Pokémon Sun and Moon Demo leaks and Early copy leaks related discussion (Obviously spoilers)

[Thane]

But would it be good to the series in the long run? Would it be fair to the people who want to catch and train the Ultra Beasts?

I don't see this argument either; what about us who don't? You don't really get anywhere with that logic. Eight crazy beasts being something other than Pokémon wouldn't destroy the series; if anything I would've thought people would be more concerned over the non-Pokémon that look like eldritch horrors actually are catchable.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Thane

[The DanMan]

As The DanMan often points out, Fighting is portrayed as heroic while Dark (literally "Evil" type in Japanese) is portrayed as, well, much darker, brutal and more villainous. I'm pretty sure they won't add yet another Fire/Fighting starter, but hey, I was wrong about the bloody Ultra Beasts.

...More like, Ultra Lost Potential.

Dataminers found a new pokeball that seems to be heavily tied to the UBs:

The rollercoaster of perception and opinions, man.

To be serious, the whole shapeshifter theory was really farfetched- my main gripe was that they made them out to be very mysterious but then allowed you to catch them. Here, there seems to be something very special about the process- the ball can not be bought or sold.

Though you can catch them, there's still a lot to them that we don't know.

[Moblin Major General]

I don't see this argument either; what about us who don't? You don't really get anywhere with that logic. Eight crazy beasts being something other than Pokémon wouldn't destroy the series; if anything I would've thought people would be more concerned over the non-Pokémon that look like eldritch horrors actually are catchable.

Children. More of us 20 and 30 somethings might be buying the games, but this is a series made for CHILDREN. Not even youths, children. Very few children could handle the dark theme of people being and/or turning into monsters to fight and defeat. Also, like they said before, it ruins the aesthetic of being able to "Catch 'em all." If the existence of something goes against the very motto of a series, isn't that alienating the very premise? Just saying.

[Water Mage]

I don't see this argument either; what about us who don't? You don't really get anywhere with that logic.

Yes, but what about those who want to catch them? Is it fair to them? Sure, you don't want to catch them, but maybe there others who want to catch them.

Remeber that what makes Pokemon unique, compared to other monster raising series, is the fact that all those cool creatures are within your reach. That's one of the cores of the series. So it doesn't strike as fair to make some creatures unobtainable when there are people who want them.

[Thane]

Dataminers found a new pokeball that seems to be heavily tied to the UBs:

The rollercoaster of perception and opinions, man.

To be serious, the whole shapeshifter theory was really farfetched- my main gripe was that they made them out to be very mysterious but then allowed you to catch them. Here, there seems to be something very special about the process- the ball can not be bought or sold.

Though you can catch them, there's still a lot to them that we don't know.

Exciting stuff. With any luck, those aren't in abundance, and I mostly mean that storywise. Like, I hope it's not the only way to stop them and you're just handed one every time a new one appears.

Children. More of us 20 and 30 somethings might be buying the games, but this is a series made for CHILDREN. Not even youths, children. Very few children could handle the dark theme of people being and/or turning into monsters to fight and defeat. Also, like they said before, it ruins the aesthetic of being able to "Catch 'em all." If the existence of something goes against the very motto of a series, isn't that alienating the very premise? Just saying.

So, kids using faceless beasts from other dimensions is better, then? I believe someone once said kids can handle any story so long as it ends cheerfully, and I believe that as well.

The English motto of the Japanese franchise that went unused for many years as the number of Pokémon just swelled and pretty much came back with Pokémon Go? Well, what about the Pokéstar Studio Pokémon, then?

This is not even mentioning the fact that the Ultra Beasts most likely aren't even Pokémon.

[Nym]

Well in the pokémon gamecube spin-offs, the Pokémon are being turned into fighting, emotionless monsters.

And they did 2 games on this subject.

Also, as one of the youngest person here, I can remember playing at 6 or 7 and not even caring about the stories of my games, children just want to play.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Nym

[Konnor97]

I doubt it in either case, Ice type gets utterly shafted every generation and if you think a Wrestler isn't going to be Fighting type, you have some odd foresight if that ends up being right.

It's a yeti crab. I'd be surprised if it didn't gain Ice typing. Yeah Ice types get shafted often, but I have hope. Also Crabrawler's entry on the site says it aims for higher position both socially and literally. So I'm assuming that some Crabrawler climb up to the tops of snowy mountains, reaching the peak of their training, figuratively and literally. It evolves in the snowy mountains, and it's boxing gloves become those boxing pads to train other Crabrawler now that it has retired.

As for Litten3, there's the heel wrestler stuff (being based on Tiger Mask, a famous heel wrestler, the concept art page with it spitting something at the opponent and using its belt for a sneak attack) and Torracat's entry on the site says it "attacks so relentlessly that its opponents lose the will to fight." Also if we assume that those moves that were unscrubbed in the demo (Laser Shot, Throat Chop, and Aurora Veil) are the starters' signature moves, a rather safe assumption, Throat Chop is the dirtiest/darkest move you can have outside of Crotch Kick.

Now I could be wrong on both of those, and if I am I'd be the first to admit it.

As for my outside-of-argument two-cents regarding UB, I bet they're gonna justify catching UB with something dumb like they're actually pokemon from a different dimension, and the new UB Ball is from their dimension, with different technology from our dimension, which can explain why we can't just chuck a Master Ball at them.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Konnor97

[Water Mage]

So, kids using faceless beasts from other dimensions is better, then? I believe someone once said kids can handle any story so long as it ends cheerfully, and I believe that as well.

The English motto of the Japanese franchise that went unused for many years as the number of Pokémon just swelled and pretty much came back with Pokémon Go? Well, what about the Pokéstar Studio Pokémon, then?

This is not even mentioning the fact that the Ultra Beasts most likely aren't even Pokémon.

The things from Pokestar were mostly inanimate objects like doors and ships. They also didn't play a role in the story.

On the other hand, the Ultra Beasts play a role in the story, and you will see them fighting. And what does it matter if they aren't Pokemon? It doesn't change the fact that there will be people who want to catch them, and it won't change the fact that one of the major points of Pokemon is the fact that all these cool creatures are in your reach.

Again, it's not fair to the people who want to catch them, after all why do people do play Pokemon in the first place?

Edited October 19, 2016 by Water Mage

[Emerson]

The things from Pokestar were mostly inanimate objects like doors and ships. They also didn't play a role in the story.

Yeah, and a frickin' GIANT ROBOT TYRANITAR

Who doesn't want to battle with that!

Ahem, back on topic...

I do agree that it kinda goes against the rules of Pokemon to make them non-playable. Besides, people would've hacked them in to make them playable anyways.

I had a little theory that you got copies of the UBs to battle with, but that new Pokeball pretty much shattered it to pieces.

I wonder if we actually get 8 of the balls, or maybe can can only catch so many while the others must be defeated...

[The DanMan]

To take a break from arguments over the UBs, who else is surprised at the amount of Pokemon that don't evolve?

Komala and Pyukumuku look very basic, and I had Cutiefly pegged as a three-stage 'mon.

[Emerson]

To take a break from arguments over the UBs, who else is surprised at the amount of Pokemon that don't evolve?

Komala and Pyukumuku look very basic, and I had Cutiefly pegged as a three-stage 'mon.

Kinda makes you think maybe we don't have every Pokemon yet, eeeeeeeh?

We... do have some chance of not having everything, right?

[Magical Glace]

Well in the pokémon gamecube spin-offs, the Pokémon are being turned into fighting, emotionless monsters.

And they did 2 games on this subject.

Also, as one of the youngest person here, I can remember playing at 6 or 7 and not even caring about the stories of my games, children just want to play.

Yeah, back when I first played OoT I generally didn't care about what was happening.

Looking back on it now I find it underwhelming, in terms of plot and level design, but back then I just didn't care.

[Nym]

Pokémon that don't evolve usually end up being crap, there's a few exceptions but I can name a lot of Pokémons (Mega evolution doesn't count)

[The DanMan]

Kinda makes you think maybe we don't have every Pokemon yet, eeeeeeeh?

We... do have some chance of not having everything, right?

We've got 'em all. The blank spots are almost certainly for Totem Pokemon (the reason there's two after Mimikyu is due to it having technically two different forms), and counting UB's we have the exact amount of new slots in the dex accounted for.

[Emeraldfox]

We've got 'em all. The blank spots are almost certainly for Totem Pokemon (the reason there's two after Mimikyu is due to it having technically two different forms), and counting UB's we have the exact amount of new slots in the dex accounted for.

That doesn't really make sense to me. If they are totems then why are they missing? This isn't like the Ultra Beasts being humans thing is it.

[The DanMan]

That doesn't really make sense to me. If they are totems then why are they missing? This isn't like the Ultra Beasts being humans thing is it.

Two of them are right after Gumshoos and Lurantis, confirmed Totem Pokemon. Plus, Totem Pokemon have larger models than their normal forms.

[Konnor97]

Two of them are right after Gumshoos and Lurantis, confirmed Totem Pokemon. Plus, Totem Pokemon have larger models than their normal forms.

And Alolan Raticate.

[Roflolxp54]

I don't see this argument either; what about us who don't? You don't really get anywhere with that logic. Eight crazy beasts being something other than Pokémon wouldn't destroy the series; if anything I would've thought people would be more concerned over the non-Pokémon that look like eldritch horrors actually are catchable.

There's a few options for those who don't want to catch or train a UB:

-Don't battle it. Better yet, don't try to encounter it unless you have to or if it's a random encounter.

-Battle it only to knock it out for EXP. If they're like legendary Pokemon, you usually only have up to 1-2 battles per run and that's it. After that, you wouldn't see them again outside of maybe online play or reruns.

-If it's a forced capture (required for the story), then don't use it more than necessary and box it ASAP.

[Emeraldfox]

Two of them are right after Gumshoos and Lurantis, confirmed Totem Pokemon. Plus, Totem Pokemon have larger models than their normal forms.

Really? I didn't know that. I figured since we know Absorption and Beauty are UB-02 and they're both in the image we'd see the Totem Pokemon.

[Rezzy]

What the heck happened to Litten? I see no natural progression between its middle evo and that final biped monstrosity.

[The DanMan]

What the heck happened to Litten? I see no natural progression between its middle evo and that final biped monstrosity.

"The cat punch that this Pokémon can dish out with its strong forelegs is extremely powerful. It can bend iron bars and knock out large men with a single blow!"

Plus there's a lot of design cues shared between them. The flame sac, the tiger patterns... honestly, the Litten line probably has the most consistency of the starters (Archoot looks more like Rowlet than Dartrix and Brionne leads into Entermaid but doesn't look that natural of a progression from Popplio).

Edited October 19, 2016 by The DanMan

[Konnor97]

What the heck happened to Litten? I see no natural progression between its middle evo and that final biped monstrosity.

"Torracat has a great love for battle and will attack so relentlessly that its opponents lose the will to fight."

Also look at its forelegs.

And what Dan said.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Konnor97

[Emeraldfox]

So what does Alola Golem even look like

[Magical Glace]

So what does Alola Golem even look like

It looks like a wrench tacked onto Golem to me.

So my guess on its typing is Rock/Steel.

[The DanMan]

Here's a poll I found over on the subreddit. Try and predict the typings of the unannounced Pokemon and see how many people are like minded.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScR3mcrq1alHxNnTJdauTvIv3mf9fjsZR2BygLRYtHPd5RCmw/viewform

So what does Alola Golem even look like

'Ere you go.

Edited October 19, 2016 by The DanMan