump says enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Yeah it's funny how Clinton is a neocon Warhawks in the democrat party, while trump is a 90s democrat in the Republican Party. Really does feel like the illusion of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandSteve Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Besides not being a colossal racist asshole like Trump, Clinton is the lesser evil for one other very major reason: the Supreme Court. Senate Republicans are fully capable and willing to stall out the appointment of the next Justice until after Obama leaves office, and three other Justices are around the same age as Scalia was when he died (Kennedy will be 80 in July, Ginsburg will be 83 in a matter of weeks, and Breyer will be 78 in August). Like it or not, the Supreme Court is pretty much the most powerful branch of government: they have the final say on any laws they feel like addressing, serve for life without having to worry about elections, and can only be overruled by an absurdly difficult constitutional amendment process. The next President could end up appointing up to four Justices, who will then influence policy in the US for decades after the President that appointed them leaves office. I'd much rather have Hillary Clinton be the one to do the appointing than any Republican. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuvarkz Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Honestly, I don't see any racism in Trump's words at all. Islam is a religion, not an ethnicity (And being a religion means it's a cohesive ideology, which makes it a legitimate target of criticism-In the same ways Christianity, Scientology or Judaism could be criticized), and unlike Judaism, it isn't heavily tied to a specific ethnicity. Also, Obama did place a temporary stop on Iraq refugee requests during 2011. (On the very same reason as Trump is saying: Risk reassessment) Also, as a side topic, related to petition in the UK to ban Trump, there are also two different petitions to stop immigration in the UK (And even if we assume that all the petitioners in the least signed one signed for the other one as well, we are still looking at 4 people wanting a stop on immigration for each 5 that wanted trump banned. Assuming 50%, the numbers become really close, or immigration ban signatures surpassing trump ban signatures if we assume 60% or higher.) And about the wall with Mexico and mass deportation, it's a matter of enforcing the law. They are illegal immigrants, after all. I haven't seen Trump speaking against legal ones at all. And while the overall majority of latino citizens may not like him, amongst latino republicans, Trump still has the lead. Edited March 2, 2016 by tuvarkz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Minor nitpick: Judaism isn't actually tied to a specific ethnicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgZeta Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Also, Obama did place a temporary stop on Iraq refugee requests during 2011. Forgot that happened in my state. To add to your point, yes, it is legal to bar the entry of anyone into the US: http://i.imgur.com/7hKdT8g.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuvarkz Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Minor nitpick: Judaism isn't actually tied to a specific ethnicity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions#Genetic_studies "Despite the evident diversity displayed by the world's distinctive Jewish populations, both culturally and physically, genetic studies have demonstrated most of these to be genetically related to one another, having ultimately originated from a common ancient Israelite population that underwent geographic branching and subsequent independent evolutions." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Honestly, I don't see any racism in Trump's words at all. Islam is a religion, not an ethnicity (And being a religion means it's a cohesive ideology, which makes it a legitimate target of criticism-In the same ways Christianity, Scientology or Judaism could be criticized), and unlike Judaism, it isn't heavily tied to a specific ethnicity. Also, Obama did place a temporary stop on Iraq refugee requests during 2011. (On the very same reason as Trump is saying: Risk reassessment) Also, as a side topic, related to petition in the UK to ban Trump, there are also two different petitions to stop immigration in the UK (And even if we assume that all the petitioners in the least signed one signed for the other one as well, we are still looking at 4 people wanting a stop on immigration for each 5 that wanted trump banned. Assuming 50%, the numbers become really close, or immigration ban signatures surpassing trump ban signatures if we assume 60% or higher.) And about the wall with Mexico and mass deportation, it's a matter of enforcing the law. They are illegal immigrants, after all. I haven't seen Trump speaking against legal ones at all. And while the overall majority of latino citizens may not like him, amongst latino republicans, Trump still has the lead. It would be, quite simply, a humanitarian nightmare to deport so many people. I am in favor of deporting any first generation illegal immigrants without children born in the States. The rest would then integrate themselves. As for Muslims, firstly it is pretty heavily tied to Arabs, Persians, and Turks, and since only one of those 3 makes up a large portion of the refugees, we can assume that there is at least some amount of racism. Secondly, an ideological disagreement is not an excuse to not help someone, unless they are, say, a Nazi. You could say that it is to prevent terrorism, which would be valid, but the idea that the morality of Islam as a whole is even relevant to whether or not we should help the refugees is absurd. I am also under no illusions that Europeans can be xenophobic fucks as well (I live in a country currently run by one of those xenophobic fucks) but that is no excuse for America to do the same.@Yojinbo, I despise Clinton and consider her a sell out and definitely worse than Sanders, but she is better than Trump. Trump is one side of everything I hate about democracy, Climton is the other. After some careful self examination, I have decided that the side where a screaming mob of ignorant fools think they have the right to do whatever they want because "the people will it" is worse than the side where politicians are just tools for corporations and ultimately little better than common whores. The worst the latter has given us is probably modern day America, while the worst the latter has given us are such gems as the Reign of Terror, the Islamic Republic of Iran, and the Confederacy. I feel unclean voting for Clinton, but I would feel moreso in not voting for someone other than Trump or Cruz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgZeta Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 As for Muslims, firstly it is pretty heavily tied to Arabs, Persians, and Turks, and since only one of those 3 makes up a large portion of the refugees, we can assume that there is at least some amount of racism. Please do not race bait. No one has said, "I want to halt immigration of Arabs, Persians, Northern Africans, Malaysians, Turks, etc."; Trump has only ever said "Muslims", and a Muslim can be of any ethnicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Please do not race bait. No one has said, "I want to halt immigration of Arabs, Persians, Northern Africans, Malaysians, Turks, etc."; Trump has only ever said "Muslims", and a Muslim can be of any ethnicity. Okay, I will admit that Trump has never said anything to that effect, however his supporters are unambiguously to at least some extent afraid of Middle Easterners. Trump is quite clearly exploiting this, I don't know if he's racist himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I feel as though Hillary Clinton represents the unwillingness of American politics to experiment, and that both sides, regardless of what they champion, are conservative on many issues. If I were uneducated and had no idea about how bad electing Trump would be, I would vote for him because he's something the people haven't seen before. However, being that I am educated and liberal (an actual, rational liberal, not a neo-progressive SJW that doesn't understand how unfair life is and that angering bigots isn't going to change shit), I choose Bernie Sanders because his policies will attempt to regulate trade(let's be honest, free trade isn't free), tax the rich(1% with 90% of the wealth, I don't think so), and lower student debt, among other things. I would champion that post-secondary education is unnecessary, but that's a dead horse that most people in my camp would rather bury under the banner of "Everyone is Equal" when they fail to realize that equality needs to factor in one's personal perception. Even if we in America are raised "all men are created equal",that doesn't mean we all have to do the same jobs or even have the same level of education. Equality isn't equal if it expects too much out of one group or fails to challenge another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirby9612 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Yeah it's funny how Clinton is a neocon Warhawks in the democrat party, while trump is a 90s democrat in the Republican Party. Really does feel like the illusion of choice.You hit the nail right on the head. But Trump is to the right of Slick Willy on several issues, like guns, abortion, and the death penalty. He is also far less hawkish than Hell Clinton, apparently, which might alienate the people that voted for W. In 2000 and 2004.To blah, Your immigration stance is a real shocker to me seeing how most people on Serenes forest take the most left wing position on.. about anything. No moderate/conservative. Edited March 2, 2016 by kirby9612 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 (edited) Please do not race bait. No one has said, "I want to halt immigration of Arabs, Persians, Northern Africans, Malaysians, Turks, etc."; Trump has only ever said "Muslims", and a Muslim can be of any ethnicity. lmao i'm 99% sure that trump would think that muslim is an ethnicity the guy is ignorant on every real policy issue and gullible to false claims or statistics that affirm his confirmation bias, such as the claim that 81% of white homicide victims were killed by blacks. the overwhelming majority of his statements listed on politifact are some flavor of false: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ the argument over the difference between racism and islamophobia in this case is purely semantics. to an individual as ignorant as trump, there is probably no difference. Edited March 2, 2016 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alertcircuit Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Giving Trump the benefit of the doubt on that whole thing with the KKK, he doesn't say anything that actually proves the accusation that he's racist. He is pretty blatantly sexist however. I don't agree with everything Bernie says, (not sure if the free college and medicare and heavy taxing on the rich will be good for the economy) but I gotta admire the guy because he seems to be the only one really fired up about growing the middle class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 they're worthy investments. what if we got rid of the police force? or firefighters? or primary schooling? people (should) have a right to education and safety in this country. extended "free" education (college) and healthcare (for life), paid for by higher taxes on parties that deserve to be taxed higher, or by other methods, is a fine way to do it. according to his plan, the numbers work out to be net positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) there's usually always a arab caricature/visual stereotype in mind when people talk about muslims. The "muslim isn't a race" argument is laughably disingenuous. Edited March 3, 2016 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgZeta Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 there's usually always a arab caricature/visual stereotype in mind when people talk about muslims. The "muslim isn't a race" argument is laughably disingenuous. It's also disingenuous to talk as if every Arab is a Muslim. There's a noticeable Christian (and atheist, among others) minority in the Middle East, and they are probably the most in danger of oppression. Especially those who happened to be living in what is now ISIS-held territory. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22270455 http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/263795-un-critics-wrong-on-christian-syrian-refugees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 they're worthy investments. what if we got rid of the police force? or firefighters? or primary schooling? people (should) have a right to education and safety in this country. extended "free" education (college) and healthcare (for life), paid for by higher taxes on parties that deserve to be taxed higher, or by other methods, is a fine way to do it. according to his plan, the numbers work out to be net positive. yeah this is great and all, but he has 400(?) delegates to hillary's thousand or so. people just dont seem to care about good ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 is that counting superdelegates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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