Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Through the first three chapters of Book III, they both only had very basic dialogue where they said their names and then told Alf and friends they’re going to kill them and/or destroy the world. Lif said a total of just three sentences (and one of them was just a “You.”) while Thrasir said five (and one of her’s was just a “Hold.”).

So in other words, they were just completely flat antagonists at the time of CYL3 voting even with them appearing in-game.

So yeah, the Engage characters (or at least the protagonist) are already more developed than that.

[Diovani Bressan]

About the Three Hopes datamine:

Spoiler

Looks like there are some quests on September 22nd that give 5 Free Summoning Tickets. However, these Tickets are different from the Forging Bonds tickets, so they are for a different banner.

The thing is... There is no banner releasing on September 22nd that we know at least (according to the Calendar).

 

[Mercakete]

Oh man. Okay, so I know whether or not Heroes is a "real" FE game has been debated before but I just learned that IS counts it as a mainline game, not a gaiden game like what they count, for example, Warriors as. o.o The more you know...

[GrandeRampel]

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Oh man. Okay, so I know whether or not Heroes is a "real" FE game has been debated before but I just learned that IS counts it as a mainline game, not a gaiden game like what they count, for example, Warriors as. o.o The more you know...

If you want my 2 cents, the reason the other games like Warriors and TMS are considered spin-offs is because they belong to completely different genres of videogames (Musou and turn based RPG).

Meanwhile Fire Emblem Heroes is a Strategy RPG on a grid like all the other FE games. It makes sense to count it as a mainline title.

Same story for Mario Kart Tour. It's a mainline game because it is a multiplayer focused kart racer like the others. While something like the AR Mario Kart is a different type of game.

Edited September 16, 2022 by GrandeRampel

[Interdimensional Observer]

17 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Meanwhile Fire Emblem Heroes is a Strategy RPG on a grid like all the other FE games. It makes sense to count it as a mainline title.

There is also the simple fact that Japan takes mobile gaming more seriously than the West. The Japanese spend more per capita on it, they like it more than room-cramping consoles and probably PC gaming. It's the hybrid Switch and mobile that dominate Japanese markets. Playstation and PC have niches for high-end games the Switch can't handle, and Xbox... might be growing there somewhat, yet still it's a joke. 

Nintendo is a Japanese company, why not acknowledge the tastes of the average Japanese gamer?

Edited September 16, 2022 by Interdimensional Observer

[Othin]

I bet a future year's new hero type will offer transferable duo-like skills.

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Oh man. Okay, so I know whether or not Heroes is a "real" FE game has been debated before but I just learned that IS counts it as a mainline game, not a gaiden game like what they count, for example, Warriors as. o.o The more you know...

Yet we're not getting a Zennith rep in Engage. At least not from the wheel.

[Mercakete]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yet we're not getting a Zennith rep in Engage. At least not from the wheel.

Yeah, not from the wheel. I said this in the Engage forums, but the more I think about it and look into things, the more convinced I am that we'll be getting a crossover event between Engage and Heroes, where we get an Engage banner and assorted freebies in Heroes, and we get an Alfonse Emblem or Alfonse as a bonus character (a la Anna in both 3H and Fates) in Engage as DLC (whether paid or free.)

Besides that, Enggage is also using Heroes designs for at least Ike (Brave Ike) and Lucina (Masked Marth with a bow) in the wheel itself.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Yeah, not from the wheel. I said this in the Engage forums, but the more I think about it and look into things, the more convinced I am that we'll be getting a crossover event between Engage and Heroes, where we get an Engage banner and assorted freebies in Heroes, and we get an Alfonse Emblem or Alfonse as a bonus character (a la Anna in both 3H and Fates) in Engage as DLC (whether paid or free.)

Besides that, Enggage is also using Heroes designs for at least Ike (Brave Ike) and Lucina (Masked Marth with a bow) in the wheel itself.

Oh surely, Engage banners in Heroes at the very least. And yeah, I expect more than just what's on the wheel in terms of characters, some Heroes OC definitely being possible. But I'd say the existence of Engage regulates Heroes more to spin off than anything else. Since we have a very clear 1 game 1 rep set up that Heroes is excluded from. Well, Mystery of the Emblem is absent too, but that's because Marth's the protagonist of both games (not that they couldn't have given us Tiki or Shiida, or most appropriately kris, but I guess they didn't feel anyone other than Marth significant enough). If Heores was considered "just another Fire Emblem game" then why didn't they stick Alphonse or Shareena up on the wheel?

[Mercakete]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh surely, Engage banners in Heroes at the very least. And yeah, I expect more than just what's on the wheel in terms of characters, some Heroes OC definitely being possible. But I'd say the existence of Engage regulates Heroes more to spin off than anything else. Since we have a very clear 1 game 1 rep set up that Heroes is excluded from. Well, Mystery of the Emblem is absent too, but that's because Marth's the protagonist of both games (not that they couldn't have given us Tiki or Shiida, or most appropriately kris, but I guess they didn't feel anyone other than Marth significant enough). If Heores was considered "just another Fire Emblem game" then why didn't they stick Alphonse or Shareena up on the wheel?

It could be because they were saving them for the crossover event, but I'm not speculating when I say that FEH is considered by IS themselves to be a main series title. Apparently, they've stated it directly before, and when Byleth was announced for Smash, the number 17 was given as a clue, saying that (s)he was from the 17th main series installment (which only works if FEH is the 16th installment.)

[Jotari]

39 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

It could be because they were saving them for the crossover event, but I'm not speculating when I say that FEH is considered by IS themselves to be a main series title. Apparently, they've stated it directly before, and when Byleth was announced for Smash, the number 17 was given as a clue, saying that (s)he was from the 17th main series installment (which only works if FEH is the 16th installment.)

They can say what they want but they still didn't feel the need to put Alphonse on the wheel when every other game is on it (sans Marth's second venture and Archanea Saga, which they've referred to as a full game in the past before too). Heroes is on the official website while Warriors and TMS isn't, for what it's worth, but they're clearly treating Heroes as different to the other titles in this entry.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/history/index.html

Edited September 17, 2022 by Jotari

[Seafarer]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

They can say what they want but they still didn't feel the need to put Alphonse on the wheel when every other game is on it (sans Marth's second venture and Archanea Saga, which they've referred to as a full game in the past before too). Heroes is on the official website while Warriors and TMS isn't, for what it's worth, but they're clearly treating Heroes as different to the other titles in this entry.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/history/index.html

I don't think inferences based on what's featured in later games really qualify as good evidence. You could make the case that, since none of the remakes are referenced on the wheel (including FE3, the original remake), they don't count as mainline games either. It's like when a bunch of people in the Pokémon fandom decided that Phione having a different encounter message in Pokémon Ranger 3 meant that it conclusively wasn't a legendary, to the point that to this day, even though evidence for it being mythical piles up, including it being allowed in official tournaments that only allow legendary and mythical Pokémon, it's still listed on Bulbapedia as "legendary status disputed".

The thing that convinced me 100% that Heroes is meant as a main FE title is its appearance in the series splash page in Legacy of Archanea. To be fair, I was already leaning towards it being main series, but this also convinced my friend who felt it was a spinoff due to being too different from the rest of the series.

Ultimately, though, it becomes a question of what makes a game a main series FE game. FE doesn't focus on a single setting or set of characters, so those don't really work as qualifiers. That leaves us with genre and recurring narrative elements. I think that "pseudo-medieval war SRPG with dragon gods" is a fair description of both FEH and the wider series, but others might disagree based on the shitty gacha system underlying it, and it's certainly true that FEH emphasises map strategy and tactics over long-term strategy. But that disagreement ultimately leaves only official statements on the matter, so we're back to my case above that fan interpretation of intent in a new game doesn't count as an official statement, which you disagree with, and now I'm rambling so I'll stop here.

Also, *Alfonse.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Seafarer said:

I don't think inferences based on what's featured in later games really qualify as good evidence. You could make the case that, since none of the remakes are referenced on the wheel (including FE3, the original remake), they don't count as mainline games either. It's like when a bunch of people in the Pokémon fandom decided that Phione having a different encounter message in Pokémon Ranger 3 meant that it conclusively wasn't a legendary, to the point that to this day, even though evidence for it being mythical piles up, including it being allowed in official tournaments that only allow legendary and mythical Pokémon, it's still listed on Bulbapedia as "legendary status disputed".

The thing that convinced me 100% that Heroes is meant as a main FE title is its appearance in the series splash page in Legacy of Archanea. To be fair, I was already leaning towards it being main series, but this also convinced my friend who felt it was a spinoff due to being too different from the rest of the series.

Ultimately, though, it becomes a question of what makes a game a main series FE game. FE doesn't focus on a single setting or set of characters, so those don't really work as qualifiers. That leaves us with genre and recurring narrative elements. I think that "pseudo-medieval war SRPG with dragon gods" is a fair description of both FEH and the wider series, but others might disagree based on the shitty gacha system underlying it, and it's certainly true that FEH emphasises map strategy and tactics over long-term strategy. But that disagreement ultimately leaves only official statements on the matter, so we're back to my case above that fan interpretation of intent in a new game doesn't count as an official statement, which you disagree with, and now I'm rambling so I'll stop here.

Also, *Alfonse.

Personally I don't particularly care if Heroes is considered mainline or not. I don't see it as a particularly meaningful distinction as being mainline or not mainline is something without tangible value. What matters is how IS treats the title. And in the case of this game they are clearly not treating it like Binding Blade or Genealogy of the Holy War. Will they still feature it in some way in Engage? Sure, probably (while the inverse is practically a guarantee), but its not beong treated the same as the other games.

[Seafarer]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Personally I don't particularly care if Heroes is considered mainline or not. I don't see it as a particularly meaningful distinction as being mainline or not mainline is something without tangible value. What matters is how IS treats the title. And in the case of this game they are clearly not treating it like Binding Blade or Genealogy of the Holy War. Will they still feature it in some way in Engage? Sure, probably (while the inverse is practically a guarantee), but its not beong treated the same as the other games.

If this is the entire case you now want to defend, I agree, but you said "I'd say the existence of Engage regulates [sic] Heroes more to spin off than anything else", which is what I'm pushing back against.

Awakening treated Gaiden differently to the other past games by not having a villain appear. Does Awakening relegate Gaiden to a spinoff more than anything else?

Fates and Echoes both have past characters from only a couple of past games. Surely you don't think that makes Jugdral and Sacred Stones spinoffs more than anything else?

I think it's much more likely that they don't want the long-term fans that they're probably targeting with this game (because anniversary game) to be turned off by the inclusion of Heroes characters (since Heroes is, broadly speaking, less liked among that group), or that they decided they wanted 12 characters and chose the most popular main characters from the series to make up that number, with the constraint that they should all be from different games.

Honestly, this is a pointless argument, but I guess I'm in a petty mood this evening.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Seafarer said:

If this is the entire case you now want to defend, I agree, but you said "I'd say the existence of Engage regulates [sic] Heroes more to spin off than anything else", which is what I'm pushing back against.

Well that's what I meant. It was just poorly phrased. To put the original line a different way, the existence of Engage regulates Heroes as a spin off more than it reinforces it as a main series title.

2 minutes ago, Seafarer said:

Awakening treated Gaiden differently to the other past games by not having a villain appear. Does Awakening relegate Gaiden to a spinoff more than anything else?

That's Gaiden's own fault for not having any decent artwork to rip for its villains.

2 minutes ago, Seafarer said:

Fates and Echoes both have past characters from only a couple of past games. Surely you don't think that makes Jugdral and Sacred Stones spinoffs more than anything else?

I think it's much more likely that they don't want the long-term fans that they're probably targeting with this game (because anniversary game) to be turned off by the inclusion of Heroes characters (since Heroes is, broadly speaking, less liked among that group), or that they decided they wanted 12 characters and chose the most popular main characters from the series to make up that number, with the constraint that they should all be from different games.

Honestly, this is a pointless argument, but I guess I'm in a petty mood this evening.

As for everything else, aside from Awakening, no other game (well except Heroes itself too) tried to have anything resembling a "best of Fire Emblem" celebration. They had cameos, but Echoes DLC didn't really set out to have the likes of Leif and Ephraim as amibo units, both because amiibo units probably just don't exist for those characters and because the intention was never to represent every title in the series, where as Engage does.

[Xenomata]

The Resplendent after Fae will be Jeorge: Perfect Shot.

Spoiler

Sigh... once again amazing-looking art is wasted on an unremarkable unit.

[Tybrosion]

*insert that “Wow, this is worthless” Gravity Falls meme here*

They even went with Embla instead of Nidavellir for the theme like, come on.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I guess I'll be in the minority in thinking that Jeorge is an awesome pick. I've always liked him a lot. It's also kinda funny because just the other day I was thinking "it'd be great if Jeorge was the next Archanea character to get a Resplendent, but that won't happen," and now it actually happened.

[Diovani Bressan]

Jeorge looks nice, for sure!

He will have 34/34 offensives, which is decent... but his Parthia is kinda meh (I wished Weapon evolution still existed, and he could get Wind Parthia. That would be amazing).

[Ice Dragon]

The Resplendent boost brings Jeorge's stats up to 44/39/39/31/29 with max Dragonflowers.

39/39 neutral offenses isn't exactly bad, but it also isn't particularly impressive. For comparison, the premier free-to-play bow infantry, Young Innes, has 40/41 offenses and a weapon that grants +6/+6 and +7 damage on Special activation. Compared to the two strongest fast infantry bows in the game, Ulir has 45/44 offenses, +6/+6 on her weapon, and nearly every offensive non-stat skill effect in the game between her weapon and exclusive skill. Legendary Alm has 41/41 offenses, +10/+13 on his weapon, deals additional damage based on the opponent's Def, and has one of the strongest Special skills in the game.

Parthia isn't actually too awful, as it lowers the damage from the first hit from a tome unit by 30% and grants him +6 Atk. You can probably make it work with Atk/Res Finish and try to one-hit kill tome units on the counterattack. The only problem is that half of the new tome units coming out have some way to deal with that by either having the Desperation effect or having damage reduction of their own on the opponent's first attack.

Otherwise, he can still be decent with Whitecap Bow. Summer Elincia has 38/42 offenses, which isn't too far off from Jeorge's.

 

Still quite underwhelming, though.

[Tybrosion]

Perhaps I should specify and say that I don’t dislike Resplendent Jeorge, unlike Resplendent Lucina (for butchering her design) and Resplendent Est (for just existing at all).

This Resplendent just does literally nothing for me at all, much like the character himself I guess.

[Etrurian emperor]

The Halloween banner is coming up next month. I hope they ditch the Dragon theme and go for more suitable characters. Older characters taking kids trick or treating, sweet loving characters gathering candy or scardy cats being stuck on halloween.

Yet another dragon banner just distract from possibilities such as Mae dragging Boey to spooky events, Lysithea getting to indulge her sweet tooth at the expense of getting a fright, or Boyd coming to join Rolf for Halloween.

[Jotari]

28 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The Halloween banner is coming up next month. I hope they ditch the Dragon theme and go for more suitable characters. Older characters taking kids trick or treating, sweet loving characters gathering candy or scardy cats being stuck on halloween.

Yet another dragon banner just distract from possibilities such as Mae dragging Boey to spooky events, Lysithea getting to indulge her sweet tooth at the expense of getting a fright, or Boyd coming to join Rolf for Halloween.

For a while now I've wanted to see them just add Jeddah and his daughters on the Halloween banner. Because their designs are already so goofy as it is, they might as well be characters from some kind of PG13 Halloween movie.

[Etrurian emperor]

47 minutes ago, Jotari said:

For a while now I've wanted to see them just add Jeddah and his daughters on the Halloween banner. Because their designs are already so goofy as it is, they might as well be characters from some kind of PG13 Halloween movie.

Personally I want Jedah for the summer banner. Given he's among the few Fire Emblem dads with four children its safe to say the Rigelians probably find him a total stud . As such he'd be perfect swimsuit material. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Etrurian emperor

[Fire Emblem Fan]

The only dragon character I still want to see on the Halloween banner is Nils. Aside from that, yeah, letting go of the dragon theme would be preferred.