Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[coldhand25]

Hey, so I've just gotten my 3rd Kana, so I started thinking. Should I merge them, or does she have some good skills to fodder? I haven't built a dragon emblem team yet, but it might be my next project since I summoned Legendary Robin, and I have Ninian as a dragon dancer as well. I know Goad Dragons is exclusive to her, but I'm not sure if it's that useful to use on other units, same goes for Fierce Stance. Basically, should I use Myrrh as a green dragon, or start merging my Kana, and use her?

[Ice Dragon]

27 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

An armor can't leave the front lines once they get there, you mean.

An armor doesn't need to, which is why it is irrelevant if they can or can't.

Unlike other units that either need to push through the opponent in one go or hit and retreat, armors can simply stand there due to their massive stat pools and access to superior skills.

 

26 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

We're probably assessing units on different standards, is the problem. In terms of sheer arena point generation,

Why the hell are you bringing Arena scoring into this? And then insinuating that I'm the one that brought it up? I have not yet mentioned it once in our discussion.

 

31 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

The reason you don't need mobility in armor emblem is because the enemies don't have it either, so you don't give a damn. Ordinarily a mobility disadvantage means the enemy team gets to pick their fights, meaning it'll be the enemy Reinhardt smacking your Alfonse to death with no counter play, but a fully merged armor team will basically never run into an Reinhardt. It's dragons and armors having a melee range slugfest (if we ignore the odd W!Tharja and the like), and I'll agree you don't need mobility for that.

You saying this assures me that you have little experience using an armor team.

An armor team built for performance instead of score does not avoid high-mobility units, especially now when there are Legendary Heroes that can pull virtually any unit up to that level.

A unit only needs 1 fewer movement range than the opponent in order to sufficiently choose its own fights by baiting, and running a single Armor March provides enough movement range to meet that against cavalry. The beauty of an armor team is that a well-constructed one still has all of the tools it needs to face any team composition. Swap on all members and Armor March on one member is all of the mobility you need.

 

40 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Gravity shines like crazy up there because there's no risk of a dancer clearing the gravity off Bow Lyn and Bow Lyn instantly sniping your healer,

Performing Arts Azura is actually not uncommon up there from my experience.

 

42 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Reinhardt would demolish the teams that make up the highest scoring teams in arena, because he already destroys the less merged variants in the lower tiers, but he'll never score high enough to actually fight those losers. Slightly less than 4 magical bulk (you get +4 all stats, including hp, so 4 extra bulk, but also lose 1.2 or so things like Moonbows or Bonfires or whatever being a bit stronger) is not going to change why Reinhardt destroys low mobility teams.

You know, I have experience with bringing low-scoring teams to the top of the Arena. I currently use preset teams for my first 6 matches of Arena Assault instead of counter-picking each one (just the last one because I don't have enough strongly synergistic team compositions for all 7 matches). Each team is pretty much designed to be a fully functional Arena team so that I can pretty much grab any team for any match and run with it without worrying about the enemy composition (though I'll still pick and choose a little bit based on the map itself).

I can say from experience that even Reinhardt falls off somewhat at that level. He can still delete every red unit in the game, make no mistake, but he's noticeably less effective against other colors than in his glory days in the older meta.

Considering pretty much every blue mage does exactly what he does in simply deleting red units, I've found little reason to actually keep him around other than the fact that he has Blazing Thunder, which is one of the better skills to use my Special Blade for (that's actually pretty much the only Special skill I use my Special Blade for, now that I think about it, as well as one of the two reasons I haven't replaced it with Moonbow).

 

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

if your team is mobile enough to get a single free hit off, why couldn't it get 2 hits off, or 3, and just wipe the enemy team from attrition?

Because you need to initiate combat four times minimum to kill four units, and that is literally the maximum number of times you can initiate combat in one turn without Galeforce.

It is unreasonable to expect a team to reliably have both the mobility and a coincidence of perfect match-ups to clean-sweep the enemy on a single turn. It is far more reasonable to expect a team to initiate one or two rounds of combat in one turn and either pull out completely or set up for one or two rounds of combat during enemy phase.

 

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

And regarding the once per thing on the anti-Galeforce buff... if a Galeforce unit got 2 unit-turns, aren't you pretty fucked already? A straight up 'no second turns' debuff neuters dancers, sure, but you're trading a definite inclusion of a dagger unit against the possible inclusion of a dancer, so honestly it's not even busted, merely... consistent.

It's not great, but it does put a hard cap on how strong the enemy team can be, since you remove dance from the equation. (Assuming the enemy doesn't have some wonky dancer + staff user team that also carries restore.)

I think you read the description wrong. "Unit" refers to the attacking unit.

The skill grants the attacking dagger unit a free Galeforce if the debuff hits enough other units. The effect in the following bullet point grants the attacking unit a free Firesweep if the target is not adjacent to any of its allies.

 

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

They don't have pairs like Atk + Spd where, if you have enough bulk to survive, you're getting doubled and such. They can't complement via -Atk/-Spd and -Def/-Res debuffs because if you can get 2 free hits to stack both sides of buffs, you can damn well get 2 free hits in with an actual damage unit and just wipe the enemy team. A physical unit and a magical unit forces a very hard check on the enemy unit's bulk. A dagger + some other unit forces basically... nothing, it feels like. Either the dagger's busted alone or else it's not too great in a pair up.

Smoke Dagger exists, is currently the best debuffing dagger in the game, and pairs well with pretty much any other unit. The current problem is that it's not reliably safe enough to apply those debuffs, and they don't last long enough to easily take advantage of them without having to reapply them every turn.

An increased duration on debuffs would also synergize well with Ploy skills as guaranteeing a Res debuff remains in play at the beginning of your turn helps secure hits with Ploy skills. Things that would also be nice would be to have the increased duration also extend the duration of all of the affects units' debuffs to match (extending the duration of things like Panic, Gravity, or Candlelight would be great) as well as an effect to spread all debuffs on the targeted unit to all other enemies in range.

 

A debuff to seal the opponents' Special skills for a turn (or two) would also be fun to use. Hell, that would also be great as a Ploy skill.

[Othin]

12 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

I mean, give daggers a brave option (maybe cut 1 MT vs. brave bows for the debuffing aspect) and they're instantly on bow level.

No need for a Mt decrease. Compare Barb Shuriken vs Slaying Bow and Silver Dagger vs Silver Bow (with refinements). Equivalent daggers have the same Mt as bows now, they just miss out on flier effectiveness.

[Vaximillian]

Unfortunate that I only got DC fodder immediately after the VF fodder banner had gone away. When will Tharja, Grima, and Hector come back next time?

Edited July 7, 2018 by Vaximillian

[Junkhead]

Took me literally hours to get this right

 

[mcsilas]

@Vaximillian Christmas for Tharja. At least L!Hector would be back after rotating L!Lyn and Gunnthra.

Grima might have a chance next month since he's the last Fallen Hero to be put in the Legendary banner

 

[Hawk King]

@DehNutCase - based on your long post, you really don't seem to understand Armor teams at all. Armor teams are very easy to use effectively. Your view on movement is extremely flawed. Once to begin to initiate the enemy all of the fighting will be done within 1 to 2 turns regardless of how much movement your units have. Horses are just able to initiate a little bit sooner, but when turncounts don't matter at all it becomes a moot point. And your opinion of Reinhardt is so last year. Yes, he can kill reds like he is supposed to do, but blue units have Berkut's Lance and Deflect magic seal, and greens have WTA on their side.

@Ice Dragon - I think you are being a little bit hard on daggers, especially Jaffar. Just a little bit too hard. Yes they are the worst weapon type right now, but that is when comparing their 1v1 match-ups. If they are able to safely apply their debuffs to the enemy they become pretty good. Not every single unit runs distant counter, even in the 740-754 score range. Jaffar's niche is that he has the dagger version of Pain+ and can seriously mess up teams that are grouped together if he gets dancer support. He has enough bulk to survive a round of combat from most enemies if they do all have DC, and that is all he needs to do. If he can lower the entire enemy team's HP by 20+ and then get Repositioned/danced to safety he makes it that much easier for other units to clean up.

Unfortunately, Staves are just better, and unfortunately for Jaffar, Pain+ exists. Another problem for them is that they do not perform well against armors where, again, Staves do much better.

As it stands, Daggers need Windsweep and/or Reposition/Dancer/Healer support in order to perform their debuffing safely and effectively. A Vantage seal would help them out quite a bit, but  like you said, they really need and exclusive B skill with the same effect as Dazzling staff. Make them essentially physical Staves with built in Wrathful Staff, and daggers would be able to rise from their place at the bottom.

 

Being able to apply the buffs/debuffs before their combat is initiated would also make them much more viable, but I'm not sure how easily that could be implemented.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Hawk King

[Vaximillian]

8 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Grima might have a chance next month since he's the last Fallen Hero to be put in the Legendary banner

Next month, as in late July, or late August? Either way, this will need some hardcore orb saving. Good to have a goal ahead.

[XRay]

9 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Firesweep Bow no longer has the punch it needs to break through bulky units, especially since it can't take advantage of weapon triangle advantage to pad its damage output. Dancing a unit to secure a single kill is strictly inferior to dancing a unit to grab two kills.

Needing Dance/Sing support to secure a kill is very minor trade for the extra mobility as you have the option to run and reengage if your current position cannot be held.

59 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

An armor doesn't need to, which is why it is irrelevant if they can or can't.

Unlike other units that either need to push through the opponent in one go or hit and retreat, armors can simply stand there due to their massive stat pools and access to superior skills.

I am not sure about that. Assuming we are talking about +10s with the largest bulk increase, enemy armors with [Armor Effective Weapon, Luna, Death Blow, Bold Fighter] and no buffs can still easily destroy an ally armor with three full stacks of Ward Armor unless you also have color advantage. Zelgius is even worse because he has access to Black Luna and he just murders FH!Hardin unless FH!Hardin runs [Slaying Spear, Moonbow, Steady Breath] for a one shot counter kill.

In this context, I think TOD!Jakob needs to have better mobility to kite them.

7 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

-blade daggers would probably fix the class instantly in terms of viability, but it just creates another problem.

Death is the best debuff, and a damn lot of units make their living applying it.

Blade mages' combat performance is not that spectacular anymore though, so I do not think giving daggers a Blade Weapon would create a huge problem. With the recent stat buffs and new skills to melee units, a Blade mage with 4/4/0/0 or even 6/6/0/0 buffs will perform a little worse than a melee unit with 4/4/0/0 buffs.

I think being colorless improves Player Phase combat performance, but Blade dagger targets Def instead of Res, so I assume those two factors balance out and their performance should not be too different from Blade mages.

— — — GREEN — — —

Nino +Spd, -Res
Gronnblade
Life and Death, Desperation
Speed +3
4/4/0/0
Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury
Player Phase 173:58:33

SF!Nino +Atk -Res
Gronnblade
Swift Sparrow, Desperation
Speed +3
6/6/0/0
Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury
Player Phase 207:35:22

Raven +Spd, -Res
Basilikos, Luna
Fury, Desperation
Speed +3
4/4/0/0
Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury
Player Phase 208:31:25

— — — RED — — —

BB!Tharja +Spd, -Def
Rauðrblade
Swift Sparrow, Desperation
Speed +3
4/4/0/0
Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury
Player Phase 185:22:57

SA!Tana +Spd, -Res
Rauðrblade
Atk/Spd Push, Renewal
Speed +3
6/6/0/0
Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury
Player Phase 214:33:17

Lucina +Spd, -Res
Wo Dao [Spd], Moonbow
Life and Death, Desperation
Speed +3
4/4/0/0
Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury
Player Phase 215:15:34

Ayra +Spd, -Res
Ayra's Blade, Regnal Astra
Swift Sparrow, Desperation
Speed +3
4/4/0/0
Enemies +5, +Spd, Moonbow, Fury
Player Phase 227:13:24

You can go with 4/4/4/4 or 6/6/6/6 buffs and that might even the score, but I think 4/4/0/0 or 6/6/0/0 is easier and more realistic to achieve.

27 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

When will Tharja, Grima, and Hector come back next time?

You are pulling for seasonals now?

9 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Armor teams are very easy to use effectively.

I wish it was easy for me. As a Player Phase oriented player, using a Ward Armor team is kind of difficult. I think I will eventually get better with practice, but the learning curve is kind of steep. My win rate with my armor team is pretty abysmal with so many spam surrenders, although if you take out the immediate surrenders, my win rate is probably around 50% to 70%, but that is only because the enemy match up was very favorable for me.

[mcsilas]

19 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Next month, as in late July, or late August? Either way, this will need some hardcore orb saving. Good to have a goal ahead.

Oh right, this is July now

This month then. Likely along with Christmas Lissa (the only winter armour left)

Most likely. Unless they swap one of them with either Vector or LA Lilina.

 

[Vaximillian]

20 minutes ago, XRay said:

You are pulling for seasonals now?

For their skills.

14 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

This month then. Likely along with Christmas Lissa (the only winter armour left)

Lissa is BF which would be nice too. Not bad either, but just not what Gwen wants right now.

[Garlyle]

Now that I have more 5* units and did some inheritance, I feel more confident with Chain challenges.

Paralogues are done, but book 1 11-13 and Book 2 5-10 is still on my todo list.

Youtube videos didnt help me much though. Once this is done, I go for Squad Assault.

[Rezzy]

I wonder if they'll ever remove the BST from the Arena score calculation.  Theoretically, all movement types should be balanced, but right now, Arena is nothing but Armor Emblem and Dragon teams, and cutting the BST from the equation would bring a bit more variety.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I wonder if they'll ever remove the BST from the Arena score calculation.  Theoretically, all movement types should be balanced, but right now, Arena is nothing but Armor Emblem and Dragon teams, and cutting the BST from the equation would bring a bit more variety.

Yeah, I agree with this. I'd like to see more variety too.

[Vaximillian]

How are they going to extort payers then?

[Rezzy]

4 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

How are they going to extort payers then?

They'd still have 5* exclusive +10 merges.  Even being the whale I am, none of my +10s are 5* exclusive.

[Garlyle]

Agree it would be nice to see more than just armors left and right in Arena. There is so much potential.

If bst and skill scoring will be abandoned, there will be more building around the seasonal blessing and arena heroes with bonuses.

And also building to counter them. - if people care to put them on their defensive teams.

[Humanoid]

Not sure I want a world where Firesweep Bowlyn is everpresent at every arena scoring tier though.

[Rezzy]

1 minute ago, Garlyle said:

Agree it would be nice to see more than just armors left and right in Arena. There is so much potential.

If bst and skill scoring will be abandoned, there will be more building around the seasonal blessing and arena heroes with bonuses.

And also building to counter them. - if people care to put them on their defensive teams.

I don't really mind the SP scoring too much, since you can flesh out most units pretty well, with the only barrier being personal skills, and actually dislike the Blessings, since it centralizes even more than the BST does around the Legendary units.

[Xenomata]

49 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

How are they going to extort payers then?

SKINTIGHT SPEEDOS FOR EVERYONE!

Yes, even Oliver.

[Michelaar]

I suppose we will be getting the silhouettes very soon, won't we?

[Johann]

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

I wonder if they'll ever remove the BST from the Arena score calculation.  Theoretically, all movement types should be balanced, but right now, Arena is nothing but Armor Emblem and Dragon teams, and cutting the BST from the equation would bring a bit more variety.

Alternatively, it'd be interesting if they made it so players without defense wins would occasionally have their team boosted in BST/score to some degree for the matchmaking process. Players who are dealing with Reinhardts and Lyns at present would be unaffected, while higher/highest scoring players would have to prepare for not only armors and dragons, but potentially any other unit, who would suddenly have higher stats than normal. This gives the super competitive players a new challenge, and players struggling to get a defense win have a better chance.

[Silverly]

2 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

I suppose we will be getting the silhouettes very soon, won't we?

As in today? Most likely, though probably sometime in the evening. About 10 hours from now or so.

I’m mixed on the idea of removing BST out of the equation. On one hand, variety is good and I appreciate things not feeling samey. On the other hand, there’s a lot that I don’t miss in the lower tiers that I don’t want see pop up again. Nino/bladetome mages, dancers, dazzling pain healers, horse emblem, etc can go to hell. Armor emblem and dragons can be annoying sometimes, but they rarely make me feel overwhelmed or salty as I don’t struggle with them as much.

[Michelaar]

I wouldn't mind them removing BST scoring. I always thought that was pretty stupid and not much reason for it to even exist.

[Rezzy]

1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

SKINTIGHT SPEEDOS FOR EVERYONE!

Yes, even Oliver.

With that loose robe, we don't really know how his bulge would compare to Alfonse and Hector, do we?  He certainly has a lot of confidence.

1 hour ago, Michelaar said:

I suppose we will be getting the silhouettes very soon, won't we?

Maybe?  Do they do them on the weekend?  The days have been running together so much, that I don't really remember.

58 minutes ago, Johann said:

Alternatively, it'd be interesting if they made it so players without defense wins would occasionally have their team boosted in BST/score to some degree for the matchmaking process. Players who are dealing with Reinhardts and Lyns at present would be unaffected, while higher/highest scoring players would have to prepare for not only armors and dragons, but potentially any other unit, who would suddenly have higher stats than normal. This gives the super competitive players a new challenge, and players struggling to get a defense win have a better chance.

I'm not sure if boosting their BST would help, since I often notice I get more Defense Wins when I send out teams with lower Arena Score.