Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Lewyn]

Avatars are a terrible distraction, completely take you out of the story, often leads to incredibly stupid writing, often is overpowered combat wise, and for some reason every man, woman and child wants to jump their bones.  

You know avatars can work if the writing is superb, choices are meaningful, and he/she isn't some perfect Mary Sue who is worshiped like the second coming of Christ and can solo the entire game by themselves.  

Edited July 24, 2018 by Lewyn

[Alexmender]

19 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Personally, I'd prefer for Mark to not exist. But I assume that's not a popular opinion.

I wouldn't terribly mind if Mark ceased to exist but if they're out then Lyn's going with them. After all she's equally irrelevant in Eliwood/Hector mode, but I doubt IS will ever remove her considering she's the most popular female in the franchise.

[saisymbolic]

Just popped in to say the Priest Hat accessory looks absolutely dashing on PA!Inigo and matches his outfit splendidly. 

[Sunwoo]

7 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

I wouldn't terribly mind if Mark ceased to exist but if they're out then Lyn's going with them. After all she's equally irrelevant in Eliwood/Hector mode, but I doubt IS will ever remove her considering she's the most popular female in the franchise.

In a completely selfish way, I wouldn't mind terribly if Lyn mode didn't exist since it doesn't really add much. Mark going doesn't mean Lyn has to go too since the events of Lyn's mode can be played without Mark existing. You'd really only have to change the parts where people are talking to Mark.

[Vaximillian]

39 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Personally, I'd prefer for Mark to not exist. But I assume that's not a popular opinion.

So would I. Mark was completely unnecessary addition to the stories. Cut it. Delete it. Strike it from the records.

[Alexmender]

3 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

In a completely selfish way, I wouldn't mind terribly if Lyn mode didn't exist since it doesn't really add much. Mark going doesn't mean Lyn has to go too since the events of Lyn's mode can be played without Mark existing. You'd really only have to change the parts where people are talking to Mark.

I suppose you could make it that Kent and Sain found her and go from there but personally, I'd hate it if it happened that way. After all I always saw Lyn and Mark as one package, if you don't have one then there's almost no reason to have the other around. 

[Vaximillian]

I wonder if Azama’s Pain staff is a reference to the infamous hexing rod he tends to carry (and use the hell out of!) in Conquest.

[Ice Dragon]

I don't see the need for a player character to add player agency to the game.

A silent player character that makes no choices is a way to allow other characters in the story to provide information about the setting without having to awkwardly say the same things to other characters instead, who would likely already know such things.

Honestly, I hate it when a story's writing includes a "How did you forget what [thing / event] is?" spiel (not directed at the player) for the sole purpose of getting the player up to speed when all logic says that everyone in the conversation with at least half a brain cell (besides the person on this side of the screen) should know what they're talking about.

[Johann]

16 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't see the need for a player character to add player agency to the game.

A silent player character that makes no choices is a way to allow other characters in the story to provide information about the setting without having to awkwardly say the same things to other characters instead, who would likely already know such things.

Honestly, I hate it when a story's writing includes a "How did you forget what [thing / event] is?" spiel (not directed at the player) for the sole purpose of getting the player up to speed when all logic says that everyone in the conversation with at least half a brain cell (besides the person on this side of the screen) should know what they're talking about.

Oh man, few things make me roll my eyes harder when it happens in a story. So lazy. It's high up on the big ol' list of things that bad writers use despite being something nobody would ever say/do in reality.

[Vaximillian]

36 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't see the need for a player character to add player agency to the game.

Honestly, I hate it when a story's writing includes a "How did you forget what [thing / event] is?" spiel…

Then don’t include such a character at all, or don’t market them as an “avatar”. Mark, Kris, Robin, and Corrin all fail as self-inserts because they offer nothing to insert.

Then don’t include such a spiel. There is an endless amount of ways the played can be told all this. Even bloody intercapitular narration still hasn’t stopped being a thing that exists.

[Troykv]

Fire Emblem is already intoxicated for the My Unit's Toxin

Kaga was right; Avatars only ruins stories.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Vaximillian said:

Mark, Kris, Robin, and Corrin all fail as self-inserts because they offer nothing to insert.

Mark allows the characters in the story to talk to the player directly. Like actually face the player and talk to them. Not face an avatar character. The player themselves.

That's the biggest difference between Mark and the other avatar characters and the reason why Mark comes off to me as an actual self-insert and not just some other character in the game that you happen to be controlling.

I haven't played New Mystery or Fates at all, but what little of Awakening I played had me basically treat Robin as if she were any other JRPG protagonist as a character in the story and not as me in the story.

[Vaximillian]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Mark allows the characters in the story to talk to the player directly. Like actually face the player and talk to them. Not face an avatar character. The player themselves.

That's the biggest difference between Mark and the other avatar characters and the reason why Mark comes off to me as an actual self-insert and not just some other character in the game that you happen to be controlling.

I haven't played New Mystery or Fates at all, but what little of Awakening I played had me basically treat Robin as if she were any other JRPG protagonist as a character in the story and not as me in the story.

But they shouldn’t talk to me directly. I’m not a character in the story. They should keep their hands off the fourth wall and interact between themselves.

Robin was like any other protagonist. Corrin was like any other protagonist. Kris was like any other protagonist. They all have fixed roles in the story and nothing in common with the player. And that’s completely fine. What isn’t fine is the erroneous labelling them as avatars. The Japanese designation “My Unit” describes them perfectly: they are units designed by me, the player. “Avatar” implies player self-insertion and agency.

 

And now for something completely different:

The EX ribbon looks perfect on Selena ♥

But this makes me wish for black even more. Elise’s bows when?

[Raven]

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

But they shouldn’t talk to me directly. I’m not a character in the story. They should keep their hands off the fourth wall and interact between themselves.

Robin was like any other protagonist. Corrin was like any other protagonist. Kris was like any other protagonist. They all have fixed roles in the story and nothing in common with the player. And that’s completely fine. What isn’t fine is the erroneous labelling them as avatars. The Japanese designation “My Unit” describes them perfectly: they are units designed by me, the player. “Avatar” implies player self-insertion and agency.

 

And now for something completely different:

The EX ribbon looks perfect on Selena ♥

But this makes me wish for black even more. Elise’s bows when?

The way I see it, you are "Mark" or whatever you renamed yourself to from the default. It's technically not breaking the fourth wall since you're supposed to be standing there in-game, watching the conversations take place. Except when you are able to view scenes that take place outside of the camp/away from the main lord you're joined to by the hip.

I agree that Robin, Corrin and Kris are simply separate entities from you, and are nothing more than a main character whose appearance is influenced by your preferences. Haven't played FE12 but I assume s/he's the same as Robin and Corrin.

---

Also, when do we get the Solid Snake bandana?

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

I’m not a character in the story.

But you literally are. They are literally talking to you and intending to talk to you as the player.

Sure, you can proxy it one step out like @Raven's interpretation, but characters talking to Mark and characters talking to a player that shares Mark's line of sight and is pretty much indistinguishable from Mark are functionally equivalent for all practical purposes.

 

4 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

“Avatar” implies player self-insertion and agency.

An "avatar" is simply a representation of someone in a medium other than real life, whether that's your profile picture on a forum or a character in a video game. Self-insertion and agency are not implied. The amount of self-insertion and agency in my forum avatar is exactly zero.

I think your definition of "avatar" is too narrow.

[Vaximillian]

@Ice Dragon

My suspension of disbelief doesn’t stretch that far. I’m not a character in the story, and neither is Mark my representative. It’s not my story. It’s Lyn’s, and her legion’s, and Eliwood’s, and his posse’s, and Hector’s, and the other’s. Mark is a poor representative of me if he reqiires me to invade their story from the comfort of my chair.

An avatar is indeed your representation. You chose an image of Ninian to represent you on SF because you associate some part of you with Ninian. She might be your first favourite, best waifu, buffest dancer, any reason imaginable. But you chose an image of her to represent her, and there is a piece of your personality in this image.

(This is why I don’t like the term avatar with regards to forum userpics)

My definition of avatar might be narrow, but at least it works for me. Kris, Robin, and Corrin fail to represent me because they have nothing to do with my personality or way of thinking, and Mark is a complete non-entity that destroys the integrity of the story by bringing an outsider like me.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Vaximillian

[Ice Dragon]

3 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

It’s not my story.

That's not for you to decide.

 

4 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

An avatar is indeed your representation. You chose an image of Ninian to represent you on SF because you associate some part of you with Ninian. She might be your first favourite, best waifu, buffest dancer, any reason imaginable. But you chose an image of her to represent her, and there is a piece of your personality in this image.

An image that represents me does not require it to be a self-insert or to have any agency. Whether I project some of my personality, values, etc. through the image is not reliant on the image being a self-insert or having agency.

It is meant to represent me, not to be me or be a substitute or proxy for me.

 

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

(This is why I don’t like the term avatar with regards to forum userpics)

Fish are animals whether or not I reject that fish are animals.

[Vaximillian]

6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It is meant to represent me, not to be me or be a substitute or proxy for me.

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree then.

[silverserpent]

Didn't expect that much feedback...as I said, it was just an idea I was entertaining when thinking about remakes and the current trend FE is going. It just wouldn't surprise me if IS did try to do something like that, or even try to make the "remake" a combined sequel instead. Sooo...I'll just put this landmine back under the rock. Continue what you were doing prior.

[mcsilas]

I like the casualness of Forging Bonds. TT can be a bit draining with the multiple maps, even though it's better use of stamina.

I can somewhat do it at my own pace without worrying about ranks.

[mampfoid]

Another 1,5 multiplier, that's now one time 2x and two times x1,5, right?

[Othin]

9 minutes ago, mampfoid said:

Another 1,5 multiplier, that's now one time 2x and two times x1,5, right?

Sounds right.

I wish the instructions were clearer upfront about what range of multipliers to expect.

[mampfoid]

5 minutes ago, Othin said:

Sounds right.

I wish the instructions were clearer upfront about what range of multipliers to expect.

Yeah, would be good to know if it's worth to hold back stamina a little. Today is the last day of TTs, so I'll check for better multipliers tomorrow. 

Edited July 24, 2018 by mampfoid

[Anacybele]

So...why can Heavy Blade be used by cavalry, fliers, etc. but Flashing Blade can't? They're the same skill, except one goes by Atk and the other Spd. So wtf? Did IS just decide Heavy Blade being able to be used by non-infantry was OP or something? :/ I don't see how it is.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

So...why can Heavy Blade be used by cavalry, fliers, etc. but Flashing Blade can't? They're the same skill, except one goes by Atk and the other Spd. So wtf? Did IS just decide Heavy Blade being able to be used by non-infantry was OP or something? :/ I don't see how it is.

Flashing Blade was made during the era of "cavalry and fliers are too powerful", whereas Heavy Blade was made during the era of "we still don't know how to balance this game".