General US Politics

[kirby9612]

Trump has released his healthcare plan. Sounds similar to Kerry's 04' healthcare plan.

[Rapier]

they're worthy investments. what if we got rid of the police force? or firefighters? or primary schooling?

people (should) have a right to education and safety in this country. extended "free" education (college) and healthcare (for life), paid for by higher taxes on parties that deserve to be taxed higher, or by other methods, is a fine way to do it. according to his plan, the numbers work out to be net positive.

Those parties that you claim deserve to be taxed higher are the ones who are more easily capable of dodging taxation. Also, taxing large fortunes makes people with large fortunes avoid investing in the country altogether or looking for other countries with a more lax taxation for their investments, which is obviously something harmful in the long run. The classical and cliche'd socialist argument for "free" (actually indirectly paid by the contributor in the form of onerous taxes) lunch is awfully simplistic. If only it was possible, I'd hop on the boat, but it apparently leads to a waterfall. No matter how alluring in theory, it is a practical disaster.

[kirby9612]

This has already fallen upon Bernie's campaign.

And not long after he'll be

[Phoenix Wright]

It's also disingenuous to talk as if every Arab is a Muslim. There's a noticeable Christian (and atheist, among others) minority in the Middle East, and they are probably the most in danger of oppression. Especially those who happened to be living in what is now ISIS-held territory.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22270455

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/263795-un-critics-wrong-on-christian-syrian-refugees

eh, most arabs are muslim. most arab nations (if not all) have islam as the national religion, and have laws that reflect some of the teachings of islam. speaking as a non-religious (but come from a christian family) arab, even i know muslim = arab, generally. or pakistani. you're just trying to split hairs because the side you lean with politically is morally wrong.

This has already fallen upon Bernie's campaign.

And not long after he'll be

what? this isn't true at all, poor attempt at a joke aside. this bullshit about bernie's race being over is just that: bullshit.

yeah this is great and all, but he has 400(?) delegates to hillary's thousand or so. people just dont seem to care about good ideas.

superdelegates aren't a fair measure of the actual difference in votes. bernie is much closer to hillary (about 160 off). super tuesday isn't that big a deal.

so far, it's stupid to vote hillary because sanders polls better against trump.

Those parties that you claim deserve to be taxed higher are the ones who are more easily capable of dodging taxation. Also, taxing large fortunes makes people with large fortunes avoid investing in the country altogether or looking for other countries with a more lax taxation for their investments, which is obviously something harmful in the long run. The classical and cliche'd socialist argument for "free" (actually indirectly paid by the contributor in the form of onerous taxes) lunch is awfully simplistic. If only it was possible, I'd hop on the boat, but it apparently leads to a waterfall. No matter how alluring in theory, it is a practical disaster.

not if you reform tax codes (which is bernie's plan). how is that even a point to be raised? this is the same bullshit i talked to some other guy about (which he never responded to); saying that current tax codes are bad doesn't mean that the good ideas that rely on those tax codes are bad. it means those tax codes should be reformed.

please provide reasoning for that claim.

i suppose finland, norway, and other similar socially democratic nations are indeed disasters!

i'm not sure how you came to feel the way you feel, but i suggest doing more research.

bernie's race isn't even close to being over--claiming it is only serves to be detrimental to bernie's campaign.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Phoenix Wright

[Radiant head]

Yeah he's only 3.73% down in elected delegates. But still I'm feeling pretty pessimistic about his chances to win the post-ST states in large enough margins, especially seeing how bad he's doing among black voters (which boggles my mind tbh).

And the media has already dismissed his chances to win, which ends up being a self-fulfiling prophecy, when people think there's no point.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Radiant head

[blah the Prussian]

It's also disingenuous to talk as if every Arab is a Muslim. There's a noticeable Christian (and atheist, among others) minority in the Middle East, and they are probably the most in danger of oppression. Especially those who happened to be living in what is now ISIS-held territory.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22270455

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/263795-un-critics-wrong-on-christian-syrian-refugees

You really think Trump supporters are going to know that?

[tuvarkz]

eh, most arabs are muslim. most arab nations (if not all) have islam as the national religion, and have laws that reflect some of the teachings of islam. speaking as a non-religious (but come from a christian family) arab, even i know muslim = arab, generally. or pakistani. you're just trying to split hairs because the side you lean with politically is morally wrong.

Yes, and said laws often are shariah laws, which has in some cases borderline barbaric practices. The situation of women in Saudi Arabia is absolutely terrible (And honestly halal food doesn't make sense anymore with the invention of refrigeration. What was introduced as a religious law to prevent people from questioning it at a time when there was no way of making sure that pig and other products wouldn't spoil immediately fast in desertic climate should have been invalidated due to a very clear context).

Edited March 3, 2016 by tuvarkz

[Irysa]

I think the question of whether or not what Trump said was actually racist or not is of secondary concern to the fact he's been pandering to racist tendancies within the voting population to generate support. Not that this is surprising given it's America and both major parties have historically done a lot of that, but I digress.

Really, as dondon alluded to earlier, the bigger problem with Trump is that he just flat out lies about things far too much, and masks it all with deflection and insults. I've never heard or seen him make anything close to an eloquent explanation of policies.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Irysa

[CyborgZeta]

You really think Trump supporters are going to know that?

I'm not going to paint an entire group of supporters with a broad stroke, but yes, some of them are probably the type to think 'Arab=Muslim'. Funny, since most Arab Americans are actually Christians.

http://www.aaiusa.org/demographics

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-muslim-idUSMTZSAPEC2KV6J6AZ

It's still race baiting to bring race into it, when the ban has only ever been about Muslims, which cover a variety of people. By trying to divide people like that, you're also lumping in non-Muslims with Muslims just because they have the same ethnicity.

[Crysta]

Are we actually defending the potential (and likely) presidential nominee who has advocated for banning the immigration of people on the basis of their religion, for prejudices we can pretty much all guess at?

Really? We're gleefully going down that road again?

[blah the Prussian]

Yes, and said laws often are shariah laws, which has in some cases borderline barbaric practices. The situation of women in Saudi Arabia is absolutely terrible (And honestly halal food doesn't make sense anymore with the invention of refrigeration. What was introduced as a religious law to prevent people from questioning it at a time when there was no way of making sure that pig and other products wouldn't spoil immediately fast in desertic climate should have been invalidated due to a very clear context).

No one is defending Sharia laws. If you think they're horrible, help people get away from them.

I'm not going to paint an entire group of supporters with a broad stroke, but yes, some of them are probably the type to think 'Arab=Muslim'. Funny, since most Arab Americans are actually Christians.

http://www.aaiusa.org/demographics

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-muslim-idUSMTZSAPEC2KV6J6AZ

It's still race baiting to bring race into it, when the ban has only ever been about Muslims, which cover a variety of people. By trying to divide people like that, you're also lumping in non-Muslims with Muslims just because they have the same ethnicity.

No, I'm just noting that that is what Trump fans are doing.

[dondon151]

It's still race baiting to bring race into it, when the ban has only ever been about Muslims, which cover a variety of people. By trying to divide people like that, you're also lumping in non-Muslims with Muslims just because they have the same ethnicity.

come on, dude. the only difference between the trump brand of islamophobia and racism is that muslims aren't technically a race.

[kirby9612]

Yeah he's only 3.73% down in elected delegates. But still I'm feeling pretty pessimistic about his chances to win the post-ST states in large enough margins, especially seeing how bad he's doing among black voters (which boggles my mind tbh).

And the media has already dismissed his chances to win, which ends up being a self-fulfiling prophecy, when people think there's no point.

Do some states in the democratic primary have winner take all states after a certain date like the GOP one?

To Phoenix Wright: I predict Bernie will suspend his campaign anywhere between March 25 and April 15.

Edited March 3, 2016 by kirby9612

[Phoenix Wright]

Yes, and said laws often are shariah laws, which has in some cases borderline barbaric practices. The situation of women in Saudi Arabia is absolutely terrible (And honestly halal food doesn't make sense anymore with the invention of refrigeration. What was introduced as a religious law to prevent people from questioning it at a time when there was no way of making sure that pig and other products wouldn't spoil immediately fast in desertic climate should have been invalidated due to a very clear context).

why are you mentioning this

Do some states in the democratic primary have winner take all states after a certain date like the GOP one?

To Phoenix Wright: I predict Bernie will suspend his campaign anywhere between March 25 and April 15.

awesome

I'm not going to paint an entire group of supporters with a broad stroke, but yes, some of them are probably the type to think 'Arab=Muslim'. Funny, since most Arab Americans are actually Christians.

http://www.aaiusa.org/demographics

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-muslim-idUSMTZSAPEC2KV6J6AZ

It's still race baiting to bring race into it, when the ban has only ever been about Muslims, which cover a variety of people. By trying to divide people like that, you're also lumping in non-Muslims with Muslims just because they have the same ethnicity.

lol, do you even read the posts of those that have opposing opinions

you just keep saying the same thing without realizing the point you're making is moot

[Aestury]

So has the general opinion of Trump changed now that he has a very high chance of winning the primaries. From what I have seen people went from calling him a joke to at least hes better than Hillary.

[dondon151]

it's discouraging and also quite frightening that many conservatives prioritize keeping a liberal out of the white house over keeping an idiot out of the white house (and they are quite open about this as well)

this exemplifies the problems with first past the post electoral systems. sensible conservatives are currently proclaiming no support for trump, but i bet that they will fold before long. if the republicans want to win, even if it's a win in name only, they must back trump.

Edited March 3, 2016 by dondon151

[Crysta]

They want conservative judges on the Supreme Court, too, sadly - what goes for a Democrat goes for a Republican, too.

But there are exceptions.

[Alertcircuit]

We're going to be hearing lots of people cite the Supreme Court as the reason for why they're voting for who they're voting for this November. The next President could appoint anywhere from 1 to 4 judges, as pointed out by ClevelandSteve.

[ClevelandSteve]

Yes, and said laws often are shariah laws, which has in some cases borderline barbaric practices. The situation of women in Saudi Arabia is absolutely terrible (And honestly halal food doesn't make sense anymore with the invention of refrigeration. What was introduced as a religious law to prevent people from questioning it at a time when there was no way of making sure that pig and other products wouldn't spoil immediately fast in desertic climate should have been invalidated due to a very clear context).

1. What does this have to do with bringing these people to other countries? Unless we take the entire populations of these countries, there won't be enough of them to vote in these sorts of policies (most of which would be banned by the US Constitution and presumably the Constitutions of the various European nations they're immigrating to). And, after a few generations, the descendants of all these people will be pretty much assimilated into the local culture. I mean, my mom was the granddaughter of German immigrants and she probably knew less than ten words of German. Not to mention that both sides of my family were very Catholic (i.e. the "scary immigrant religion" of the 1800s, though my mom's ancestors came over in the early 20th century when that had mostly died down) but none of us have tried to overturn the Constitution and make the Pope the Supreme Ruler of the United States.

2. Who cares about whether or not a halal diet makes sense? How does what other people choose to eat or not eat hurt you in any way? Want to outlaw vegetarianism, too?

Edited March 3, 2016 by ClevelandSteve

[Dr. Rudy Mjølnir]

Hillary Clinton's real challenge is going to be to try and get the remnants of Bernie Sander supporters to rally behind her and turnout for the general election. Some of Bernie's supporters feel that she is a fake progressive and voting on her is the same as voting for Donald Trump. She will have to try and convince them that she will actually be a "progressive that gets things done" if she is elected in office

[Crysta]

Pretty sure Bernie himself would vote Hillary over the Donald any day of the week.

EDIT: Not that it has anything to do with her actual progressive credentials, but it they're really, really not the same.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Crysta

[tuvarkz]

Alright, one reply at a time, because I'm not sure how to quote multiple people in the same post

@Irysa: Yes, perhaps amongst the lesser educated amongst Trump's supporters it is pandering to their racist tendencies, but it is also noticeable that there's a degree of truth to Trump's words.

@Crysta: With multiple situations happening like the Paris attacks, Rotterham, Cologne, and Sweden overall, there's a degree of coincidence with the Muslim population variation. The possible degree of correlation needs to be evaluated more completely, and Trump has stated that the ban is temporary until the entire situation is figured out.

@Blah the Prussian: Cyborg linked a video about how immigration isn't really helping the issue at all some time ago, just slowing its increase and putting pressure on others to sustain the increasing flux of immigrants/refugees. If something is to be done, it's change in those specific places.

@Dondon151: Muslims, however, adhere to the same overall ideology (Because religions are fundamentally dogmatic ideologies) as a group, and said ideology can be criticized as well as people can be criticized for following that ideology.

@Phoenix Wright: You mentioned that the laws of the places reflected the teachings of Islam. It happens to be that shariah is a common factor in those places, making a link between islamic teachins and shariah, don't you think?

@ClevelandSteve: Actually, stuff like this has been happening. And honestly, Catholic extremism functionally died out with the end of the Inquisition, even if multiple popes didn't want to completely separate temporal from religious power (With the pope declaring himself a prisoner of the Italian state during the reunification of said country and all) until the past century.

About halal, it was me going offtopic about religious stuff that no longer makes much sense. I apologize for deviating on that matter.

[Crysta]

So, since this is just a matter of religion and not ethnicity, are we in favor of establishing a religious test for immigration and entry? Or is there already one established?

Nevermind the fact that they can simply lie about it. That'd be some epic screening, right there.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Crysta

[tuvarkz]

So, since this is just a matter of religion and not ethnicity, are we in favor of establishing a religious test for immigration and entry? Or is there already one established?

Nevermind the fact that they can simply lie about it. But maybe people seeking refuge will be truthful and will happily return to whatever place they no longer wish to be in.

Well, you could always offer them a piece of bacon (Or some wine if they claim to be jewish) and make them draw a figure of Mohammed. The truly fanatical ones probably would not be able to hold their religious extremism in.

[Crysta]

Forgive me if I'm reluctant to believe a piece of bacon and a sketchpad will make it less likely for a jihadist to get into my country.

You do realize that jihadists have been found with pornography, right, and that is also considered immoral? I don't think that's as failsafe as you believe it is.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Crysta