Arcanite Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Just now, shadowofchaos said: I think people forget that at its heart, this is a gambling game. I think I'm just going to put "Its not a fire emblem game, it's a gacha game" in my sig so people will stop being surprised when we lose our orbs XD These orbs aren't supposed to last. They're supposed to be missed so we get desperate and throw our money. Its a shame some people couldn't keep their integrity LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Arcanite said: I think I'm just going to put "Its not a fire emblem game, it's a gacha game" in my sig so people will stop being surprised when we lose our orbs XD Except it is an FE game? Why the hell do people say it's not when it clearly has FE characters and FE gameplay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Just now, Anacybele said: Except it is an FE game? Why the hell do people say it's not when it clearly has FE characters and FE gameplay? I didn't mean it like that XD It is an FE game, but its not like others. This game was made for the sole purpose of attracting a specific crowd and making them pay money for their favorite characters when they aren't fortunate enough to pull them regularly. Basically I'm saying, its a gacha game wearing FE as a disguise lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Arcanite said: "Its not a fire emblem game, it's a gacha game" It actually is both a Fire Emblem game and a gacha game. These two concepts aren’t irreconcilable, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmokestack Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Just now, Anacybele said: Except it is an FE game? Why the hell do people say it's not when it clearly has FE characters and FE gameplay? There's quite a few games that play similarly to FE without being FE games themselves, like Tear Ring Saga or even XCOM. Fire Emblem's gameplay is by no means unique. Super Smash Bros. has Cloud and Snake. Does that make it a Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy game? No it doesn't. Gacha is gambling because you are spending money on a random chance to recieve a desired result. And yes, before you ask, there is risk for addiction like in any other simulator where you can spend money to roll for extra chances. One great example is this thread on reddit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Arcanite said: I didn't mean it like that XD It is an FE game, but its not like others. This game was made for the sole purpose of attracting a specific crowd and making them pay money for their favorite characters when they aren't fortunate enough to pull them regularly. Basically I'm saying, its a gacha game wearing FE as a disguise lol Oh, okay. xP It isn't exactly like the other FE games, but I do think it's similar enough to not call it a spinoff. 1 minute ago, Vaximillian said: It actually is both a Fire Emblem game and a gacha game. These two concepts aren’t irreconcilable, you know. And this, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLNarshen Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I was surprised they made a new banner but didn't bother to implement any associated quests. The longer we go without daily orbs, the more it's going to seem like the gauntlet orbs weren't much of a reward at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuiltyLove Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said: There's quite a few games that play similarly to FE without being FE games themselves, like Tear Ring Saga or even XCOM. Fire Emblem's gameplay is by no means unique. Super Smash Bros. has Cloud and Snake. Does that make it a Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy game? No it doesn't. Gacha is gambling because you are spending money on a random chance to recieve a desired result. And yes, before you ask, there is risk for addiction like in any other simulator where you can spend money to roll for extra chances. One great example is this thread on reddit. That's disgusting D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcom Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Arcanite said: Thus game is made to tempt you into spending money. Why do you think they ran World of Radiance AND Heroes fest at the same time? They probably made boat loads from that. This is just another starve tactic to make money. I'm not surprised, nor am I annoyed. I'm just content ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Its not a fire emblem game, its a gacha game! Free to players are supposed to cave at some point! That's never happening to me though ;) That's not exactly my point. The issue I see with this is that there is an imbalance between IS being too generous (2 daily orbs) and too strict (no daily orbs). Some people will become too used to the 2 daily orbs that they'll start to complain a lot once they're gone. And then it becomes a cycle of having to see these complaints over again. That's the annoying part (and also just a prediction). If they were to make players cave while giving them some chance at the same time, then they should stick with only 1 daily orb. Personally, that's not gonna bother me cause I've played games with far worse gatcha systems for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 23 minutes ago, Falcom said: Personally, that's not gonna bother me cause I've played games with far worse gatcha systems for a long time. before this, I just hopped from Gacha game to Gacha game just to see if I can get something good at the beginning without spending money. It wasn't exactly working so i just ended up downloading and deleting a TON of games lol Summoner's war is Free to Play death 23 minutes ago, Falcom said: That's not exactly my point. The issue I see with this is that there is an imbalance between IS being too generous (2 daily orbs) and too strict (no daily orbs). Some people will become too used to the 2 daily orbs that they'll start to complain a lot once they're gone. And then it becomes a cycle of having to see these complaints over again. That's the annoying part (and also just a prediction). So you're saying they should be consistent because people will start to complain? I don't really think so. The "inconsistency" is what will force people to spend money in the first place. Also, the 2 orbs daily are only for specific events. There is no "imbalance between being too generous and too strict". Its just matter of "How long do we want to starve them, and what event can we throw in to keep the free to players interested until they give us their money". Then of course "Now that they've spent their money, what can we do to make them spend even more." If anything, what they're doing makes sense AND should be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Falcom said: That's not exactly my point. The issue I see with this is that there is an imbalance between IS being too generous (2 daily orbs) and too strict (no daily orbs). Some people will become too used to the 2 daily orbs that they'll start to complain a lot once they're gone. And then it becomes a cycle of having to see these complaints over again. That's the annoying part (and also just a prediction). If they were to make players cave while giving them some chance at the same time, then they should stick with only 1 daily orb. Personally, that's not gonna bother me cause I've played games with far worse gatcha systems for a long time. Well then don't worry about it. They're inexperienced. Literally this is the login bonus for most gacha games: Spoiler One orb per week. Only special events like golden week you get ONE orb per day. And they don't get a discount on summoning. It's full 5 premium currency per unit summon. Edited May 22, 2017 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) The funny thing i find about the whole talk about gacha vs gambling is the irony when you realize that as of right now afaik, every single form of gaming addiction is diagnosed based on the categorization of gambling addiction So really the line between the two is much closer than one might think at first Edited May 22, 2017 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuiltyLove Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 sigh i can't do anything in the game right now with just two orbs... once i get the arena rewards, i can finally promote Palla :0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogon Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 52 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said: Gacha is gambling because you are spending money on a random chance to recieve a desired result. Do you consider kids buying booster packs for the Pokemon TCG gambling? The legal difference compared to playing at a casino is that Gacha and TCG/CCG booster packs will give you something in return for your money. FEH will always give you a hero for your money. People can get addicted to anything... But yes ALL games hit the same neural systems for rewards as gambling games. This is why they are ALL called games. 13 minutes ago, JSND said: So really the line between the two is much closer than one might think at first Given the fact that the word "Gaming" originally meant the exact same thing as "Gambling", it should not be that surprising. Sadly nowadays the word "Gaming" has transitionned further away from it's original link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said: There's quite a few games that play similarly to FE without being FE games themselves, like Tear Ring Saga or even XCOM. Fire Emblem's gameplay is by no means unique. Super Smash Bros. has Cloud and Snake. Does that make it a Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy game? No it doesn't. Gacha is gambling because you are spending money on a random chance to recieve a desired result. And yes, before you ask, there is risk for addiction like in any other simulator where you can spend money to roll for extra chances. One great example is this thread on reddit. Way to miss my point entirely. Smash has characters from all sorts of games. Heroes has only FE characters and gameplay. Not other characters from other game series. Therefore, it is an FE game. Gacha is not true gambling because of what Clogon just said above. Edited May 22, 2017 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordIvy Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Anacybele said: Way to miss my point entirely. Smash has characters from all sorts of games. Heroes has only FE characters and gameplay. Not other characters from other game series. Therefore, it is an FE game. Gacha is not true gambling because of what Clogon just said above. I think it's actually kind of dangerous to not consider something like this gambling just because of how huge a problem a gambling addiction can be to people. Yes this is a Fire Emblem game. Yes it is gambling. You can spend money for a random chance to get something, and getting something that you like gives you a rush of dopamine. Which is something people can become addicted to. Promoting them to spend more money and boom we have a gambling addiction. Yes you are guaranteed something for your money, but that alone does not stop it from technically being a form of gambling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Clogon said: Do you consider kids buying booster packs for the Pokemon TCG gambling? The legal difference compared to playing at a casino is that Gacha and TCG/CCG booster packs will give you something in return for your money. FEH will always give you a hero for your money. People can get addicted to anything... But yes ALL games hit the same neural systems for rewards as gambling games. This is why they are ALL called games. Given the fact that the word "Gaming" originally meant the exact same thing as "Gambling", it should not be that surprising. Sadly nowadays the word "Gaming" has transitionned further away from it's original link. My definition is that you know... it's subject to gambling laws being a gacha game. Being from Vegas, casinos are required to publish their odds by law. Gacha games are in Japan. Trading card games don't. Edited May 22, 2017 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogon Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 25 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said: Trading card games don't. Do you know of any TCG that doesn't? I am pretty sure they are forced to state their odds too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Clogon said: Do you know of any TCG that doesn't? I am pretty sure they are forced to state their odds too. I will apologize for jumping the gun there. From what I recall, collectible card games are not subject to the same strict publishing requirements as gacha games and casino games do. Cards games have a pull ratio in their booster boxes, but I don't remember if they are absolutely *required to* under US law. Simply because those cards have physical value. When you "gamble" with a pull on a gacha game it has no value but to the account tied to it. You can't resell individual pulls to someone else. While with cards, you can. You always get something out of packs that has physical value via "collecting". Edited May 22, 2017 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogon Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said: I will apologize for jumping the gun there. From what I recall, collectible card games are not subject to the same strict publishing requirements as gacha games and casino games do. Cards games have a pull ratio in their booster boxes, but I don't remember if they are absolutely *required to* under US law It's fine. I have a hard time finding anything relevent to this. But I am no expert so my search is limited to Google instead of actual Law books. Given the fact that every TCG I know of display their rates, I think there is some sort of law. If someone who is an expert can clarify this, you are very welcomed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 The difference between this game and IRL gambling is that I'm a monster at Blackjack and know how to make the best out of my odds. But this video game kicks my rear. Thank god Echoes is out so I can get back to winning. Anyway, I would honestly prefer a 1 orb per day bonus that I could rely on. That and the 2-4 orbs you get weekly from the arena, almost makes up for the loss of a 2 orbs per day ecosystem. I was also a fan of those daily arena quests where you got an orb every day, but ya had to earn it. Putting that sort of daily quest on the Arena is great because players of all skill levels could accomplish that with any combination of units. You don't have to have a wicked good Cav team or so many units with Counter that you can start using them as skill fodder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaximillian Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 2 orbs per day was fine and fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Meh, I of course preferred 2 orbs per day to what we have now, but I don't think it's that big of a deal honestly. I just really want the new event to come soon, so I have something to throw stamina at now that I've finished leveling most of my units. I've just been grinding HM at Defense Map 5, which is fine, but it ends in two days. Hopefully we'll have something to replace it soon. Also I've spent 100 orbs pulling exclusively colorless and still no Genny. When will my daughter come home D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuiltyLove Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said: Also I've spent 100 orbs pulling exclusively colorless and still no Genny. When will my daughter come home D: She's scared of your avatar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedAmpharos Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, GuiltyLove said: She's scared of your avatar Noooooo spear mom will take good care of her I promise D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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