Fates 4Koma Kings Translations (COMPLETE)

[Sunwoo]

Another interesting about Female Corrin and her relationship with her younger brothers is that if she romances either of them, they become borderline dependent on her. Just look at their My Room quotes! Compared to the younger sisters, if Male Corrin romances them, this dependency doesn't show.

Now that I think about there are other male characters who become dependent on Female Corrin, such as Jakob and Siegbert.

Male Corrin doesn't seem to have anyone become dependent on him.

Well, Camilla, maybe.

But I do see your point. I don't use the My Room feature, so I can't say I noticed whether anyone becomes borderline dependent on your MU, but if you're right then that's kind of … something to note, I guess.

[Water Mage]

Well, Camilla, maybe.

But I do see your point. I don't use the My Room feature, so I can't say I noticed whether anyone becomes borderline dependent on your MU, but if you're right then that's kind of … something to note, I guess.

To be fair, there are more emotionally stable females than males in Fates and there are more male characters with low self-esteem than females, so that might have something to do with it.

[Thane]

Speaking of people being dependant, has anyone here played Ace Attorney case 2-4? Man, that's a gooood case, and the codependency of a character is treated with respect, and you feel so bad when Edgeworth tells them to "get over it" or whatever he says.

If only Camilla had been treated in the same way, perhaps she could've had a shred of personality.

[Abvora]

I know that I hate her brothers drooling over her more, because at least she doesn't drag anyone else down with her with the underwear joke.

You know, I've noticed something about how male Kamui and female Kamui are generally treated by fan works. And do keep in mind that I've only seen a small fraction of fan work, so maybe this isn't entirely accurate, but female Kamui seems to exist a hell of a lot more for shipping than the male one. A lot of her most common pairings or teases seem to be with her brothers, while the sisters bickering over male Kamui feel more like sisters arguing over whose brother Kamui is (except for Camilla who already has her own issues). Even with the servants, when they obsess over male Kamui it seems to be portrayed more as a joke and he wants to be more independent. Whereas with female Kamui the servants are just portrayed as being overly loyal and devoted and she tends to just take it all up like the moeblob that she is or something.

This explains a lot to me, because I've always wondered why I disliked female Kamui more despite the two being virtually the same character. It's not the character, but the way they are always portrayed in anything outside of the damn game. I get so very sick of seeing female Kamui in fan works because 90% of the time it's just something shipping related and how she's the damn moon everyone wants to love and protect and have.

No, you're not mistaken; Mamui only really gets Azura and Niles in shipping works. Femui has all four of the royal brothers, Jakob, Kaze and Silas, as well as a bunch of girls because that's hot I guess. She also gets sexualized a lot more, which I find extremely annoying. Heck, it's even happening here; off the top of my head I can recall at least one boob joke and one bathing joke with her.

It's interesting how a simple gender-flip changes my perception of that character. Corrin's peppy and naive personality I find more endearing on the male because it's rarer for media males to be portrayed as "sweet" and not weak for it, but when it's on the female I find it grating because it is just like every. Other. Princess. And you're right: when it's Mamui, people's devotion to him is played for comedic value and as something for him to overcome and be independent (since it's unmanly for him to be cooed over apparently?), but when it's Femui, that same devotion is used to show how ~special~ and ~moe~ she is, in the midst of her being sexualized and having men fall at her feet. And that's just. Agh. It screams wish-fulfillment and Mary Sue.

I mean, I know Femui in the game isn't like that. But by god, the fandom's--and now apparently IntSys's!--perception of her has tainted her so much for me, I just really don't like her. I'll stick with Mamui, thanks.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Abvora

[Water Mage]

No, you're not mistaken; Mamui only really gets Azura and Niles in shipping works. Femui has all four of the royal brothers, Jakob, Kaze and Silas, as well as a bunch of girls because that's hot I guess. She also gets sexualized a lot more, which I find extremely annoying. Heck, it's even happening here; off the top of my head I can recall at least one boob joke and one bathing joke with her.

It's interesting how a simple gender-flip changes my perception of that character. Corrin's peppy and naive personality I find more endearing on the male because it's rarer for media males to be portrayed as "sweet" and not weak for it, but when it's on the female I find it grating because it is just like every. Other. Princess. And whereas people do try to show how Mamui wants to be more independent (because it's unmanly for him to get doted on, I guess) or play people's devotion to him for laughs, they ALSO tend to play up how ~special~ and ~moe~ Femui is opposed to Mamui , while sexualizing her and making men fall at her feet, which is just. Agh. It screams wish-fulfillment and Mary Sue.

I mean, I know Femui in the game isn't like that. But by god, the fandom's--and now apparently IntSys's!--perception of her is tainting her so much for me, I just cannot like her. I'll stick to Mamui, thanks.

To be fair, this happens in most games with Male and Female Avatars.

The Male Avatar is usually sweet and quiet while the Female Avatar is peppy and everyone's favorite person.

[Sunwoo]

No, you're not mistaken; Mamui only really gets Azura and Niles in shipping works. Femui has all four of the royal brothers, Jakob, Kaze and Silas, as well as a bunch of girls because that's hot I guess. She also gets sexualized a lot more, which I find extremely annoying. Heck, it's even happening here; off the top of my head I can recall at least one boob joke and one bathing joke with her.

It's interesting how a simple gender-flip changes my perception of that character. Corrin's peppy and naive personality I find more endearing on the male because it's rarer for media males to be portrayed as "sweet" and not weak for it, but when it's on the female I find it grating because it is just like every. Other. Princess. And whereas people do try to show how Mamui wants to be more independent (because it's unmanly for him to get doted on, I guess) or play people's devotion to him for laughs, they ALSO tend to play up how ~special~ and ~moe~ Femui is opposed to Mamui , while sexualizing her and making men fall at her feet, which is just. Agh. It screams wish-fulfillment and Mary Sue.

I mean, I know Femui in the game isn't like that. But by god, the fandom's--and now apparently IntSys's!--perception of her is tainting her so much for me, I just cannot like her. I'll stick to Mamui, thanks.

Honestly, how you feel about femui sounds a lot like how I feel about her. I find that in the actual game, she's virtually indistinguishable from mamui in personality. But whenever I look at any fan works I can't avoid something that's basically shipping femui with a brother or overemphasizing her "sweet" and "moe" personality or whatnot. I hate the fandom's portrayal of femui more than mamui, and I didn't like Kamui to begin with.

[Time the Crestfallen]

This isn't really surprising, considering that the little brothers were designed to appeal to female players (I will gouge my eyes out if I have to say that again), but this comic can still burn for all I care.

No, you're not mistaken; Mamui only really gets Azura and Niles in shipping works. Femui has all four of the royal brothers, Jakob, Kaze and Silas, as well as a bunch of girls because that's hot I guess. She also gets sexualized a lot more, which I find extremely annoying. Heck, it's even happening here; off the top of my head I can recall at least one boob joke and one bathing joke with her.

It's interesting how a simple gender-flip changes my perception of that character. Corrin's peppy and naive personality I find more endearing on the male because it's rarer for media males to be portrayed as "sweet" and not weak for it, but when it's on the female I find it grating because it is just like every. Other. Princess. And you're right: when it's Mamui, people's devotion to him is played for comedic value and as something for him to overcome and be independent (since it's unmanly for him to be cooed over apparently?), but when it's Femui, that same devotion is used to show how ~special~ and ~moe~ she is, in the midst of her being sexualized and having men fall at her feet. And that's just. Agh. It screams wish-fulfillment and Mary Sue.

I mean, I know Femui in the game isn't like that. But by god, the fandom's--and now apparently IntSys's!--perception of her has tainted her so much for me, I just really don't like her. I'll stick with Mamui, thanks.

As someone who despises the moeblob personality for just generally, this can't be said enough. The way a lot of people write/draw Femui in the way you described has nearly ruined her in my eyes and this 4koma isn't helping.

[Sylphid]

Huh, I didn't take that third part as Takumi and Leo fantasizing about Kamui as much as two adolescent boys being curious/embarrassed about their sisters talking about underwear within earshot (also, girls thing, not sisters thing). I think I like my interpretation more even if it's probably wrong.

Doesn't change that it wasn't funny though.

Speaking of people being dependant, has anyone here played Ace Attorney case 2-4? Man, that's a gooood case, and the codependency of a character is treated with respect, and you feel so bad when Edgeworth tells them to "get over it" or whatever he says.

If only Camilla had been treated in the same way, perhaps she could've had a shred of personality.

That case was awesome! (For the record, the character you're talking about is one of my favorites in the whole series)

And from vague memory, Edgeworth essentially used their issues against them to get them to testify what he wanted in court. Though to be fair to him, what he wanted was the truth they weren't telling. And Franziska might have done it before him (maybe unintentionally).

But yeah, if Fates could have achieved that, it would have been awesome. Also, seems like I've been spoilered about Camilla, though I can only blame myself for reading spoilery threads before Fates was released in EU.

[solrocknroll]

I think that Camilla has a fine personality, and the joke about Leo and Takumi was perfectly fine.

I do think that Female Corrin gets too much focus, but that's solely so I can see more Male Corrin ships which don't really exist. Shipping is omni-important after all.

[Sunwoo]

This isn't really surprising, considering that the little brothers were designed to appeal to female players (I will gouge my eyes out if I have to say that again), but this comic can still burn for all I care.

Yeah, I heard about that as well -- that Leon and Takumi were designed to be eye candy to female characters. The way that they are written in a lot of stories that ship them with female Kamui really show that the writers don't give a fuck about their actual personalities -- just their looks. How can you like Leon or Takumi if you don't like them for their actual personality, both the good and the bad?

[Thane]

That case was awesome! (For the record, the character you're talking about is one of my favorites in the whole series)

And from vague memory, Edgeworth essentially used their issues against them to get them to testify what he wanted in court. Though to be fair to him, what he wanted was the truth they weren't telling. And Franziska might have done it before him (maybe unintentionally).

Oh, little Edgey had his reasons alright, but the person in question was close to having a mental breakdown - as was Phoenix. God, the writing there is just so damn good, I don't think a video game has ever made me feel more excited, and all I did was reading a bunch of text.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Yeah, I heard about that as well -- that Leon and Takumi were designed to be eye candy to female characters. The way that they are written in a lot of stories that ship them with female Kamui really show that the writers don't give a fuck about their actual personalities -- just their looks. How can you like Leon or Takumi if you don't like them for their actual personality, both the good and the bad?

Oh no, apparently their personalities were made to appeal to female characters as well, what with the whole 'kind of a jerk, but sweet and sensitive on the inside and a little insecure' thing i.e. what Harry Potter fangirls wish Draco Malfoy was.

[Sunwoo]

Oh no, apparently their personalities were made to appeal to female characters as well, what with the whole 'kind of a jerk, but sweet and sensitive on the inside and a little insecure' thing i.e. what Harry Potter fangirls wish Draco Malfoy was.

Well, what I mean by that is people who pair themselves up with them don't take their personalities seriously. Both Takumi and Leon have a complex maze of issues that are the product of their upbringing and culture and environment, and can't be resolved easily. But there are too many fan works that ignore the depth of these issues or act as if "TWU LUV SOLVES EVERYTHING" and being with Kamui suddenly "fixes" them. It's insulting. That, or people just interpret their personality as "aww, they just want to love and protect Kamui" and basically make the center of their lives Kamui.

I mean, this isn't unique to just Kamui. I've seen Leokumi stories where Leon and Takumi basically act as if they're all that matters in each other's lives and their siblings and retainers are just a footnote, unimportant. I feel a lot of writers, especially if the work is purely shipping, just don't have respect for the characters' personalities. It's just particularly bad with female Kamui because she is the writer's mouthpiece.

[Captain Karnage]

feCorrin is kinda hot

Huh, I didn't take that third part as Takumi and Leo fantasizing about Kamui as much as two adolescent boys being curious/embarrassed about their sisters talking about underwear within earshot (also, girls thing, not sisters thing). I think I like my interpretation more even if it's probably wrong.

Doesn't change that it wasn't funny though.

I'm still unsure about that

Leo should have the Westermarck effect seeing as how he grew up with her, if anything Takumi is WAY more likely to have sexual feelings for her

(same goes for mCorrin but for the opposite sex)

Edited May 22, 2016 by Captain Karnage

[Res]

I reaaally need to replay the Ace Attorney series. I've played each a half dozen times, but not in the past few years, so my memory is hazy.

I also interpreted this latest strip as Leo & Takumi simply being embarrassed by the mention of underwear.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Well, what I mean by that is people who pair themselves up with them don't take their personalities seriously. Both Takumi and Leon have a complex maze of issues that are the product of their upbringing and culture and environment, and can't be resolved easily. But there are too many fan works that ignore the depth of these issues or act as if "TWU LUV SOLVES EVERYTHING" and being with Kamui suddenly "fixes" them. It's insulting. That, or people just interpret their personality as "aww, they just want to love and protect Kamui" and basically make the center of their lives Kamui.

I mean, this isn't unique to just Kamui. I've seen Leokumi stories where Leon and Takumi basically act as if they're all that matters in each other's lives and their siblings and retainers are just a footnote, unimportant. I feel a lot of writers, especially if the work is purely shipping, just don't have respect for the characters' personalities. It's just particularly bad with female Kamui because she is the writer's mouthpiece.

I think I've said it before, but it's a case of these people wanting to date the 'troubled, but cute' kind of person but without having to put in any of the monumental time, effort and patience it would take to make the relationship work. In fictionland, guys like Takumi can be cured with nothing but true love (or, depending on what type of fiction you're reading, some good 'ol sexin'), but in reality someone like Takumi would need years of therapy and Buddha-like levels of patience, with no actual guarantee that he'll get better or treat you differently. It doesn't help that the game also kind of supports this, since he goes from literally telling you to disappear in Chapter 5 to 'eh, I guess you're okay' in Chapter 11.

Meh, that's shipping for you I guess...

[Res]

but in reality someone like Takumi would need years of therapy and Buddha-like levels of patience, with no actual guarantee that he'll get better or treat you differently.

I hear this said a lot, and as someone who heavily identifies with Takumi and think he behaves pretty rationally within the games, I'm never sure how to interpret it, lol.

[Thane]

I think I've said it before, but it's a case of these people wanting to date the 'troubled, but cute' kind of person but without having to put in any of the monumental time, effort and patience it would take to make the relationship work. In fictionland, guys like Takumi can be cured with nothing but true love (or, depending on what type of fiction you're reading, some good 'ol sexin'), but in reality someone like Takumi would need years of therapy and Buddha-like levels of patience, with no actual guarantee that he'll get better or treat you differently. It doesn't help that the game also kind of supports this, since he goes from literally telling you to disappear in Chapter 5 to 'eh, I guess you're okay' in Chapter 11.

Meh, that's shipping for you I guess...

I think there's a reason why there's so much focus on characters actually getting together, rather than the thing that follows; you don't have to get stuck on those nasty little details or portraying the hardships of two different people living together.

Also, people think sex solves personal issues? I get the feeling that the writers think sex is a lot more magical than it really is.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I think there's a reason why there's so much focus on characters actually getting together, rather than the thing that follows; you don't have to get stuck on those nasty little details or portraying the hardships of two different people living together.

Also, people think sex solves personal issues? I get the feeling that the writers think sex is a lot more magical than it really is.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsSex

I want to bleach my eyes now...

EDIT: Also this to a lesser degree http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IntimateHealing

Edited May 22, 2016 by Phillius

[Sunwoo]

I think I've said it before, but it's a case of these people wanting to date the 'troubled, but cute' kind of person but without having to put in any of the monumental time, effort and patience it would take to make the relationship work. In fictionland, guys like Takumi can be cured with nothing but true love (or, depending on what type of fiction you're reading, some good 'ol sexin'), but in reality someone like Takumi would need years of therapy and Buddha-like levels of patience, with no actual guarantee that he'll get better or treat you differently. It doesn't help that the game also kind of supports this, since he goes from literally telling you to disappear in Chapter 5 to 'eh, I guess you're okay' in Chapter 11.

I think the writers got Takumi's insecurities down pretty well in his supports, to the point where he feels like a very real and very relatable person for anyone who has gone through or know someone with those issues. But the idea of wanting to data a person who is troubled and being the only person special enough to "fix" that person is present even in real life (it's why girls go for bad boys), and it's very dangerous. True love isn't going to change anyone, nor can you force anyone to change. Love can help, but it will be up to the person themselves to change. Or to not.

Takumi is a good character and relatable, and interesting. There are some parts of his character that remind me of my friends. But I like him in the little brother sort of way. Even if he weren't the avatar's brother, he's too much of a mess of issues to be my type. I think the reason I ship Takumi/Oboro so hard is because it is only in their supports that you see the part of him that isn't an insecure mess. For whatever reason, he doesn't feel insecure around her. But you really see his issues in his supports with everyone else, and it's going to take more than love (more like a buttload of therapy) until he's all right.

[Thane]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsSex

I want to bleach my eyes now...

Just when I thought I couldn't get any more surprised. I can only imagine that it was both characters' first time and that they were really, really good, too. Good people have good sex, after all, or whatever that trope is called.

[Lightchao42]

You know, I wonder how a joke about Corrin's underwear somehow turned into a discussion of double standards between Corrin's genders, female Corrin's perspective among fans, and finally Leo and Takumi's issues and the ethics of shipping Corrin with them. And also Ace Attorney.

I think I've said it before, but it's a case of these people wanting to date the 'troubled, but cute' kind of person but without having to put in any of the monumental time, effort and patience it would take to make the relationship work. In fictionland, guys like Takumi can be cured with nothing but true love (or, depending on what type of fiction you're reading, some good 'ol sexin'), but in reality someone like Takumi would need years of therapy and Buddha-like levels of patience, with no actual guarantee that he'll get better or treat you differently. It doesn't help that the game also kind of supports this, since he goes from literally telling you to disappear in Chapter 5 to 'eh, I guess you're okay' in Chapter 11.

This is true, but odd coming from someone who shamelessly ships Corrin with a certain blue-haired, 'troubled but cute' songstress.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Lightchao42

[Time the Crestfallen]

I think the writers got Takumi's insecurities down pretty well in his supports, to the point where he feels like a very real and very relatable person for anyone who has gone through or know someone with those issues. But the idea of wanting to data a person who is troubled and being the only person special enough to "fix" that person is present even in real life (it's why girls go for bad boys), and it's very dangerous. True love isn't going to change anyone, nor can you force anyone to change. Love can help, but it will be up to the person themselves to change. Or to not.

Takumi is a good character and relatable, and interesting. There are some parts of his character that remind me of my friends. But I like him in the little brother sort of way. Even if he weren't the avatar's brother, he's too much of a mess of issues to be my type. I think the reason I ship Takumi/Oboro so hard is because it is only in their supports that you see the part of him that isn't an insecure mess. For whatever reason, he doesn't feel insecure around her. But you really see his issues in his supports with everyone else, and it's going to take more than love (more like a buttload of therapy) until he's all right.

That's why we love him after all; his and Azura's supports do a great job of presenting their issues in a realistic and relatable way, but I don't think I need to go into detail on how Takumi's treatment in the story is bullshit, especially the very quick forgiveness of Corrin in all three routes. I'd like to see a ship fic that treats his issues realistically, but until then I'll just put up with Leo and Femui loving/fucking the insecurity out of him.

This is true, but odd coming from someone who shamelessly ships Corrin with a certain blue-haired, 'troubled but cute' songstress.

Fite me

True, but I've never held the opinion that such a relationship wouldn't have issues, or that Azura's solidarity, difficulty expressing emotions and insecurities would be magically cured after having sex once.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Phillius

[Thane]

You know, I wonder how a joke about Corrin's underwear somehow turned into a discussion of double standards between Corrin's genders, female Corrin's perspective among fans, and finally Leo and Takumi's issues and the ethics of shipping Corrin with them. And also Ace Attorney.

What can I say? I'm a multifaceted individual.

[Water Mage]

I'd like to see a ship fic that treats his issues realistically, but until then I'll just put up with Leo and Femui loving/fucking the insecurity out of him.

http://archiveofourown.org/works/4487616/chapters/10201779

You might like this one.

It's a pretty good fic. Not perfect, but quite good.

It's Leo/Takumi, and it takes some liberties with the game's cannon, but it's a pretty interesting read, and Takumi is handled very well.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Water Mage